Steampunkette

Any damage debuffs are going to be subject to both enemy rank and the purple patch, so their scaling will be wonky no matter what and thus they're not a great measure of survivability. An AV, for example, is always going to ignore almost all of any debuff you put on them, rendering that debuff-as-defense essentially useless. No single toggle or click will fix the deficit that we've got on our hands with this set. It needs to be redesigned away from "Click Debuffs on enemies" of which this set has 4. Okay, arguably Thunderstorm is a pet but the principle is the same, it's not providing any defensive benefit directly to the character, so it's leaving the player vulnerable... Freezing Rain and the like, by the way? BIG Aggro Magnet powers. You're going to be drawing a ton of aggro that you just can't take. For this kind of character we'd need to imagine every power, or -nearly- every power, as defense and support with values that are less than either a Scrapper or a Corruptor provides.

So... what I see, here, is a melee character with a bunch of buff/debuff. But their defensive abilities include 2/3rd of a personal resistance power on SLE, the Defense and Resistance from one Stealth Power, some AoE/Ranged Defense from one power... and nothing else. So we're looking at 20ish% resistance to SLE, a further 10-14% resistance to Cold, Fire, and Energy, 3-5% Defense to most stuff and around 12-15% Defense to AoE and Range. This character would not survive getting aggro and would probably get murdered by AoE in Melee unless they also happened to have a Defender/Corruptor on the team explicitly buffing their survivability. This is why "Take a Support Set and add some Defense to it!" doesn't work as a design method. It's a cool powerset, don't get me wrong. Nifty effects. But it's just not enough personal survivability to make it viable for melee, whether from Assault powersets or otherwise. For a character to be reasonably durable we're looking at 60% resistance to S/L at the very least. Or 28% Defense to S/L or some combination of the two. Otherwise they're just gonna get hammered down.

A GDefense/Melee character could be a viable alternative to 'Another Melee/Defense', though. By putting the GDefense first we wind up increasing the overall buffing output by around 30% and create a commensurate DPS drop through secondary attacks. Without aggro gathering abilities (We could swap Confront/Taunt for Placate, even) it shouldn't step on the toes of anyone, really. A Buffer who deals slightly better than tanker damage in melee but has neither the aggro control nor the durability of a Tanker. As to the "Mindlink T1" that's way too powerful an ability for an early game character, to start with, and due to it's intentionally long recharge time (Because recharge rate buffs exist) you'd wind up using it to provide way too much buffing way too infrequently.

The set has now been updated with new icons provided by Rylas! These custom Icons are completely ballin' and Rylas gets a huge +1 from me for doing it! Round of applause for Rylas!

With the proposed Group Defense Sets concept I included upthread placement is a nonstarter. You'd -have- to be so close to the people you're providing buffs to that ranged damage really isn't much of an option. And because it would be a leashed effect rather than a buff applied to target, corner positioning and the like means your buffs drop off your allies. And standing within 20 feet of a mob and attacking means they have the time to close the distance in the time it takes you to make a single attack, so assault sets don't really make a whole lot of sense. You're not getting a real 'defensive benefit' from range because you have to hang near the melees. Now if the SENTINEL were to use these Group Defense sets then they'd be a "Stack Guarder". Hang out with the squishies at longish range providing some dps and increased safety to controllers/defenders/etc to encourage team-movement... But even that I'm iffy on. Group Defense really just strikes me as a D&D Paladin sharing her Auras with nearby party members on the front lines. Small area, small bonuses, but big impact thanks to stacking. I.E. the Tanker/Brute/Scrapper/Stalker has 'decent' defensive abilities at 24, this character makes them all better without sacrificing too much of their own survival in the process. I feel like an Assault character would be best suited as a mitigator. Mitigating damage through movement/range, mitigating damage through defensive abilities, and maybe mitigating damage through control. I'd love that, too... but it's just not what people want. They want 'Paladins' by any other name.

