Steampunkette

Around 36% of Gravity users who can take Dimension Shift do take Dimension Shift at 50. Sonic Resonance shows that 10% (for Defenders and Masterminds) and 20-30% (Controllers and Corruptors) choose Sonic Cage. Though the bottom 10 least chosen powers by players does include one intangibility: Black Hole by Controllers. It's 10 from the bottom. Confront on Widows comes in at a measley 4.18% making it the least taken Power!

Yay! Progress! I think the initial suggestion I made on page 1 is a good step. I don't think it's -enough-, based on the raw numbers that have been provided since then, but I'd prefer to nerf it not enough than too much. Bringing it down a tiny bit (10% DPS during Momentum which covers about 75-85% of it's overall DPS) would at least reign it in as an outlier while still leaving it ahead. Other steps could be more targeted on specific powers. Like removing the DoT from both Follow Through and Whirling Strike. But I -kind- of feel like it should maybe remain on Follow Through? DoTs only 'really' help on hard Targets like Elite Bosses and AVs, enemies with enough hit points to survive to the end of multiple DoTs. There's just not enough AoE Hard Target situations to warrant giving Whirling Strike a DoT on top of all it's other benefits. But I'd rather see these changes in a vacuum rather than all together. A step by step process with one little change, a monitoring of the result, and then another small change. Just so we don't wind up overnerfing.

Then the answer to the current point is: Infinitum's data was severely flawed by his decision to build a Single Target Chain from an AoE chain to compare it to a Single Target Chain used by another set and thus should be disregarded. And now that -that's- cleared up...

Also worth noting: All analogies are imperfect, but this one is just... *chef's kiss* "You're not allowed to perform Brain Surgery until you've performed Brain Surgery! All the books that you've read, the cadavers you've worked with, and training you've undergone is irrelevant. You're not allowed to do brain surgery 'til you've done brain surgery!"

How can you be an Astrophysicist, Neil DeGrasse, Tyson, if you've never been to SPACE?! 'Cause the Numbers are there. And he knows the numbers. Math. It's not that hard and it lines up in the game world pretty damned No. The stated problem is that the powerset is a bit OP and should be slapped on the wrist. Then a lot of people trying to figure out how it was OP while a couple people declared, apropos of nothing but their own experiences, that it isn't OP at all and might be slightly underpowered and even if it was OP it's not a big deal blah blah blah LET PEOPLE HAVE THEIR FUN OP SETS! The numbers that were brought forward show the set's OP out of the gate, before Momentum ever comes up. *shrugs* Some people are discussing the ST capabilities of the set 'cause an attempt to "Disprove" the set was OP relied entirely on one person's very flawed ST chain (Made up of AoE) only being 10% more effective than Energy Melee's ST Chain.

It's insincere civility. "You have to be civil with me or else you're wrong. But I can be uncivil and accusatory and if you lose your cool you're wrong!"

It isn't "The big offender". The big offender is Whirling Smash at 44% OP. Though, to be fair, that power -only- works in Momentum. Defensive Sweep, on the other hand, is 18% over the standard for damage calculations -outside- of Momentum. Inside Momentum it gets faster. The only reason people brought up Follow Through is that Infinitum didn't take it into account for his Single Target Attack Chain, instead focusing on crowbaring AoE attacks into the ST chain. He didn't take it, so the whole set feels "Weak" on Single Target compared to the overpowered individual powers. You don't have to use Follow Up Twice inside a Momentum Window to get good single target damage. But it helps.

It doesn't. Remember: Most of the powers in the set are overbalanced -outside- of momentum by between 10 and 44%. INSIDE Momentum those numbers increase, whether you follow through once or twice. By spreading out the Momentum Window and Momentum Times for animations we reduce the DPS without reducing the number of powers that activate during the Momentum Window. Also! https://forums.homecomingservers.com/fotm-powers/ The overwhelming majority of Titan Weapons Users (624/748 on Brutes, for example) take Follow Through. So the "Some of us don't" argument that Infinitum is peddling is accurate, but ultimately irrelevant.

