Leogunner

THERE IS NO VICTIM. You're not a victim. The team isn't a victim. The KB'er isn't a victim. Everyone's just playing the game. It's YOU who is grasping at that label. What I don't get is, there is already a vocal enough subset of people that complain about KB and stuff, most advocates of KB are already careful of it. Most n00bs are steered clear of it buy those vocal crowds. I see more players spamming AoE immobs than I see spamming AoE KB without the proc. I see more broken Bonfire users than Nova users by a mile, but the hint that a few targets got flung away and you're the victim? If I were calling anyone a victim, it'd be the people you guys scare away from every trying powers with KB. But to reiterate, there aren't any victims here, just pretenders.

It goes both ways though (which is what he was describing). Like, if I was on your team with one of my Stalkers and you decide to kick a person using KB, do you tell the rest of the team? If you do, I'd drop the team namely out of avoiding unnecessary drama (because people that uptight tend to have drama on their heels constantly). The point is, drumming up drama over something as mundane as needing to use a couple extra ST attacks seems very petty. A person with common decency saves kicking a person for things that are actually detrimental such as harassment or offensive actions/situations. Oh, and that drama could be an offensive situation, especially if the person is actually learning how to use their set and it's knockback. You're just pissing in peoples cheerios and calling it courtesy.

The issue is, you have options. You just want your cake while shoving if down your gullet. The thing is, the KB>KD proc is already pushing things. It breaks certain powers and sets that nothing is done to balance in the reverse. You should be thankful you have the proc. And if you don't like the enhancement values of the set, then obviously don't slot it. Uniques and procs have a tendency of being slotting without their whole sets....not all the time but some of the time.

Damage auras on a burst damage set is overrated. You can have a Stalker with taunt. I have one. Not having a damage aura (when not every Brute/Tanker set gets one) seems rather arbitrary.

I say if you want an "excuse" to try Regen secondary, katana is the best option. Many will turn their nose up at less than optimal but if you're trying to play every powerset scrapper has to offer, kat/Regen is solid.

With regards to feeling super, I feel both Tera and Blade and Soul really hit that mark probably due to their mechanics emphasizing control, knock back and aerial juggling. You don't get as much customization in your abilities but some exists in both. Also both are horribly grindy. I don't feel people were too snobby about great (probably in late game but you have to get there which means grinding your way there). Mostly a powerful character would just carry the others but eventually you start carrying others too. Methodical combat, I'd voch for Final Fantasy XI. The combat is slower and tend to revolve around interrupting foes, coordinating skill chains and bursts and managing aggro. A lot has changed however since it changes to a solo game. Now you're collecting NPCs like pokemon cards to help in different quests.

I enjoy simplicity as well but more in concept than in execution. Like my DM/WP stalker, his attacks aren't negative energy but instead ash. But not cindery ash, it's the particles of his disintegrating body. As far as execution goes, I tend to imaging that he could perform a lot of complex feats because he's literally controlling a cloud of his body to harm others, like entering someone's throat and choke them. Having mechanics in DM where using Twilight Grasp on a foe you used Touch of fear on creates a hold effect is a "combo mechanic" but it's different from the others in effect, execution and concept. I think another reason I like Stalkers is they have resources and effects to capitalize on such as hide, As, demoralize and stuff. They usually have interesting interactions with other powers and mechanics as well.

I think you would like Stalkers then. I do this all the time (point my character at them and goes "You. Die.") I'd even say my Elec stalker has more variety in exploiting its mechanics and advantages. Perhaps the evolution of Stalker is why old EM had to be changed and why it fits so poorly with Stalker overall. Although I'm sure effectually, having 2 quick cast extreme damage attacks would be effective to someone, probably in PvP (and the real reason we're here tonight). As for the not optimal with limited AoE...one of the 2 tricked out incarnate characters I have is a NB/Regen Stalker. Might be a bit more hardcore since it's not energy damage tho.

Haven't read replies but I didn't choose any of the options because I feel a lot of them are contexual to eachother and could affect the need or efficacy of other options. For example: "I feel that only certain parts of the game need to be looked at (IOs, Incarnates, etc)" and "I would rather see rewards adjusted for existing “hard” content (enemy factions, TF settings)" touch on portions of risk vs reward in that, if it required delving into a difficulty setting that dampened/suppressed IOs/incarnate to gain the rewards to advance them, at the very least, people would need to "struggle" to advance forward rather than coasting on borrowed power. But don't take me too serious. I thrive on being contrarian.

Would be neat if each member got a short solo scene where they do a selected animation or scene from a list as their name flashes across the screen, a la anime intro or something out of an Oceans movie. Imagine intro'ing a group of villains and having one guy pick the "standing on a pile of dead Longbow", another pick the "opening a portal to countless eldritch horrors" but YOU pick the "snatch candy from baby in carriage" one. Oh, and only 1 person can pick each animation. It's like a gameshow and first to pick gets it.

I'm going to have to vote no on this suggestion on account people would go from spending hours in the character creator to spending months.