I'd go the other direction. Increase the window for Momentum by 1/2 second, but increase the animation times of all momentum swings by 1/10th of a second without modifying the damage of the attacks. You'd get the same amount of attacks during your momentum window, because it would last longer to help with the increased animation times, spreading out the damage by about 1/2 second. (Since you get 4-5 attacks during a momentum window) For simplicity's sake let's say all 5 attacks in the window do 100 damage and have an activation time of 1 second. 500 damage over 5 seconds is 100dps. And here all 5 attacks in the window do 100 damage and have an activation time of 1.1 seconds. 500 damage over 5.5 seconds is 90dps 1/10th less DPS without reducing the DPA of any of their attacks.

... what -would- a Defense/Control powerset spectrum look like... Firstly it would need to rely on 'Lesser' controls to avoid overstepping onto the toes of a Controller or Dominator. Perhaps smaller areas and lower target counts rather than smaller magnitudes? Sleeps, Fears, Stuns. Stuff that provides absolute mitigation but doesn't create battlefield control... Willpower/Mind Control as a 'Mental Protection' powerset Bio Armor/Plant Control as a 'Wild Protection' powerset Elec/Elec Invuln/Earth Energy/Energy Dark/Dark Fire/Fire Ice/Ice But using clicks from your defensive set to put down controls could also provide direct mitigation... Like instead of a 20 second Mass Hypnosis sleep you get a 10 second sleep on up to 8 targets in a 15ft radius and each target hit grants you a +Regen buff instead of Rise to the Challenge being a toggled Buff that grants regen based on enemies near you..? That is another thing, since you'd need to get rid of taunt auras so these Assault Characters don't perpetually stand in melee. Could have the Defensive Powers in the Protection Sets provide small Control Boosts, too? Like using High Pain Tolerance to get a durational increase on Holds while it's toggled on. Or it increases the Knockback of some Telekinesis style "push 'em around" power that comes later in the set...

That's what people are leaning towards, yeah. Everyone wants a Melee Support. As to making it Assault/GDefense... yeah okay. We could do that... but it'd just be a variation on the Guardian which was worked on and shopped to another server. They used 'Composition' as a secondary which is the 'Armor set but with a few Support powers sprinkled in' that I described, before. Honestly, if we wanted to do Assault with the type of "Group Defense" powerset I've described, it would be better as a GDefense/Assault rather than Assault/GDefense archetype. That way both the self-buffing and group-buffing effects are the primary function and Ranged/Melee attacks are a secondary powerset. If Assault is to be a primary it really needs a pretty solid Mitigation secondary. I could see a Defense/Control hybrid, but it doesn't feel like something we can reasonably expect, while a strictly defensive secondary is more reasonable.

Then why are you still posting in this thread? Why are you presenting yourself as the lone voice of righteous rational improvement in a sea of yes men? Why are you rambling on, irrelevantly, about Business Practices and applying them to the game if you're not trying to convince people to change their minds? Why are you accusing people of making Strawmen Arguments and shit where there are no strawmen standing or being tipped over? Your actions do not line up with your words, here, Stryker. And if you are 'Just looking' at the possibility of reducing the cooldown: Eh. As was previously shown number by number, the power can already be triple-stacked with a pretty massive overlap by the time you get into high end. I guess it kind of sucks that putting one DO into the power doesn't give you 100% Uptime but in just 3 more levels you can slot 2 SOs and not have that problem any longer. Most sets and archetypes in the game have a growth curve. Often their more iconic powers are in the late tiers and don't show up 'til the mid to late 20s. Shield Defense is one of 2 defense sets that gets all three positioned defenses by level 10. To offset that comparative defensive strength, at low levels it has mez protection gaps and relies more heavily on it's positioned defenses to avoid getting hit by mez protection. But once you get to SOs that weakness is largely gone. Growing Pains is probably the best way to think about it. 'Cause you get some big and unusual benefits early on (Especially having Ranged and AoE in -one- Toggle compared to SR which needs 3 toggles for their positioned defenses) and then you get a big change, later on, when you play with speed.