That's why I like my fix. It reduces the DPS of the set during Momentum in general, but not by a ton. Whether you follow up twice for the big spike or not.

Honestly... I feel like Corruption should be the Tier 2, the Ranged Component changed to a Melee component and it's range shrunk to match Lash. Make those three attacks the 'Melee' attacks of the set. Then maybe give them the Flares/Fire Blast/Fire Ball in Hellfire Style with a Sentinel-Style range reduction. Longer Melee range, Shorter Ranged range. That'd cover both 6 powers in the set and the 'Standard' Assault Metric of 2 ST Ranged, 2 ST Melee, 1 AoE Ranged, 1 AoE Melee. Then do Hell on Earth as a Lash-Ranged Melee attack that drops a Mag 12 Hold for 2 seconds on the target, starting with the animation time, use the Hell on Earth Animation complete with the fire imps and an AoE fire effect as their Tier 9. Toss in a "Power Up" instead of a Build Up and we're down to needing one power for the set! Hell Unbound as a Burn would work just fine, but what if we switched it up and did a 'Bonfire' cast for it and made it a ranged-placement Burn to make it different from other Burns?

Also -extremely- easy to pull off if you have a Time Manipulator on your team. Whether Time/ or /Time (But not a /Time Blaster, obviously!). Or Kinetics. Or Radiation Support for that sweet -sweet- Accelerate Metabolism!

Not a lot, it turns out... the power recharges in 10 seconds, base, and you can slot it for Recharge with 2 SOs and grab Hasten to have it every 4.7 seconds during Hasten Windows. Use it at the start of Momentum, use it at the end of Momentum, and use RA and AoD in the middle. Of course, you -could- get into the absolutely silly levels of recharge reduction that IO Sets can produce... and that just opens things up even wider.

... WOW what a Strawman Argument that relies on appealing to ridiculousness, appeal to emotion, an ad hominem attack, and an appeal to the populace without actually addressing the point that it "counters" even -tangentially-! Like, you full on Matrix Dodged the point! Congratulations, you've jumped the shark harder than the Riverdale TV Series!

@Infinitum Unless you can get the recharge time of Rend Armor down to 1.76 seconds and Arc of Destruction down to 1.45 seconds you've got dead air in your 'Single Target' momentum chain. If you're throwing stuff in it to fill time, that's great! It's not going to be as good as Follow Up, though. So you're literally using a build that has shot itself in the foot, out of the gate, on single target damage and claiming that it doesn't do OP Single Target Damage in fact of the numbers because your experience doesn't line up with it. I'll give you an analogy, as a call back to way back when you mistook fallacy for analogy! That's like buying a prize winning racehorse, hobbling it with a rope, and complaining when it comes in fourth place. "But it should still be good if the set is OP overall haw haw haw lulz!" Nah, Bro. You don't use AoE superiority on a Single Target and pretend it's the same thing. The set has OP AoE for AoE situations 'cause of it's high damage to area ratio, that shit doesn't matter in a single target situation. It's also got great single target damage if you don't self-nerf it. You did self-nerf it. You nerfed it into the ground and are using that experience to try and express how 'Not Strong' the set is. I'm honestly kind of flabbergasted by all this. The reason you don't think the set needs nerfs is because you nerfed it on your characters. That shit is HILARIOUS.

Reduce the Hover component of Teleport to .05 seconds (plus animation time). Alter the power to create a hovering, stationary, pseudopet at the teleportation location which grants a 3ft radius nonstacking Self+Ally Hover effect for 6 seconds (plus the duration of the teleport animation) with a hover speed of 20ft and an application cycle of .02 seconds. Basically it keeps casting the power every 2 hundredths of a second but none of them stack, just to make sure the player gets 'caught' when their personal teleport-hover runs out after 5 hundredths of a second If you move your character you exit the Hover-zone and start falling/walking/whatever under your own power.

