Monos King

Lol no the original idea was to remove the other 4 auras and put it into the upgrades, a concept which would transform into whatever the community decided it would be. Expedient and Sovereign are recharge intensive, not ATOs. If everyone decided doing it with solely the defensive ATOs would be better overall, I would be in favor of that. I'm fine with any useful degree of buff in the equips. I know that putting the other 4 into equip and upgrade would save 4 tax slots. A lot of people seem in favor of that, and having the current auras replaced with procs of some kind. I wasn't aware any troller pets actually needed the auras; they have way higher survivability. But if they did, that could just be fixed by leaving recharge intensive pet IOs the way they are, but removing the option to slot them in masterminds. Players that actually used the Rech Intensive enhancements would find themselves able to use the new Upgrade Integral Pets IOs which have the same set bonuses and come with procs like what I mentioned on page one. If we are keeping the non ATO res and def auras, these would come in resistance, def, and damage set's and be slottable in henchmen equips and the henchmen summons. This seems like a lot more though, especially since controll pets are quite strong. Between the higher base resistances and the controller/doms ability to CC enemies and buff, I was under no impression any troller was in need of those auras. And in this case they would get an assortment of procs instead.

Ohhhh you'll have to forgive me, I didn't quite understand what you were saying at the time. I think I get it now; I believe you are saying that the slot would be used for the IO is usually used for -end enhancement, right? This could be easily remedied by simply reducing the endurance cost. That's a great suggestion on your part. And with these changes going through (higher survivability of pets through equip buffs, level being the same as caster) in combat summoning and requipping should be lower anyway. Sorry bout that. You kind of lost me here. The IO's I was referring to were the non-existing proposed IOs that would go into the newly buffed equip powers. Naturally, as the change to make equips add def and res were to replace the current auras (besides the ATO), the current aura's would cease to provide def/res buffs and would do something else. I would like to see them converted into procs or something, but I think that's something for us all to discuss.

Oh yeah no doubt. The protectors and enforcers get their +def by the first equip though right? I'm not against this idea by a long shot, definitely just needs more player reception to decide. If everyone ends up liking that I'm all for it.

lol that is correct. You would also not be getting a ranged damage buff, a heal buff, a chance to crit, higher hold magnitude, or any other specificity of playing a mastermind that other archetypes receive. Because we weren't discussing end reduction. You can always point out what wasn't being discussed, but you can't just slide it in as if that were relevant to the subject matter in any way. That would best be left for a separate reply. I'm going out of my way to make note of these issues with your suggestions because such suggestions will simply never occur; not on a server concerned with any sort of balance or connection to the original game that people chose to play. Calls to remove the main handicaps/nuances of classes will be totally ignored 100% of the time, unless there was lasting grounds for contention like the damage difference between brutes and tanks. We can't do that because it would start to impede on the relevance of buffs secondaries. Otherwise we couldn't let them be enhanceable, and the idea for the new IO set pretty much dies. I think this is an interesting idea, although it definitely depends on the playstyle. Generally, it would be bettter to get the pets sooner because of how much less damage the extra pet makes you take in bodyguard mode.

Hmmm. I think your misunderstanding the change in how they would be from how they are. There is really no way that these change would continue the pattern of slot taxing, I had removing slot tax in mind specifically when I proposed them. We aren't catering to your specific play style or personal feelings about what you'll feel pressed to do when your pets die. We're trying to remedy the general shortcomings and get necessary buffs. We're improving what has been; you're pretty much saying that even if we do improve, your going to want your pets even stronger so now it's a penalty to do so. That's just preference. That's ok, you can slot for that, but we can't consider that preference with archetype/enhancement wide changes. Here's the gist of it. Right now, you need to clear 6 slots for aura buffs that are mandatory for pet survival. With the training buff change: Res/def aura buffs split between the two Equip and Upgrade training abilities All powers have one slot by default, thus even one invention enhancement will be a straight *buff* to the existing numbers from the proposed mandatory lower values. Proposed new IO set will maintain existing aura strength as well as provide possibility for debuff res or something of that nature As compared to now: 4 slots saved (archetype origins wont be changed) If you decide that you want even more res/def on your pets and decide to slot the equips further with that in mind, that is not a mandatory slit; it's ordinary slotting. But if this went through, it would be, with one enhancement, the same strength auras, no cost, available far earlier, room for new IOs. As far as I know, we all agree that the current values of auras are quite good. Hence why they are considered tax to begin with.

