Monos King

Absorption is the strong one. Resistance is pretty unimportant. That's why thugs aren't hyper disadvantaged always (in PvP) despite most of them having zero inherent resistances. Unless you are full on pet IO'd out and also a +def or +res power, pets will still die pretty easy when struck. And, even if you do get soft and hard caps for them with natural res/def buffs, the other 3 ways to murder an MM take place, one of which being just do a lot of damage to the master. Very few actually attack pets one by one; if 1/3rd of the masters health is chunked in quick succession, most of the pets are dead. We are in this thread discussing ways to make the MM more viable for PvP, without taking away obvious intended or thematic weaknesses. The leading few have been: -increase movement speed and range -increase pet health And that's kind of it right now. Granted, we could also make 'attack target' maintain the BG effect, but that would be ridiculous. Instead maybe the range of supremacy should be DRAMATICALLY increased.

And here's a specific changes thread for those interested.

Um no, people like PvP. Please don't peddle this opinion. It won't ever happen, but it's harmful nonetheless. You don't have to pay attention to them really, but it's a fun aspect of the game when casual.

@M3z@barrier @Epsilon Assassin If you lot want to continue discussing the PvP aspect of this I made a thread for it. The PvP side is, as noted by others, its own separate matter. https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/13330-mastermind-qol-issues-and-improvments-pvp-specific/

This thread will focus on PvP related issues to the mastermind. Note that PvP specific simply means ONLY an issue in PvP, and not that the other listed are not able to improve PvP upon revisitation. 1) Squishiness a) Player Health Weakness* Prevents player from moving away from pets b) Pet Vulnerabilities Allows pets to die easily regardless of context (see 2a,2b) and thus kills the Player c) Pet Wandering after damage Causes Player to issue commands, resetting pet aggressiveness and permitting additional damage, or simply leaves Player open to damage 2) Pet Squishiness a) Inherent Resistances Leaves pets highly vulnerable to certain types of damage b) Pet Health Makes pets extremely prone to sudden death beyond Supremacy radius Leaves pets vulnerable to burst damage death c) Pet Level Leaves pets vulnerable to damage, low health, lower damage, causes various issues as expected of color cons d) Pet Threat Level* Leaves pet(s) prone to immediate death from stronger enemies 3) PvP Specific a) Summon Recharge Time* Leaves Player vulnerable to damage after quick pet death b) Supremacy Induced Slowness Prevents player from pursuing a moving target at all without risk of two shot, supporting traveling team; must be very near slow pets c) Pet Movement Speed Prevents pets from keeping up with Player attempting to pursue or travel, prevents pets from being able to do damage to moving targets. Starred (*) issues are from my perspective inherent to the balance and theme of the archetype, and were only listed for reference. I want to pitch a few possibilities to the bigger issues. Increasing Pet Level (Issues 2a,2b,2c) This addresses 3 issues by increasing pet combat attributes accordingly. Pets at lower levels especially will die very quickly when tossed into a hoard, and should be AT LEAST Player level. They do poorly versus higher ranked enemies. Related to that, Increasing Pet Rank (2a,2b,2c) Increasing the t8 henchmen or others to pet rank strength would probably solve these issues, but I don't feel too safe on this one. Increasing Pet Benefits To Buffs (2a,1b) What I had in mind for this was an effect similar to Support Hybrid Incarnate Power. We could raise the base resistances of pets, but that wouldnt be thematic and wouldnt help much anyhow. In PvP, this would be similar to a power like Tough, where protection from everything is added. For instance, in PvP giving your henchmen Thermal Radiations Plasma Shield would provide resistance to everything, or Cold Dominations Glacial Shield would offer Elusivity and/or defense to all. Thematically? Increase Pet Movement Speed (3b,3c) This one could be done just by doing exactly as the subtitle states, but I also think that it would be cool to see henchmen bust out a thematic travel power once the attack target or owner gets a certain distance away ( zombies emerge from ground closer to target, Mercs get out jetpack , robots fly, demons and thugs might just charge) to make up ground. I would like to hear how many of these seem like legitimate issues or solutions to everyone else, as well as other problems that are observed. It isn't often there are acknowledged PvP threads.

