Auroxis

Making Tanker more of a DPS class doesn't make it more unique, it does the opposite. If your suggestion relies on certain AoE's being extremely weak then the AoE's should be fixed on all classes. Target caps are often never reached on tight cones, you know that otherwise you wouldn't suggest increasing their radius/arc/range. So making tankers reach those caps reliably while other classes can't increases the Tanker's effective damage against packs. I already made my suggestion. Just because I point you out doesn't mean others are free from moderation. Toxicity is never a valid response I'm not here to silence you or be offended. I'm here to have a discussion free of toxicity that could derail it and turn it into an insult-slinging waste of time that you as a Dev wouldn't want to read through.

To expand on the Attune concept, I suggest this: Training Origin Enhancements will basically be Attuned IO's with a max level of 10. Dual Origin Enhancements will basically be Attuned IO's with a max level of 20. This keeps SO's relevant since they're more powerful, DO's become a "safety net" of sorts if you overlevel, and TO's are brought back to relevancy while staying true to their purpose.

They were, the best current pets seem to be Banished Pantheon. But Cims are still up there and are less visually intrusive.

Not a fan of losing perma Soul Drain, also the Soul Mastery version has more cast time and less radius. But I can see why you'd dislike waiting on Clarion to cast Farsight. I do like playing around with the Hybrid slot though, stuff like Melee/Assault Hybrids are perfectly viable. Support is just nice for the endurance stability it brings and the extra damage+tank for lore pets and your team.

I made a fully optimized widow on Justin to test it out: The damage is about on par with an MA/Bio Scrapper, but not on par with TW/Bio. If you want DPS, go with TW/Bio Scrapper. If you want DPS with some nice team buffs on the side, go with Night Widow.

-res debuffs aren't a problem with your suggestion, the problem with your suggestion is neglecting the support aspect of Tanker (which it clearly has, as evidenced by better debuff numbers and Bruising) and making it more like a Brute by making specific radius/range/arc (not sweeping like damage scale) changes to 20-40 AoE powers. You can disagree with numbers if you want, but making AoE's hit more targets means your AoE's are dealing more damage to the pack. Never once have I argued that it'd make Tankers somewhat OP when compared with brutes, but that you're just making the Tanker more like a Brute instead of expanding on its support aspect which makes it more like, well, a Tanker. And that the more it resembles a brute, the more you'll see cries about it being OP even though it might not be. Let's consider that circumstance. You could: 1. Buff the damage effectively with a mechanic like you suggest This helps the class in solo scenarios and puts it in direct competition with a Brute. 2. Buff the damage scale up a bit, and buff the support numbers This helps the class in solo scenarios (which tankers right now do not need, since their damage modifier isn't that low) and lets it shine more in its other role of being an offensive support class. 3. Buff the support numbers up a lot This slightly helps the class in solo scenarios but greatly helps make it a valuable member of a team. You're trying to make me say a damage buff is fine, but in actuality the case for buffing the AT's support aspect just looks more appealing Powers are already inconsistent in what? damage/debuff scale? that's the easiest thing to adjust since it's global to the class. The snipe change isn't changing each power individiaully, it's a sweeping change to the mechanic of snipes and their damage scale mechanic as a whole. You're not asking for a sweeping change, you're asking for a dev to spend time inspecting each and every attack with an AoE component and buffing it in either its radius/range/arc. Then implementing that change. Then testing that change. For about 20-40 powers.

Then buff it. No need to make the buff tanker-only. Making AoE's have more radius/range/arc doesn't reward positioning, it makes it less needed. And please avoid statements like "if you could manage to put 2 and 2 together" which add nothing but toxicity to the discussion. An example of positioning actually being rewarded is Cross Punch, which gives you a higher recharge buff the more targets you managed to hit with your tight cone. Tankers have lots of tools to deal with AoE aggro between Gauntlet, Taunt, Taunt Auras, their own AoE's, and PPP AoE's with a taunt component. Why do you think people are requesting increased aggro caps? Again, increasing Radius/Arc/Range on their attacks does way more for their damage output than aggro control. What +inf/like cycle? Why is this even relevant to discussion? Why even point stuff like this out? "People like my suggestion" isn't a valid response, just like "your opinions suck" isn't. Now you're not just being dismissive, you're also being toxic.