Can't say I'm in favor of those changes, I like the involvement of MMs. Also it would kind of just be removing one of the inherent trade-offs of the set, it's kind of like having all of a defenders buffs be automatic because it's tedious to do that and attack debuff as well. It's just apart of the archetype, I'd rather get necessary hard buffs and IO compatibility improvements. They wouldn't be enhanceable in Supremacy. They would just be present, in the same way the dmg and to hit buffs are. Low levels very rarely even have access to the auras anyway, so it should just be generally more effective. There wouldn't be any need to waste slots for the auras, or money/merits. They would, however, be enhanceable when put into the equip/training powers, which would hopefully come with new IOs like the ones I had proposed. I'm more fond of this idea than the built into supremacy idea now.

I don't know about all that, but may I would love to see your opinions on the proposals listed here: I happen to like the feeling of progression with training the pets each time, and if some of the changes listed above go through you'll definitely want to be applying them personally anyway.

Whoa, you actively consider slows from an ice blaster in your gameplay? That's really impressive. As I stated before though, it's practically negligible. Both slow and end drain on the blast route are overshadowed by damage until the effects stack. Elec actually gets a big debuff with short circuit, making it technically better at debuffing, even. I don't recall Frost Breath or the Ice Rain power offering any significantly better slow. And even if the supposed imbalance were true, these changes would just shift -end from purportedly lacking to intensely better than something like slow until it also gets a buff. And the cycle continues elsewhere. I mean imagine blasters, who can already be considered lords of the pitch and the most coveted, entering a room and not only dying the floors red but leaving the survivors utterly helpless, because their secondary effect is now essentially a CC. Slows don't stop recharge. Once you get the enemies bar down though, that's a wrap. The advantage difference warrants the initial difference in value between slow and -end. Buutttt I'm a big fan of both the critical drainage and the ideas you just suggested in concept. If I'm choosing one I think won't set any ill precedent or have repercussions, I would really like to see your recovery scourge suggestion.

I second this heavily!

On the released servers, clicking on a power will activate the combat-only aura, which is of course useful when you want to show off your aura. Even if no hostiles are nearby, simply clicking on an attack move will cause the aura to initiate. This is not currently the case on beta, and the auras deactivate immediately after defeating a hostile rather than the usual few seconds of activation afterwards.

It's worth noting that, again I'm not opposed to critical drainage, but the reasoning for it's necessity seems like it might be going down an iffy road.

I don't see any issue with that because of how total and perfect full end drain is. Slow is a good comparison because it also comes with two effects; -speed and -rech and the strong end drains come with -end and -recovery. A blaster using ice blast could be said to do the same; that -rech isn't going to mean anything at all until it stacks a lot and by then the enemy is usually dead. But like elec, it will shine fully on more durable enemies. This is because the two of them are not CCs. They aren't in the same category as holds, stun, immobilize, sleep, the like. So we shouldn't be comparing them to things like holds at all I don't think. They just happen to be disabling of offenses in the same way -res and -def is disabling of defenses. For what end drain is, it is great. Once I get an enemy down to zero end they are staying there essentially no matter what, whereas with holds things like immunities or protections have the ability to play in. That's -ends advantage. And end technically does have an affect before full drainage, although this is highly mitigated by NPC low end costs. Certain abilities should be costing too much endurance to use even before drainage. I think what should happen is that NPCs get a decent +recovery buff, but their powers, especially strong ones or buffs, start taking A LOT more end. The +recovery would be there to offset the new end costs and prevent even non drainers from quickly exhausting NPCs as well as to make the -recovery of elec more pronounced in it's usefulness, and then -end would start to see more use as at even half end lieutenants and minions would see themselves unable to activate more end heavy abilities.