~From Pets & Henchmen Thread~ But as end tier material should be observed separately, let's look at the mastermind shortcomings with clarity. 1) Squishiness a) Player Health Weakness* Prevents player from moving away from pets b) Pet Vulnerabilities Allows pets to die easily regardless of context (see 2a,2b) and thus kills the Player c) Pet Wandering after damage Causes Player to issue commands, resetting pet aggressiveness and permitting additional damage, or simply leaves Player open to damage 2) Pet Squishiness a) Inherent Resistances Leaves pets highly vulnerable to certain types of damage b) Pet Health Makes pets extremely prone to sudden death beyond Supremacy radius Leaves pets vulnerable to burst damage death c) Pet Level Leaves pets vulnerable to damage, low health, lower damage, causes various issues as expected of color cons d) Pet Threat Level* Leaves pet(s) prone to immediate death from stronger enemies 3) PvP Specific a) Summon Recharge Time* Leaves Player vulnerable to damage after quick pet death b) Supremacy Induced Slowness Prevents player from pursuing a moving target at all without risk of two shot, supporting traveling team; must be very near slow pets c) Pet Movement Speed Prevents pets from keeping up with Player attempting to pursue or travel, prevents pets from being able to do damage to moving targets. Starred (*) issues are from my perspective inherent to the balance and theme of the archetype, and were only listed for reference. I want to pitch a few possibilities to the bigger issues. Increasing Pet Level (Issues 2a,2b,2c) This addresses 3 issues by increasing pet combat attributes accordingly. Pets at lower levels especially will die very quickly when tossed into a hoard, and should be AT LEAST Player level. They do poorly versus higher ranked enemies. Related to that, Increasing Pet Rank (2a,2b,2c) Increasing the t8 henchmen or others to pet rank strength would probably solve these issues, but I don't feel too safe on this one. Increasing Pet Benefits To Buffs (2a,1b) What I had in mind for this was an effect similar to Support Hybrid Incarnate Power. We could raise the base resistances of pets, but that wouldnt be thematic and would probably cause problems anyhow. In PvP, this would be similar to a power like Tough, where protection from everything is added. For instance, in PvP giving your henchmen Thermal Radiations Plasma Shield would provide resistance to everything, or Cold Dominations Glacial Shield would offer Elusivity and/or defense to all. Thematically? Increase Pet Movement Speed (3b,3c) This one could be done just by doing exactly as the subtitle states, but I also think that it would be cool to see henchmen bust out a thematic travel power once the attack target or owner gets a certain distance away ( zombies emerge from ground closer to target, Mercs get out jetpack , robots fly, demons and thugs might just charge) to make up ground. I would like to hear how many of these seem like legitimate issues or solutions to everyone else.

I don't really understand why it's a bad direction or why my buffs don't "do anything". It feels like your looking at things from a circumstantial perspective instead of a mechanical one when it comes to MMs, because they really aren't anything like melee classes. At least, I don't get the comparison fully. MMs will die when you separate pets from them, or kill the pets quickly enough. You can also just brute damage them down, or burst the pets. I thought we were addressing why MMs needed to be buffed in some regard, but in PvP you seem convinced nothing will work. I'm receptive but I think I need more info. That's kind of expected for everything though, right? If you were to say insert needs a survivability nerf, it would still die from the same thing but it would take less of that thing. If you were to say "tanks don't take enough damage" and then you lowered their resistance, now they still die from damage but now its easier to do. If you were to say "stalker stealth is too high" perception is already what would have done them in, but with the nerf now less is needed. The goal isn't to make anything unkillable. Am I missing something? Edit: Nevermind I understand. I just disagree. And besides the PvP specific section, these are mostly PvE improvements I'm proposing.