I like it. It's an outside the box idea that could create a different flow for yourself in combat. And I think, with the overall slow animations (although some time can be shaved off), you'll find that for solo, foes will mostly be staggering around as you prep TF or ET. I'd still want Whirling Hands to get more omph though. To further elaborate on the simplification, CoX as a whole is a very simple game in its execution when it comes to MMO standards. Powers are clicked, animations play and effects are granted. The only real way to differentiate powers (for casual players) is via animation, damage type and a combination of secondary effects...and some sort of limiting/boosting mechanic built into the set. For power gamers, the differing factors tend to be overall effect vs its efficiency. While I know my place with regards to power gaming and min/maxing is closer to novice, I feel more comfortable in presenting the view of concept, individuality and creativity, at least for this game. That preamble out of the way, the purpose of extra mechanics (which I'm sure you already understand) is to differentiate the sets beyond simply secondary effects and particles. How many energy/smashing damage sets exist that disorient foes? Four. The extra mechanics not only differentiate the sets but also gives it a concept, a motif, and identity that incorporates the concept beyond just the flavor text. If the extra mechanics didn't exist, I don't know how many lethal damage melee sets people would tolerate when they are all built to perform within the same range of capabilities (there's six of those now, if I'm not mistaken). So while those mechanics may seem similar at face value, one could see practically any attack set with a similar level of simplistic brevity. On top of that, just like stacking secondary effects like -def, -res, stun, etc, they mean different things for different sets (no one complains how similar the -def in swords is to the -def in radiation?) so a "similar combo mechanic" can mean different things for different sets. That's what a casual player (such as myself) enjoys, crafting concepts around these effects and mechanics. I suppose to a min/maxer, it might all seem the same and ultimately a hurdle in their path to perfect performance but that's just not my perspective. Rather than seek numerical superiority, I'm more suggesting give Energy Melee the concept and performance it has...+more. Like where does the energy come from? What manifests it? Why does it hurt the user? Why does it stay localized around the user's hands? And why does it disorient foes (energy blast is a similar concept but doesn't disorient)? As we get more and more options and concepts for sets, it might be better to look past the old motifs like (this set stuns, this set does knockdown, this set is fast, this set isn't as fast, etc). Not saying everything needs "combos" but it's hard to just agree to disagree when the other side merely wants superior numbers. I mean, you have Titan Weapons and Street Justice lol use an aura or weapon customization if you need to. I hope maybe that kind of explains my viewpoint a little. I'm not trying to get anyone to love set mechanics but it seems kind of obtuse to just file them all under the same label when they are intentionally meant to play differently. That's fine. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but you're welcome that I helped add about a page of discussion to the thread that might have started dying out once everyone finished saying "yeah, I'd like the fast animation back" and then went on their way. And I think they mean swapping animations around, not animation customization. Although no one talks much about animation customization anymore. Personally would like to see someone (not me because I'm lazy) take all the animations and emotes and create a big spreadsheet of them all grouped by same/similar animation times and then we can get a peek at what options there might be for giving alternate character movements/stances for powers.

That's a very oversimplification of those sets' mechanics. But if that's your opinion on the new sets, then I don't really have anything to discuss with you. Now you're changing Total Focus animation as well as changing other ATs that get access to TF. Just saying, if you wanted to give both sides what they want, the 2nd suggestion I pointed out does that.

Well I kind of already did. I'm still talking about suggestions to improve energy melee. For a more realistic change, I already read someone say the devs are going to be looking at energy assault as a possible template. Someone suggested in another thread, to keep the current animation (since some people like it) ET would have the regular animation when not charged and the old fast animation when charged. Tack on the other two charge spenders on WH and Bone Smasher, figure something out for Stun and that's probably it. The reason I embellished my suggestion is to combat the annoyance of getting a 2nd charge right after the first this wasting it... Then getting no charges until I just give up on random and use TF.

I blame that you made the thread a poll with only 3 options, 2 of which are generic changes.

What do you mean "and we're back to"? Alternate mechanics for build up is relatively unique compared with how many iterations of build up we work with now. Adding mechanics to make the powers less static is the purpose. As for my specific suggestions, they were more just off the top of my head. The penalty on barrage is because the added damage would likely turn the tier 1 attack into a tier 2 and if applying stuns that has a chance to stack and last 8+sec, you'd start getting some ridiculous stuns. The concept of a self penalizing set interests me and if providing a good enough consolation, or a means of regulating the downside is an aspect I'm mentally exploring with this suggestion. I think the other types of self penalizing powers are the tier 9s but they put a ridiculous huge effect out with a penalty that often is too great to self mitigate (and if it can be self mitigated, it's usually to the extreme to be ignored like EA's tier 9). I'm looking at doing something more mild but also severe enough to have an effect on your actions.

I didn't post trying to make the simplest solution. I posted to hear unique solutions. I even said it in my first post.