I like the critical drain idea, but I think endurance drain is plenty fine how it is now. I'm pretty sure the bigger issue is that everything is obligatorily put through the helpless-death test where if it isn't 2 second killing after a quick hold it's deemed useless because damage is king and holds are uber accessible. "Can it kill them...now?" This kind of becomes a game difficulty conversation once it's viewed from that lense. Have you guys specced high -end moves? It's debilitating, Thunderous Blast alone can leech an EB end instantly and render everyone more helpless to status effects if they ran toggles. Electrical blast otherwise is in the same zone as other blasts with debuffs; the debuff is secondary and minor. It wouldn't make sense to give it a critical drainage off of the power alone (maybe doms and trolls) just as it wouldn't make sense to give ice blast critical slows. And various enemies have high immunity to literal immunity to slows. Holds are the ultimate CC when potent, we aren't going to get every debuff there. I'm with @Yomo Kimyata , they are potent in different scenarios. I for one like total drainage more than holds, and continuously comparing everything to damage life4ever and hold-haven is probably going to cause issues since those are way too effective in the current game, to a point of spawning debates.

Can you even do that right now? What's the absorb cap, I know it's not all that. @Tyrannical Granted it could be changed, but this seems like a lot just to update powers for conceptual reasons; especially when doing so without theoretically harming their efficiency in the HP -> Absorb transfer involves large ticks of re-applied absorb that isn't really thematically appropriate to begin with. I'm really all for keeping HP powers the way they are now. Let's not forget you can hasten the reapplication of simple HP buffs through healing, whereas separate absorbs hardly overlap and can only be strengthened through another +absorb. What I'm saying is, if I cast frostwork on a pet for instance, I can have it maintain the benefit through simple healing. I can heal the increased health. But if frostwork were an absorb with +regen and an absorb over time tick, once that absorb gets blown off I can't really do anything to give back the benefit. The best I could do is wait the downtime to recast the buff. All of that is assuming the new frostwork operated like Spirit Bastion, where the absorb doesn't stack. If the absorb did stack, and eventually climbed up to the initial absorb buff, this would be a straight buff.

Don't know if recent changes screwed with his AI, but the Demon Prince waits about 3-4 seconds before attacking randomly but consistently, despite the fact his powers have recharged. Reduces overall damage from demons greatly.

So, in light of Electrical Affinity and all the new degrees of debilitating -end that's going to unleash, I want to bring up something underperforming in PvP. Slows Slows just aren't worth their salt in PvP. -Movement doesn't seem to do a single thing over there, and every other IO comes with slow res to only heighten the issue. Now, I don't know whatever pretenses caused PvP IOs to all come with heaps of slow res, so I won't have any complaints there. Especially since if these changes go through, it won't be an issue as much anyway. Let's take a second to consider: Reducing the PvP rech res cap to 95% in line with all the other debuff res Increasing the strength of -movement debuffs on debuff-centered powers for PvP, similar to what currently happens with -regen debuffs like Heat Exhaustion or Envenom I think that's fair. Everyone goes zipping about in zones right now, kiting and the likes, usually blasters, and controllers have little relevance outside of very specific scenarios. I think starting with making slows actually MEAN something would be a good first step in allowing all the archetypes to have a degree of relevancy again. Obviously, we aren't going to see trolls 1v1ing (competent) blasters or scrappers like ever, but not everything is a 1v1. One of masterminds biggest issues is being thrall to chase tactics, giving them something other than unreliable immobilize (which really only helps if it's web grenade anyway) wouldn't hurt at all. Frankly, the fact that people can walk around IMMUNE to a cold doms primary debuff is ridiculous, and it's no wonder people don't roll support as much in PvP. Some of my stuff can be literally ignored, and that's without the intense numbers of recharge that most PvPers jump around with. Am I wrong on this one?