I agree with @ErydanusOn how using high end statistics as a gauge is debilitating for everyone else, I shouldve noted it right after I realized it. However @M3z, judgement isnt really an issue to an MM that has destiny (although it recharges slower than judgement) and since we're assuming judgement is an availability I'll reciprocate with destiny too. One barrier nullifies pet damage entirely and if the mastermind is therm, sonic, or in some cases dark, the pets will be completely fine without even the need for destiny to begin with; the damage will be quick to heal. But as end tier material should be observed separately, let's look at the mastermind shortcomings with clarity. 1) Squishiness a) Player Health Weakness* Prevents player from moving away from pets b) Pet Vulnerabilities Allows pets to die easily regardless of context (see 2a,2b) and thus kills the Player c) Pet Wandering after damage Causes Player to issue commands, resetting pet aggressiveness and permitting additional damage, or simply leaves Player open to damage 2) Pet Squishiness a) Inherent Resistances Leaves pets highly vulnerable to certain types of damage b) Pet Health Makes pets extremely prone to sudden death beyond Supremacy radius Leaves pets vulnerable to burst damage death c) Pet Level Leaves pets vulnerable to damage, low health, lower damage, causes various issues as expected of color cons d) Pet Threat Level* Leaves pet(s) prone to immediate death from stronger enemies 3) PvP Specific a) Summon Recharge Time* Leaves Player vulnerable to damage after quick pet death b) Supremacy Induced Slowness Prevents player from pursuing a moving target at all without risk of two shot, supporting traveling team; must be very near slow pets c) Pet Movement Speed Prevents pets from keeping up with Player attempting to pursue or travel, prevents pets from being able to do damage to moving targets. Starred (*) issues are from my perspective inherent to the balance and theme of the archetype, and were only listed for reference. I want to pitch a few possibilities to the bigger issues. Increasing Pet Level (Issues 2a,2b,2c) This addresses 3 issues by increasing pet combat attributes accordingly. Pets at lower levels especially will die very quickly when tossed into a hoard, and should be AT LEAST Player level. They do poorly versus higher ranked enemies. Related to that, Increasing Pet Rank (2a,2b,2c) Increasing the t8 henchmen or others to pet rank strength would probably solve these issues, but I don't feel too safe on this one. Increasing Pet Benefits To Buffs (2a,1b) What I had in mind for this was an effect similar to Support Hybrid Incarnate Power. We could raise the base resistances of pets, but that wouldnt be thematic and would probably cause problems anyhow. In PvP, this would be similar to a power like Tough, where protection from everything is added. For instance, in PvP giving your henchmen Thermal Radiations Plasma Shield would provide resistance to everything, or Cold Dominations Glacial Shield would offer Elusivity and/or defense to all. Thematically? Increase Pet Movement Speed (3b,3c) This one could be done just by doing exactly as the subtitle states, but I also think that it would be cool to see henchmen bust out a thematic travel power once the attack target or owner gets a certain distance away ( zombies emerge from ground closer to target, Mercs get out jetpack , robots fly, demons and thugs might just charge) to make up ground. I would like to hear how many of these seem like legitimate issues or solutions to everyone else.

Hahaha yeah you're right, I realized it after I said it.

I don't know... I practically exclusively play masterminds and I can farm and solo AVs once I'm IO'd out and such. And in PvP certain builds of MM are nigh unstoppable too. If you could give some considerable suggestions I could probably see more your way, as the pets are pretty squishy generally; I'm definitely in favor of them being at least the same level as the summoner. But other improvements seem like they might quickly make MMs unmanageably powerful.

Also the window of pet aggression while in defensive mode is way too short right now. If they aren't being attacked they stop attacking in like 4 seconds instead of generally until the attacker is dead. Really inconvenient having the pets sitting there doing nothing, and not wanting to sacrifice damage sharing by putting them on 'Attack target'.

Nonono I need demons to not do that. Other than that this is awesome.

The Driver shim method seems to be outdated as of recent updates.

Maybe, but it's out of my understanding anyhow. I never thought tanks were ever supposed to be hitting hard to begin with, but apparently that's become a strife.

Because if your rolling a set like fire for instance with minor defenses of all kinds, that resistance subtraction is DEBILITATING. It's all you can do maxing out your character to reach basic damage soaking capacity compared to some other sets, once that rage crash hits it is a wrap. I roll ss/fire because I wanted to hit hard knowing the risks, and with proper building you can do pretty well. But with this "new rage" thats pretty much gone; can't hit hard if your dead. And as for the "well you could just not stack the rage" argument, others have said it already. Why would I even want it recharging fast if it just kills me.

I don't want build up, or else I'd play a different class. I play super strength because I like it how it was advertised, and while I can accept many changes I won't accept fundamental differences to its mechanics.

Except it annihilates the reason some of us play super strength in ~Brute~ archetypes.

The current update already gives you the option for perma rage with no crash luckily for you.

If nothing else, the damage resistance debuff needs to be delt away with, stat. It severely undermines being a damage soaking play style, as well as penalizes specializing your build to perma rage, which can often come with inherent trade offs anyway. Bad idea. Players have been able to skillfully plan for rage crash before, and stacking rage is just the appeal / focus of super strength. I actually don't understand this experiment at all since the old set ups only complaint was the damage subtraction anyhow; doing no damage suddenly as a tank is way better than suddenly taking a resistance debuff...especially one your just gonna repeatedly subject yourself to because you gave yourself a recharge bonus!

Has hybrid and interface incarnate abilities been fixed to properly activate? Previously hybrids primary effect wouldn't turn on at all and interface would extremely rarely for extremely short duration.

Does it matter what I name the "Program to be fixed" from the create new application fix box?

That was the first message, now it won't even let me enter as per the original driver message.

I tried before and it worked at first, but it told me I needed an update. Once I did, it didnt work again and following the directions a second time didnt help.

Is there a version for beta?