Monos King

There's literally hundreds of minor-arc missions and actual arcs not in Ouro though. I'd rather try and see if this actually does constitute a fundamental change, and get shut down for that reason than assume. If adding to ouro is easier, I'm down for that, but I don't have reason to think universally removing the out-leveling of the contact as a feature would be more difficult than individually tracking and adding every single arc that isn't in ouro; there's a lot. I also think there was a reason all of them weren't added to ouro, though it's just a theory. What's added to Ouro will be for everyone universally anyway, origin and arcs played regardless, and at least in my vision of this request I would like to see some of the reward for unlocking contacts and completing arcs maintained. You know, you finish the arc and you have the opportunity to do another contacts once you're introduced. Adding them all to ouro would just practically remove the point of contact progression entirely. The idea above just prevents the achievement of unlocking a contact in of itself from becoming useless once you hit a higher level. You have greater general option of arcs to play at 50, but only depending on what you were doing up until that point. I'm again willing to concede if the removal of the level limit is too much of a task, but I'd like to see if it actually is. I think this would be really convenient, and without whatever gripes come with additional sources of rewards from adding things to ouro.

Yeah gotta hard no to everything you just said dawg. Think I made my point pretty clear already too. I'll let someone else take the wheel from here.

I will note though, that it should be well known to you that I am not in favor of making things superfluously easy. I invite you to step back and look at what exactly is being made easier here, tell me exactly how it's an issue. I'm aware that XP lock exists. It just doesn't do what the OP is asking for. Think of it as a renovation. A qol option to go back, from later levels, and discover things you might not have known you would have had interest in. There are many, many great stories not included in ouroboros that fall short of players eye, unappreciated due to the race to level 50. A change like this would increase the chances of those arcs not being missed, and a step closer cultivating an appreciation of stories many might overlook. And those that do want to do them can do so without worrying about hindering their level growth. Just having the option goes a long way. The OPs not even calling for the removal of level gates altogether. Just that you get to complete the stories of an already unlocked contact. What's the problem with that?

Well, we don't have to agree on this one. Can't say I'm gonna see your reasoning though. No problem there.

Well, not really though. It isn't life, it's a game. If the convenience can apply to a lot of people, and it doesnt negatively impact performance, steal spotlight from a playstyle, or disrupt game balance, then there really isn't any reason not to implement the convenience besides the possibility of it being more trouble that it's worth. I don't know the inner workings of this game myself, so that might actually be a real possibility we'll all have to come to terms with, but XP lock itself was instated as a convenience, and it clearly has its limitations within that intended function. So, the OPs point stands. You probably missed this point, but there are a LOT of arcs that exist and aren't included in ouroboros. As such: It's really just a qol thing. It's not specific to any playstyle, or appeal of a powers, or anything. It's just there to make it easier to follow through in arcs you might not want to miss, without worrying about carefully tracking your progress and slowing your level rate. It opens up stories to people who may have missed them otherwise. It increases, not guarantees, the ability to get cool temporary abilities you might have missed out on. XP and Merits disabled. I can't see any reason not to implement this one Doc, well besides the aforementioned possibility it'll actually be a code catastrophe.

I'm pretty sure some of the older, less interactive contacts are, yeah. And even if there weren't, there should be. There's sadly a bunch of arcs and missions that aren't on Ouroboros. What's added to Ouro is pretty general, including contacts your origin might not even be able to unlock, so the really obscure contacts or hyper specific arcs aren't there. Ouro is kinda there so you can't miss out on key story arc badges, I think. Rather than suggest they add all missions to Ouroboros, I think the OPs idea of just not out leveling a contact once you've obtained it would be simpler.

This is true, but what happens often is you're doing an arc and accidentally level outside of the range, and then plop -- can't do that arc anymore. If you were a noob just doing missions and didn't know that you could over level your contact, it really sucks. It's especially infuriating when it's one you were pretty immersed in the story of, or you were seeking to get a certain badge, temp, what not. Not everyone knows to put the XP lock on, and if they realize it too late that's kind of it. It's also true not everyone is trying to slow down their natural progression rate soley for the sake of finishing the storyline, and I can't think of a good reason why they would have to. It doesn't impact game balance in anyway. But a sudden cut off can be a huge irritation, especially if you were for instance, thematically or otherwise after a non-ouro temporary power, because cut offs mean you just got permanently screwed. Sure, really careful planning might prevent that (if you know about XP lock) but should that really be necessary? If you got the contact, you should keep it. There are already a good deal of missions that let you finish the arc they give you even if you go outside of the level range, but just won't introduce you to a new contact or give you XP/ enhancements from doing their stuff. I can't see why it shouldn't be that way for every contact; it would be much more convenient. Getting cut off of an arc half-way seems silly, you should at the very least be able to finish it regardless of level, even if it doesn't give XP or merits anymore. I'm in favor of this completely; if you outleveled them you don't get XP or corresponding level enhancements or anything but you oughtta be able to see things through.