Punishment only really works when the culture wholeheartedly disapproves. And our culture doesn't. Oh we like to say it does, but dudes still high five each other over sexist jokes and defend comedians who are "Just Joking". Women who have been raped are accused of lying to ruin some guy's life and there's still the tacit assumption women will do all or the majority of emotional and unpaid labor in the home. Plus the victim blaming tied up in it. The President of the US talks about sexually assaulting women, fondly recalls the shock on nearly naked teen girls faces when he walked in on them changing during a pageant, and generally demeans women in a lot of little ways but we excused it, as a society, as locker room talk and elected him. Plus there's the rape allegations and the fact that his ex-wife described an act of rape both in court and her book and after a settlement was released stop calling it rape... but still acknowledges that it happened. Even among Police Officers, the people who are supposed to catch and punish people, at least 40% of the families of police officers experience domestic abuse. The Watchmen don't stop the problem, 40% of the time they're a part of it. (Or they were in 1991 the last time someone appeared before Congress with concrete evidence of what was going on based on a probe of police precincts where the cops themselves claimed to have beaten their spouses) Punishment isn't half as effective as prevention in cases where society doesn't -truly- consider this kind of thing a problem. And stop pretending that taking shit out of the game has the same social connotation. It's an argument to ridiculousness and a logical fallacy meant to play on an emotional response to make me defensive and more receptive to capitulation. It ain't working. There's problematic stuff in the game, already. But we don't need to add to it. And we certainly don't need to spend 8 times the resources on creating a single problematic powerset that we would spend on a new set that -isn't- problematic.

You're never gonna change Infinitum's mind, @Hopeling He has no interest in an honest discussion. He has decided that his experience is universal and anything which contradicts that viewpoint is either: A) Irrelevant 'cause it doesn't mesh with what he considers to be the 'Real World' B) Coming from someone who doesn't have 'enough' experience with the set. C) Specifically engineered to ruin people's lives. WON'T YOU THINK OF THE TW PLAYERS?! He'll happily resort to ad hominem attacks, appeals to emotion, strawman arguments, slippery slopes, and appeal to popularity to try and squash dissent because what he 'feels' is far more important than any information or data that can be gathered. In short: His cognitive bias towards TW being either perfect or underpowered (Depending on the evidence he's refuting) is an unshakeable mountain.

A Point Worth Noting: You can't "Miss" because your target died when it comes to Momentum. Momentum is applied when you click the attack power because the check to see whether it hit or not is done when you click the power, not when it does damage. Now someone dropping a judgement as you use your first attack could cause you to -waste- momentum 'cause everything near you is dead, but if you didn't get Momentum when you clicked the power it's because you whiffed all on your lonesome and has nothing to do with whether the target died before you landed a hit.

Understandable. But have you seen the results of the damage calculations against the baseline values of melee attacks back on page 2 or 3? It breaks the metrics in slow-mode by 18% on average. In Momentum? *whistles* the standard damage calculations for a melee damage set go out the window. That's not Pylons or 'High Level' or personal anecdotes about what it's like to play, that's the cold hard facts of it's DPA/DPE calculated against the area and target values of AoEs, the animation times, endurance costs, recharge times, and knockback. But it's not inclusive of the DoTs that the set gets. Whirling Smash outperforms it's cost, animation time, and recharge time by a whopping 44%! That's -huge-. And while in 'Slow Mode' both Defensive Sweep and Crushing Blow clock in at 10% overperforming based on all balancing factors. Put them into Momentum, with their much faster animation times, and the damage and effects they put out significantly outweighs the costs. That's not including Bio Armor. That's not even including slotted values or how high you can buff your damage with Build Momentum. That's just the basic powers themselves, in a vacuum, being between 10% and 44% too good. The whole set coming out on average at 18% too good... before Momentum and before DoT.