Yeah, 1984 double plus good! That's clearly what I'm saying because I'm a caricature of Big Brother you myopic hack! You don't get to be snidely insulting and claim the high ground. A paradigm shift from you perspective of "Everything should be toggles 'cause it's easier' is what's in order. You clearly believethat it would be a massive improvement to the game but the numbers don't line up. At best it would be a marginal change that weakens Shield Defense to provide slightly more ease of use. And it's already pretty easy to use. You appear to be ignoring all the associated costs and losses your proposed change would cause. Going from a Click to a Toggle expands the dangers the set faces, requires a downgrading of the defensive functions (probably the defense debuff resistance and fear protection), homogenizes the defensive sets more, and removes the utility of recharge investment. The cost to benefit ratio is pretty damned high, here.

The intent of a business is to increase profit margins as much as possible without being arrested. The point of a power in City of Heroes is not that. But since you're big on Business, let me Jargon you a bit with a Paradigm Shift. Literally. I'm saying shift your Paradigm. Not every product will do as well in every market. You need variety to keep the customers coming in, I.E. players playing the sets. If everything is the same, standard, undifferentiated, one dull play is all it's going to take to drop interest. And then your business tanks. Diversify your Portfolio and Diversify your Powerset Design Choices.

High Pain Tolerance > Comfortably Numb: Auto. Grants the Paladin 2% Resistance to all damage types and +9.99% additional Max HP, that is unenhanceable and a further 3.63% Resistance to all damage types and +10% additional Max HP to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Mind Over Body > Ignore Pain: Toggle. Grants the Paladin 6.88% Resistance to S/L/P that is unenhanceable and a further 10% S/L/P Resistance to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Fast Healing > Swift Mending: Auto. Grants the Paladin 25% Regeneration Rate that cannot be enhanced and a further 50% Regeneration and 25% resistance to Regen Debuffs to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Indomitable Will > Mental Fortress: Grants the Paladin Mez Protection, and grants the Paladin and all nearby allies 7.5% defense to Psionic Damage which can be enhanced. Rise to the Challenge > Challenger: Grants the Paladin 75% Regeneration Rate which cannot be enhanced, also grants a further 125% Regeneration Rate to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Quick Recovery > Enduring: Auto. Grants the Paladin 10% Endurance Recovery that cannot be enhanced, grants a further 20% endurance recovery to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Heightened Senses > Awareness: Grants the Paladin 2.31% Defense to all types except Psionic that cannot be enhanced, grants a further 7.1% E/N/F/C Defense to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Resurgence > Down but not Out: Click. Self-Rez and Ally Rez targeting up to 8 allies within 20ft. Once rezzed, all allies gain a 20% ToHit and Damage Bonus for 90 seconds, the Paladin gains the same increase but after 90 seconds takes a 5% ToHit and Damage penalty for 45 seconds. Strength of Will > Conviction. Click. Grants the Paladin 7.5% Resistance to all damage types and 10% Endurance Recovery that cannot be enhanced, grants a further 10% Resistance to all damage types and 20% Endurance Recover to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft. At the end of 120s the Paladin's maximum Endurance is reduced by 50 for 30 seconds. There y'go. Willpower.

I wasn't crossing Invuln with Empathy in that powerset. I was saying that there's people who would want to put together a sprinkle of Support Powers into a Defensive Powerset. It's just not a reasonable idea because you wind up with characters who can't take care of themselves -or- their team. Which is why I came up with the idea of splitting defensive powers between the character and their allies, and to offset the increased power make half the value unenhanceable and apply only to the caster. That way the support increases aren't -huge-, but don't leave the melee-fighting support character with giant gaps in their defenses. Would you like me to do Willpower next? I could.

We have one Throwing Knife character animation, and three Shuriken character animations. But we only have one "Thrown Knife" projectile animation. We'd need to create a ton of art assets to do the Daggerstorm. Further, there would be redraw to it. And the projectile would not match your weapon customization. That's why Bladestorm went with abstract 'Blasts' and the idea of wind-strikes rather than throwing knives or throwing katanas. Because we could make the proposed set with the art assets we already have. That said, obviously we could do Bladestorm with Dual Blades, instead, using all the same presented materials, but selecting a different set of animations.