But it doesn't have the same mechanics. Those sets consume all their charges no matter which skill. They also don't have the unique (draw in) effect.

But I was replying to "Look at my Inv/SS tank again and tell me there's appreciable difference." Particularly, the power level difference. I suppose I whoosh'ed the context but I was targeting that post and statement. It's not like I forgot the context, I just agree with @Bill Z Bubba that foes of sufficient skill and power could also overwhelm the Juggernaut and the Hulk, maybe not in outright defeating them but thwarting them all the same.

I usually describe it as Lethal being separation force. It divides matter by using a wedge or specific gravitational force that pulls physical matter away from other matter that is close enough to form a solid object/creature. Many concept for blades, cutting or dividing exists and can incorporate quantum mechanics to describe why something is being slit apart. Smashing seems a bit simpler but isn't limited to just physical objects. It's merely the opposite of lethal (dividing, splitting). It's crushing and compressing. There's a reason gravity control does smashing damage and not smashing and energy. All it's doing is making objects that have a gravity have more and since it's physical structure cannot withstand such increased pressure, it compacts and thus its structure is compromised (i.e. damage). I believe how these forces contrast each other can then be combined with other types of damage to create unique effects is why lethal and smashing damage exists functionally. We all know Cold + Smashing = throwing clumps of ice at someone to bludgeon them, so what would Cold + Lethal be? Perhaps vacating a designated space of heat and air (a vacuum attack)? As for the effects of of Lethal damage, I always thought it'd be a cool mechanic if, by its namesake, pure lethal damage had a chance of instantly defeating foes dependent on their rank, vulnerability to lethal damage and current HP. If their current HP is full, there's a chance of the target instantly dying unless they have a moderate amount of resistance to lethal damage. Would have some interesting interactions with Corruptor if using a lethal damage set, they'd have a chance of instantly killing foes at the start and swiftly demolishing foes who are below half.

The reason I ask is because I just like imagining possibilities. I've heard the various "revert the animation", "swap this animation with that" and what not variation. I just want to hear some new ones too. As I was waiting for a response, I considered one: What if we kept the animation time of ET and LOWERED the damage and recharge? .... Okay, you don't have to laugh so loudly. But on top of that, the set gets the Energy Assault treatment but +4. So each attack has a chance to give the user a charge and certain attack consume those charges. An annoyance I ran into on my Grav/EA dominator was using an attack and getting back to back charges that go to waste because they don't stack. So we give this set an opportunity advantage because it only has melee and a reset button called Energy Transfer. So the attacks that get to spend these charges would be Barrage, Whirling Hands and Energy Transfer (Stalkers would kind of have to bite it here despite me being a Stalker fan, and only having 2 spenders, Barrage and Energy Transfer). When Barrage consumes a charge (it will only ever consume 1), it does a bit of extra damage on each punch, each punch gets its own individual chance to apply stun increased from 10% to something like 33% and the duration of the stun is increased by 100%...but it also inflicts an irresistible -recharge debuff on yourself (something like -8% for 15sec, something you'd feel if you decided to apply the effect multiple times). When Whirling Hands spends charges (it will only ever consume 1), it just does more energy damage. The curve would be Energy Transfer, when used, consumes all charges. With a lowish recharge and lowish damage (but long animation), it's best used when charged. You can use it without charge but it's not very effective (still stuns though), or partially charged which does more and more damage but when fully charged it has an instantaneous PBAoE effect upon activation that has a 20ft radius "suck everything into a small area" that does moderate energy damage, massive damage to the target and some damage to yourself upon completion of the attack. Yes, the whole knock toward/draw in/vectored KB hasn't been done but this could be a cool debut of the effect AND give the set a unique spot amongst the other melee sets even if it does only mediocre AoE and mid-tier ST. There are variations I thought of while typing that but I'll just leave it at that since no one wants to read my long winded posts. EDIT: Also, Build Up would be replaced with a duplicate that has a lower +dmg buff, higher +ToHit, longer duration (28sec or something), grant +1 charge upon activation and improved chance to charge for its duration.

Just putting out a question, it doesn't reflect my personal opinion of the set or the other suggested changes: What changes to the powers would you think are needed to keep Energy Transfer's animation the same?

Holy ****, you're the most vain poster on this forum. I literally told you what I did (look at the first page of Suggestions Forum) and took notice of how many suggestions sit at a few to maybe 20 replies that don't fall into the "change the whole game" category but just something cosmetic or power/powerset buffs. There is no severe need to consolidate unrelated suggestions just because someone told you to make your own thread for your unrelated suggestion and you feel salty about it.

I don't have to look at your Tanker to know the Hulk would flatten him, if not quickly, eventually without a chance of winning.

You've forgotten what the suggestion is. To negate the effects of the MO Stat limit, you just need to engage fewer foes. Also I made a list of ways to mitigate the effects. Controls nullification or debuff partial nullification or buffs modifying the value. There are also tactical ways like having multiple off tanks sharing aggro rather than trying to focus all attention on one individual point of failure.