So? Are you implying that there's too few instances of that? Wouldn't that suggest you'd be on board with increasing the number of instances where a tanker can provide more offensive support to the team? I disagree with the statement that tankers aren't fun. I agree with the statement that tankers are underpowered. I dislike the idea of buffing their damage to address that, because Support is also part of the tanker's identity and it's being neglected in your suggestion in favor of making it (effectively) more of a damage dealer. I suggest you avoid making statements like that in the future and keep the discussion on point rather than lead it to toxicity. I did post an idea in giving the tanker more offensive team support. And I put forth reasoning why I believe that's the best idea, which you haven't responded to at all. It's effectively giving the Tanker more damage, which makes it more like a Brute. You may not think it's complicated to inspect, design, and change the radius, arc and range of about 20-40 AoE powers. You may not think it's complicated to have the AoE radius/arc/range inconsistent across AT's. But I do. It's not about being overpowered, it's about encroaching on another AT's identity and wasting the potential of an AT's design space when making balance changes. Though the more you make Tanker like a Brute, the more you could hear Brutes complaining even if a Tanker isn't OP. Complaints like "Tankers have bruising and better armor, and now my tanker friend is clearing faster than me!" could crop up, though as I said before that's far from my primary concern with your suggested changes. You may have misunderstood my intention. I'm not saying tanker debuffs are super powerful, but rather I'm saying that tanker debuffs are an indication that the class is oriented more towards support than just being a brute-like "tank and spank". Changes should be made expanding on the team offensive support aspect rather than the "tank and spank" aspect. Perhaps the reason why there are very few options for modifying AoE's is because it's difficult to code? Perhaps Rending Flurry being essentially two different powers in one isn't as easy to implement as you might think?

I think there's merit behind the suggestion. The level up process is faster than ever before, but until 22/27 where attuned IO's become a thing you're wasting time by fiddling with TO's and DO's. I don't think they should be removed, but how about making them attuned?

There is room for change, but upping the damage is just one way to change things. In my opinion it wastes potential of the Tanker's identity set forth by the devs and makes it just more like a Brute. We can agree to disagree, that's fine. There's Staff's Eye of the Storm, an AoE with -res (with perfection) that a tanker gets higher values for.

You may just be under-valuing the damage a tanker can deal. A 2x Rage SS Tanker isn't dealing that much worse damage than an equivalent Brute (about 30-40% less), and that's before bruising and pseudo-pet damage caps. I'm not saying your suggestion is bad, just that I think it's a waste of design space the devs have given the class. I think the best examples I can give are Kinetic Melee (more -DMG), Titan Weapons (more -Res), and Street Justice (more -Res). It definitely isn't consistent across the board, but the most meaningful debuffs are better on a Tanker. That's just for attack sets mind you, the armors have better debuffs as well but you could argue that since it's the Tanker's primary it should be that way regardless.

The tools given to the AT have a direct correlation between what the devs were trying to accomplish with said AT. Giving Tankers more AoE radius/range/target cap does way more for their damage than it does for their debuffs, it definitely encroaches on Brutes territory. By the way Tankers also have better debuff numbers, further insinuating their intended support role.

What about Bruising then? What about staying alive? What about Gauntlet? You shouldn't ignore the design space of a class when performing balance changes. Tankers are clearly more oriented towards support than Brutes, judging by their inherent bonuses. If even someone as experienced as you only sees them as a "getting mob attention and hitting stuff in the face" class, clearly the changes should be about accentuating the class's support aspect rather than trying to make it more like a Brute?

What is "the same thing" here exactly?