So... It would be -functionally- impossible for the game to index your offline characters to gather their powerset and costume information. It would likewise be -functionally- impossible for the game to index your offline characters to apply gained XP to them. That is to say that it would be possible if a massive mechanical overhaul of the various servers (That is to say Login versus Character versus Map servers, not the play servers) was implemented that allowed them direct access. AND if that overhaul specifically created a character index for your characters legible to the map server so it could detail them out, and allowed direct read-write access to the various functions of your offline characters... But such an overhaul would be incredibly time consuming and likely have minimal benefit for the cost. Especially since the team is so small and it would mean the Mapserver would need to constantly ping the other two servers to locate information (Taking up more resources) Now MAYBE with some UI Changes they could set up an 'AE Ally" temp power that allowed you to build an NPC Ally in the AE and put them in some kind of "Ally Slot" that it could then index to summon when you use the temp power... But that would -still- be a pretty big undertaking. Especially to do it seven different times and create seven different temp powers tied to each 'AE Ally Slot' temp power (Since each one would only be able to index slot 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6)

Melee/Support, on its face, will not function. I know that's what everyone wants, but it just will not work as the powers are currently implemented. Melee/Armor-Support could function to a limited degree, since it could focus on AoE protection for defensive sets, but Resistance Sets would be SoL, and the AT as a whole would have a lot of trouble soloing. For a true "Melee/Support Hybrid" we'd need a specific type of power: Group Defenses. Things like Forcefield's and Sonic's big-bubbles, or the Leadership functions of VEATs. So instead of having Invuln/Empathy with 3-4 empathy powers and 5-6 Invuln Powers we'd need a straight up 9 tier powerset that provides a small benefit to the character using them and a small benefit to their allies. And they could -not- function as Force-Multipliers like Defenders or Corruptors can. For the sake of argument let's use Invuln and call the AT "Paladin" as a test case for this idea: Resist Physical Damage > Increased Durability: Auto. Provides 3.5% S/L Resistance and 25% Defense Debuff Protection to the Paladin that is unenhanceable and a further 4% S/L Res to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Temporary Invulnerability > Shared Resilience: Toggle. Provides 11.25% S/L Resistance to the Paladin that is unehanceable, and a further 11.25% SL Resistance to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Dull Pain > Inure to Pain: Click. Provides 19.99% +Max HP and 19.99% healing to the Paladin that is unenhanceable and a further 20% +Max HP and Healing to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Resist Elements > Elemental Protection: Auto. Provides 3.5% F/C Resistance and 25% Defense Debuff Protection to the Paladin that is unenhanceable and a further 4% F/C Res to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Unyielding > Unbowed: Toggle. Provides Mez Protection to the Paladin that cannot be enhanced. Provides 3.75% Resistance to all damage except Psionics to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft which can be enhanced. Resist Energies > Energy Protection: Auto. Provides 3.5% E/N Resistance and 25% Defense Debuff Protection to the Paladin that is unenhanceable and a further 4% E/N Res to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Invincible > Enduring: Toggle. Provides 7% Defense to all types to the Paladin that is unenhanceable. Provides 3.5% defense to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. Tough Hide > Thick Skin: Auto. Provides 3.75% Defense to all types to the Paladin and up to 8 allies within 20ft. This value can be enhanced. Unstoppable > Unleashed: Click. Provides 25% Resistance to all types except Psionic to the Paladin that cannot be enhanced. Grants 25% resistance to the Paladin up to 8 allies within 20ft that can be enhanced. When this power ends the Paladin is left Exhausted and has their endurance reduced to 0 and their endurance total reduced by 50 for 30 seconds. Assuming the Paladin slots for as much buff as possible: Resistances for Allies S/L 28.5% F/C 10.5% N/E 10.5% Defenses for Allies All Types 10.5% Max HP: +40% And for themselves: S/L 45.5% F/C 14% N/E 14% Defenses: 17.5% all types Max HP: +59.9% Each Defensive set could be modified in this way, to provide half it's bonus to the Paladin and a further (and enhanceable) half to the Paladin and nearby targets. But certain powersets, like Dark or Bio Armor, would create some sticky wickets. It would be best to simply remove them as potential defensive sets for the "Meleefender" archetype, regardless of what you name it. This way the Paladin in the proposal is not as well defended as a scrapper while also providing support. Coming out, in the end, a bit like a Sentinel as far as it's survivability goes. With some slotting it could hit Defensive or Resistance caps... but it wouldn't get there overnight. @ZeppIs this what you wanted?