Well, we luckily aren't in the business of ruling out suggestions just because it might be difficult. Might not be too. Besides, color palette overhaul and adding/designing new pieces aren't really the same thing. Either way, it'd be cool to put might to right and put it out there to see how many are in favor of it. And even if it is arduous, we might still get it eventually. Might as well show the good devs how much we want it!

That's cool and all but yeah let's get long robes/kilts for men.

I'm just gonna post the desirable now. I want this.

Blistering Cold doesn't do damage though @Rathulfr

In other games, necromancer is a class sort of like archetypes in this game. I wonder if this calls for a new age of heavy primary specific mastermind customization? Hmmmm...

Guys, we need more kilts. We need draping, robe like lower garments, and a lot of them! Ornate tunics, elegant and long Grecian chitons, practically anything of Arabic inspiration, things that are cool! The kilts are maybe the one lacking aspect of customization in this game, and the only ones we really get are the plain tunic and the circle of thorns kilt. These are cool, but obviously not fit for every villainous or virtuous vision. It might not be a competition, but we can't let something like DCUO one up us on this, they are but CoHs disciple. We need more drapey leggings. Particularly for males. Who's with me!

Well, if you're not engaging before each encounter, this wouldn't change anything except make the soloing a bit faster. You'd just wait less before jumping in next.

Mercenaries first summon "Soldiers" comes with two soldiers and a medic. Using the t1 upgrade "Equip Mercenary" is supposed to upgrade the two soldiers from merely using ASMG Burst to also using ASMG Heavy Burst. However, you will find that the Soldiers Do Not use the ASMG Heavy Burst Ability, and instead will, rarely, use the t2 Upgrade move Assault Rifle Heavy Burst, and only at the beginning of combat. This means that Soldiers are lacking an entire power up until level 32. The soldiers will, unreliably and only at the beginning of combat, use the errant ability Assault Rifle Heavy Burst, despite its 6 second recharge. As such, using Equip Mercenary has no effect on Soldiers. This explains a good deal of lower level DPS complaints for the Primary (though the set is also overall notably lacking). You can see the likely culprit of this issue within the Detailed info of Equip Mercenary.

This Knight is aesthetically errant.

Yes! I love the idea of mez protection auras. I don't think it would undermine support secondaries either (someone's gonna say it) and would definitely given the likes of /poison or nin something to covet. In fact, do you remember the taunt protection aura? That one should be made into a mez protection anyway. I don't think anyone uses it. The +1 aura is also a really neat concept. That would be great for the underling pets.

Well, maybe I'm missing things. I'm glad the conversation is happening though, keep up the suggestions!

@Naraka Okaaaaayyy...when the same conversation or related concepts have happened elsewhere, it's not uncommon to cite the thread. There's a huge compilation of ideas related to MMs, and so on MM threads, I cite related information from it. It just so happens to be mine. I'm really lost as to where you came from with a lot of what you just said. And for what it's worth, I just want all of the suggestions to be in one place so we can all get what we want. You know we're trying to get threads stickied right now anyway, right? It's way more convenient. You might want to just message me lol I wouldn't mind sorting out a lot of the misconceptions you have here. I'm pretty sure I said I don't disagree with this suggestion many times in this thread. And I am commenting on this very thread to give it more attention. Just like I am adding it to my list to give it more attention. If we weren't having discussions like this, another idea would have disappeared or been taken less seriously. Even if I disagree with his reasons, I'm still just trying to get the idea noticed more. And come on. I brought up survivability for the same reason you did. Was I too vague? I was saying that survivability improvements would offset the need of endurance improvements like the ones suggested here. Because those very endurance improvements were being proposed in light of quick pet death that was convincing the OP to go an attack route and resummoning endurance struggles like what you observed. So I brought up things that have been said in the past to give reference to my statements now. I'm just saying, if I had to choose a change to be made to solve the same matter, I'd like it to be one of the survivability improvements that people have suggested, and not something related only to personal attacking.