From reading this thread, there are in general several different types of suggestions: 1. Aggro sustain buff I think a dev has specifically stated that aggro cap is a global thing, and making it AT-specific would be difficult to do. Increasing the magnitude of Tanker taunt effects and buffing some under-performing sets like Willpower would be a welcome change though. 2. Self offensive buff This to me treads too much into Brute territory, whether it be by increasing the damage cap or giving extra damage buffs/recharge mechanics. 3. Self defensive buff I don't think Tankers need this at all, their numbers are far ahead of Brutes already (especially once you factor stacked ATO procs). And with IO'd out builds in incarnate trials the extra mitigation is rarely noticed over Brutes. 4. Defensive team support This is an interesting approach, but in my eyes aggro management is what tankers should be about when it comes to supporting their team defensively. 5. Offensive team support My preferred approach. Bruising could be buffed so it stacks from multiple tankers (unless that's already the case in i25), and the debuff numbers could be increased. Though to me a tanker is a "team leader" in the classical sense (Captain America, Superman), and should be given some team offensive buffs rather than just debuffing an enemy. However when implementing this you need to be careful not to make the offensive buffs affect the Tanker itself too much (if at all) so as to not encroach onto Brute territory (as stated above regarding self offensive buffs).

97% is enough but sometimes the game bugs out and doesn't have the insta-snipe circled orange. Try firing it anyway and see what happens.

As expensive as you want it to be. You can make a 200 mil build and be perfectly adequate, or go for a 1+ bil overkill monstrosity: Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.1 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build!

If you choose to go with Melee Hybrid instead of Support Hybrid you get additional mez protection, but you lose out on stuff like team utility, damage (especially on lore pets) and endurance discount.

Outside of Clarion Farsight the build also has Perma Soul Drain for ToHit. However I wouldn't rely on it for ToHit because it takes a while before you perma it, and it compels you to get into melee range every 30 seconds which sometimes isn't an option (like, imagine if you're trying to finish off a runner and Soul Drain duration ends). As for the Mez protection, remember we have Rune of Protection as well to give very good CC protection coverage.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Natural Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(15), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(19) Level 1: Jab -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(3) Level 2: Resist Physical Damage -- ImpArm-ResPsi:30(A) Level 4: Haymaker -- Hct-Dmg:50(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(5), Hct-Dam%:50(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(29) Level 6: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A) Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(9), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(34) Level 10: Dull Pain -- Prv-Absorb%:50(A), Prv-Heal:50(11), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(13), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(33), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(33) Level 12: Resist Energies -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam:50(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(25), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(33) Level 14: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc:50(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(27), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(40) Level 16: Cross Punch -- Arm-Dam%:50(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(37), Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Arm-Dmg:50(46) Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(29), ShlWal-Def:50(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Rct-ResDam%:50(45) Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(27) Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(36) Level 24: Resist Elements -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam:50(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(25) Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(42), ShlWal-Def:50(43), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(43) Level 28: Rage -- HO:Membr(A) Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-Def:50(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(46) Level 32: Super Speed -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A) Level 35: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(36), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), ShlWal-Def:50(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40) Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erd-Dmg:30(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(42) Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc:50(A) Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Knock%:50(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg:50(50), Rgn-Dmg:50(50) Level 47: Taunt -- Range-I:50(A) Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(50) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Clr-Stlth:50(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(11), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(17) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(17) Level 50: Agility Core Paragon Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment ------------

Sounds weird, maybe you're casting Farsight before Clarion? The original build didn't have as much AoE defense, the build you see in the OP now is the changed one with AoE defense.

Keep in mind any Stalker pylon time could be up to 20% below actual values, due to the inherent giving a big crit chance boost while in teams (+3% per nearby teammate).

Here's my take on it. Hardcapped S/L resists, softcapped defenses, perma pets, and taunt. It's less of a stand back and cone crab and more of an in-your-face and tank crab. Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build!

I've already stated why I believe your notion of endgame not fitting well with Soul Drain and Fire Ball is incorrect. You're free to state your opinion, but don't state it as fact and as if you know the endgame better than me or anyone else.

Both Soul Drain and Fireball are 15ft radius, deal good damage and have some other perks like a -res proc and tons of +damage on Soul Drain, and a fast cast time on Fireball. If you think those AoE's are only useful in farms and wanna argue for your Ice Blast Power Mastery Corruptor, please do it in your own thread instead of derailing this one.