Lemme flip this argument and see what you think. Only 2 out of the 11 Defensive sets have Clickable Mez Protection. Every Toggle Power has to be activated before you get mezzed. And if you get End-Drained you're completely screwed because you can't click the toggle while mezzed to break free even if your endurance recovers. Therefore all the weaker Toggle Based Powers should be converted to Clicks. Almost every group that drains endurance (Freakshow, Malta, Carnival of Shadows, even the Clockwork!) also brings with them powerful control effects. This puts Toggle Based Mez Protection on it's back foot -immediately- against not only consistent leveling threats (You fight Clockwork up 'til around 20 and then immediately face Freakshow for almost the entire rest of the game) But high tier threats, also since Malta and Carnies making up a -ton- of 35+ high level content! Even some of the "Special Zone" content, like the Rikti Warzone, provides enemies which screw up anyone who relies on Endurance for their Mez Protection thanks to the Curses that Vanguard put on you (Which requires you to buy a separate temporary power with only -5- uses!!!) This would still allow Toggle Players to slot their Mez Protection powers for additional resistance (or defense) but would make the Recharge that is bound up in all of the Resist Damage and Defense Buff Sets something that is -actually useful- for those powers instead of being wasted values or easily skipped IOs in the individual sets. It would also help to balance some of the differences between the Click and Toggle sets, since most players would put their Mez Protection on Autofire instead of Hasten or Destiny powers that can really skew the damage output of the defensive set characters higher and makes the defensive sets with self-healing or +MaxHP effects -significantly- more powerful! Yeah it's only two powersets that use click powers. There's also only three or four powersets which distribute their protection across multiple powers. There's also only two who have Tier 9 powers that ignore recharge rate changes. There's also only 4 who have a Tier 9 power that doesn't have a Crash. And Half of them don't have a Damaging Aura effect. And only one has PBAoE Stun and Fear Toggles. We could go on and on listing the differences between the sets and trying to figure out which ones are the "Least like the Others" (Regen. Regen is least like the others) None of this is a good reason to change things. Yeah, if I fight CoT at low levels Madness Mages with click defenses will lock me down, sometimes, or if I aim for Psychics and Tsoo in the high end. Knives to a lesser degree, 'cause those damn caltrops! But Toggle Mez Protection has it's own dangers leveling, as well, and at the high end Malta screws Toggled Mez -hard- unless you can stack End Protection. Each option has it's own benefits and downfalls.

Bane Spider: Team-Buffing Stalker with a Mace and Pets Crab Spider: Team-Buffing Blaster with Pets and Defensiveness Huntman: Team Buffing Blaster with Pets Night Widow: Stalker with Psi Blast options and Team Buffs Blood Widow (Fortunata Build): Claw Scrapper with Psi Blast options and Team Buffs Fortunata: Psionic Sentinel with Team Buffs

Cones are actually TAoE which means you get credit for each target you hit and fill up your bar. Pseudopets don't count as hits for -you-, so Burn Patches don't give you Opportunity Percentages for every target hit. Fireball style AoE (Ranged TAoE that isn't a Cone) uses Pseudopets, So you don't get credit for every target hit.