Uh right. We completely agree. He just wants these changes to happen so he can play a pet based AT with less pets and more attacking. It's the equivalent of wanting to play a scrapper with just Focus, and then asking for Focus to get buffed is what I'm saying. You could make a ranged scrapper, it just won't be good. I'm not opposed to this change, he just needs to know that even if these changes do come across, he will still be terribly ineffective. If he's doing it thematically, then the high end wouldn't be much of an issue, but that's clearly not the case. He's talking performance. As you know I'm pushing for a pool of changes and improvements to t1 survivability, but even with how squishy they are now, attempting to seriously play without them is terrible. If the logic is "they are weak so let's make MMs attacks more effective in some way so I can play without them" I'd just refer them to making the pets not weak rather than promote a play style that's for another AT, and intrinsically less effective for MMs.

Yeah but he wants to play the class effectively neglecting t1 pets and focusing on the attack powers. Regardless, that was just a little bit of advice to you @plainguy because you won't be effective going the route you're going for even if the endurance changes you want are released to the dot. I'm not against changes like this at all. Your reasoning is just not going to get you anywhere.

Well, you're a fellow mastermind so I don't mind emphasizing. But no, he's completely right. It's just basic logic, the attacks aren't that good and they aren't that good because they aren't the focus. Speaking of, let's look at claws. Claws has a ranged move called Focus. It isn't bad, but just because Claws offers it doesn't mean it's going to be comparable to the abilities that are the focus of the powerset. The game has a lot of abilities, that doesn't mean they will all be good. Flurry isn't. Arcane bolt isn't. Whirlwind isn't. Almost no one gets power push. Many moves are available for thematic reasons, or just so you can involve yourself when other things are happening. Mastermind attack powers fall into that category. They are thematic additions that serve to give you some participation while the pets murder everything, but playing with those are your main moves is no different that focusing on Hurl as a brute or Focus as a Claws scrapper. I don't imagine you'll go around trying to Kick and Cross Punch mobs as a Defender if you don't have a death wish either. What you prefer to do is not compatible with the archetype you chose to play. If you do so with that knowledge it's fine, but you can't expect changes to be made soley to make your extremely inhibiting style slightly better.

@TheSpiritFox You're gonna laugh but I actually want them to be the size of Behemoth Overlords Hahahaha I hate when those inferior demons look down upon mine. I haven't known anything related to this to be an issue before you brought it up, and the ability of other players to move through pets should remedy all of the potential performance issues from larger pets. Any MM will make screens become a lot more busy though; a team not ok with that probably shouldn't invite an MM or an illusion controller or a plant controller or anyone who uses a lot of temp pets. It's rarely a problem (especially since all MM pets die instantly if they're on screen too long anyway *cough* see wishlist devs *cough*). You should also keep in mind demons actually don't provide more screen pressure than other sets because they are in possession of the smallest pets anyway. Demonlings are negligible so it's pretty much mostly demon prince and Demons anyone would ever see. They aren't so bad. You might have missed that: the pets can already clip through other people. This was newly added so I wouldn't be surprised that you had, but it's been a thing for a tad. Also elaborate on your Go To issue, I'm not familiar with what you're reporting there. I don't even have that issue with the Cataphract and Ravager lore pets, and they are vastly larger than the Lieutenant demons. However, from a cosmetic standpoint, I can see this being desirable and fun. Along with demon size increases and customization of the summoning visuals. I'll make sure to add that request to the cosmetic section of the wishlist when I get around to it.

I'm with you on this one, and the proposed nanite changes will do exactly that. And update for @AgentForest , perhaps they are instead given temporary Untouchable while dispersed, and to account for the thematic lowered effectiveness, offer +regen instead of the heal over time while in said state.

I think the assumption has been that there was a nanite colony at play (if there were still so few they were nano-scaled and not as visible as bulk materials , the benefits would be correspondingly diminutive). With that in mind, I chose to have them be attackable because that would make them pets. Being pets improves enhancement IO options, and maintains a deal of caution during play as they can die. A bunch of extra potent heals could be over-effective without these considerations, but you are right about nanites being really tiny clusters in this case. They are going to be frail (low health), so I think that they could be given either a placate or what Necro Ghosts get and given an intangible the first time they are taken to half health, as they disperse. However, while dispersed, they won't offer the heal (colony can't work together in such a state) which is already handled since intangible targets can't interact with others. Edit: Another important thing to keep in mind is, pets are scarcely to be at full health while combat is ensuing. BG mode sends them damage constantly, and AoEs may get them. The nanites might stay stuck on the same robot. I think if we went with an idea similar to yours, the nanites would have to heal by priority; which pet is lowest in health.