May I direct you to....

I'd like to follow this statement with that while I do think the beasts do single target damage well, they should probably use some of their war-cry buffs within combat. Spit Suggestion: heavily reduce damage buff on one of the roars and give it a "bleed" or "lethal wound" proc that functions sort of like Frost Bite but with a greater damage.

Luckily, that is one of the proposals here we've been pushing for!

Well it does make sense to me, but I'm not against making some of the pool powers less suck. I did address the storm kick thing though, being a martial arts master for whatever mystical or elite means is definitely beyond the likes of just fighting. My theory is that that pool just existed to give the non-damage non melees some moves for thematic purpose before the desired res/def buffs. Or just fluff if you want an extra attack. Flurry shouldn't be as bad as it is lol, although it is pretty good in PvP. But if my theory of pools is right, since the travels were the objective that's still why flurry sucks. I know what they were trying to do; since speedsters are known to hit fast but not strong. It really does affirm they made it for thematic purpose beyond anything else, and deliberately wanted the first moves to suck, with hasten being that odd outlier. It's silly it sucks that much though. So it's likely moves are bad right now from pools because 1) their fiction deems them less potent 2) they just exist as thematic supplements (besides PvP where most of them actually do deal good damage and such). Just look at cross punch. It isn't until the final level of fighting you unlock it, and it's literally just Sweeping Cross from Street Justice with some +acc and +rech. No melee would ever actually turn in their primary moves for a pool variant, because in their current state, they aren't alternative abilities.

Well I haven't been apart of any pool power conversations before and I find it interesting so here's how I've seen the placement of pool powers. I always thought they were simply thematically potent. You know, something like hasten being really good because super speed is a much coveted, much esteemed power. The same with sorcery, which gets Rune of Protection, and presence which gets unrelenting (those last two were in the original dev plans so I include them). Then there's something like fighting, which would obviously pale in comparison to our super-powered combat like super strength or martial arts, so it sucks until the last power. I also thought most of the travels existed solely to offer transportation, and the first few powers were more like a mandatory step to sustain a sense progression in the game. Slow, steady hover as you like learned to fly. Low, lax jumps as you gained control. Utility seemed completely secondary. So while I think there are abilities other than hasten that are useful from pools, I'm pretty sure the pools that are lacking always existed for the sake of the end tier abilities, the early abilities being just progress steps. Changing that might start having a lot of pools be replacements for actual primary and secondary powers. And if that's the case, we're discussing making pools alternative abilities rather than supplemental ones, which is also an interesting conversation.

Oh, well I'd agree. No doubt. It seemed like he was taking it in a "let's make all the other leading pool powers similarly useful" direction, which is probably on the same road as power creep since that use in question is dependent on community set paradigms. Buuuttt I see that isn't the case. Ignore me hahaha

That's really only because players have made it that way, right? I don't actually need hasten for any of my builds. Depending on your priorities some abilities will be more useful than others. Hastens definitely super useful but it's not like that makes all other pools useless by comparison or that they all have to be as potent as it is.

I really like the idea of the additional pet for mercs, while I like improved serums as well. A lot of the merc suggestions seem like they would actually over-compensate for its weaknesses though, and make them pretty overpowered. It should be worth noting that I'm all for being extremely powerful, but it's probably a bit too much if more than two of those suggestions were implemented for mercs. I agree with letting passive mode split damage, but I'm fine with the current state of defensive mode, the rewards of being in defensive mode make up for the usual lack of concentrated damage. Having damage split along with "attack my target" for instance is too effective in a few instances (for instance fighting another MM), and kind of mitigates the purpose of those that use the hide in the back and let pets run in tactic, as just camping in defensive mode would always be the ideal alternative. It also makes sense, you can't really be in defensive when your ordering everyone to concentrate on damaging one person. It's a fine risk-reward for the archetype IMO.

Well, progress. Technically just back to stage 1 but with less, but it's a start. Any reason the player proc is officially removed? I think people will be happy with this.