Not at all. Only that your numbers are misleading. They present the fact that most people don't make it to 50 on Titan Weapons and posits that it's because it sucks at lower levels and gets good later because it's #1 at 50. But the most popular set overall, which does really nice damage and is good pretty much from the get-go and strong all the way to post-50, only has a 1 in 26 ratio of being played to 50. While Titan Weapons, the 7th most popular set, gets to 50 1 in 12 plays. It could be "It's better at end-game and sucks at low levels" just as easily "It holds attention better" because this game -runs rampant- with Altitis and the majority of characters stall out around 32-44. Unless we intend to posit that it has a larger number of people who PL it to 50 and just play it at high end 'cause that's the only way it's "worth" playing. But we'd need some different numbers for that. Specifically good would be 'Time Played' on Titan Weapons characters compared to other character/set combo. In short: Needs more Datas and drawing conclusions from 2 datapoints is bad.

S'why I was suggesting Assault/Defense-Control, instead. It'd be -different- from something that has been tried and was largely met with a lukewarm response the first time around.

I am highly disinclined to agree with that. You'd need to differentiate it on the level of Stalker to Scrapper for it to feel like a different class, and even those two feel -awfully- similar a lot of the time. They're differentiated not just by inherent, which is REALLY SIMILAR, but by core mechanics, AoE vs ST focus, HP values, and the way their powers work. Mainly that Taunt Aura or Area Damage Toggles tend to get either cut or turned into Status Effect Toggles.

Out of 6,300 people playing Titan Weapons Scrappers, 1/12 make it to 50. Out of 8,000 people playing Street Justice Scrappers 1 in 26 make it to 50. Out of 4,000 Scrappers playing Electric Melee, 1 in 10 make it to 50. Out of 8,000 Martial Artists, 1 in 22 makes it to 50. Out of 5,500 Spines Scrappers 1 in 12 makes it to 50. When you break the numbers down by percentage, it looks like people just give up on a lot of powersets much more often than your initial numbers present it. But Titan Weapons, Electric Melee, and Spines are all near 1 in 10 going all the way.

The point was that if you have a Toggle Mez Protection and get end drained and already have controls on you but not -affecting- you, suddenly you're held/stunned/sleep/whatever and completely screwed unless you have a Break Free Handy. But if you have a Click Protection on in the same situation, the mez doesn't shut you down when your toggles die. You can run, pop a blue, toggle up, and get back into the fight. A /Fire or a /Bio or an /Invuln in that situation is pretty well f'd in the A. An SR/Nin/Shield ain't.

So! Every year my husband and I, along with a few friends, usually, create 'Halloweenies'. These characters are Halloween-Themed Heroes and Villains who are monsters or monstrous that are good people. Think Universal Monsters play Hellboy. This year I decided to do a loose homage to Lydia Deetz, the human girl who hangs out with dead friends. For that I went with Necromancy as a primary so she'll have some zombies hanging out, but I colored it all black and this lovely blue-green to kind of evoke unnatural light and darkness mingling. Then I copied that over to the Time Set and I'll just RP it as necromantic powers 'cause I'm a giant dork! The character is currently 22. Her zombies get torn to shreds but her Grave Knight tends to survive thanks to Temporal Selection and Mending. But once I get her fully setted out... she's going to become a beast, I think. I'll have Permahasten with overlap, near-softcap defenses, and provide my hubby's TW/Bio Brute with enough defense and Recharge that he won't -have- to use Sets to make his character a true monster...+30% Damage, +80% Recharge, +27% Defense, plus Regen, and Healing, and having all enemies at -24% defense and -22% Resistance. He's going to be my Tier 4 MM Pet! ❤️ Plus my Lich's Control Powers combined with my own and enough Speed Debuff to make Synapse meander? Holy crap this thing looks crazy fun to play...