The correct answer is: Why not Both? Which is what the Devs did. Though one particular thing about Sentinels? They've taught me which Blast Powers are actually Pseudopets! Specifically every 'Fireball' style power that explodes on your target is a Pseudopet power. Sentinels build their Opportunity Meter through individual hits, not through the damage of a given power. So when you throw a single target attack you get 10 points of Opportunity added onto your bar. But when you use a Cone power, it checks every target in the area of effect for a hit. And each one adds to your Opportunity bar -separately-. So if you hit 10 targets with a cone your bar instantly fills. But fireball powers -don't- do that. So it must create a pseudopet on your target which creates a PBAoE classified as range with inherited damage values and proc chances. Very cool stuff! Also: USE CONES ALL THE TIME. Seriously, Sonic Blast on Sentinels is -godlike- 'cause you can fill up your bar with any one of 3 powers.

Is the 'omg' because you like it or because of the timing?

Ohhh... Yeah. I have Burnt Toast on Ignore because he's a troll. XD No wonder I didn't see him talking about it. And nah, friendo. "I've read your posts and they don't change the fact" is a dismissive reaction. It collectively dismisses all of those posts without directly addressing any of them. And all of them addressed the "Burden" you put forward by describing the benefits thereof, the ease of dealing with it, and the fact that it creates a soft separation between different playstyles which encourages variety. It's not specifically being INSULTING while dismissing it, sure. But it's still dismissive. It's still you deciding not to address those posts and their points to instead hammer on about how you have a problem with click defenses. And you're still presenting yourself as the victim of some massive angry backlash. It isn't angry, and it isn't massive. It's one guy being rude and other people explaining, in detail, why they disagree with your argument. In large part because chunks of it are factually incorrect.

Because Anime Silliness is, and kind of has always been, a part of Superheroics. After all, Kurosawa Films were super popular in the US in the 70s and 80s and it is from movies like the Seven Samurai that a lot of modern conceptions of what a superhero can do with a katana comes from. Yes, this would be a set with Redraw. Which is why I'm designing it for use with the Instigator (Take 2), for whom Redraw is not an issue. Though a No-Redraw option could be implemented as well to port it to Dominators. This powerset is mainly designed around Ranged Attacks and the Windstrikes ability to go from Ranged to Melee, quickly, and repeatedly. However it is also designed with the intention to use Storm's Edge in Melee Combat as an opener. Specifically that an Instigator who takes /Ninjitsu as a defensive set would be able to use Shinobi Iri to prepare an 'Assassin's Strike' using Storm's Edge and perhaps a Celerity Stealth IO. While other Instigators, and Dominators, would be able to use it effectively as an insta-snipe melee attack after the fighting has already begun. This set is designed this way to better fulfill the illusion of the character being the comic book and anime style 'Ninja Master' who performs unreasonable feats like striking with a sword at long range, though admittedly it's a bit more common in Anime. Characters who use this powerset will be able to use ranged attacks while in melee that animate largely as if they were just melee attacks, with animations lining up appropriately.

The first post to contain the word Troll in this thread is Stryker Gaming's. The second post is Vanden's, in which he comments on the word. No one else has used it. Or if they have, it was Mod-Smited before I could see it and I trawl this subforum more than any others (Because I love suggestions and also make some and have a marginally deeper understanding of the game's systems than some people). No one has said that you 'Lack Experience', either. Or 'Not Caring'. Honestly it looks like all three of these statements are inferences on your part into other people's statements. As to demeaning and belittling... You made a big posts in response to several informative posts in a completely dismissive manner. "I've read your posts, it doesn't change the fact" (paraphrasing). Then you went on to express why it was a personal problem for your specific playstyle where you like to keep Destiny on Auto and can't take Shield Charge, Lightning Rod, and Spring Attack for... some inexplicable reason. You cite Acrobatics but I've never taken that power in my life and I've played Shield Tankers and Brutes to 50 with basically no problem. People said "It's reasonably easy to adapt" and your response was "I've heard that before, but the game should change to suit my style." Also you threw out a bunch of "You -can't-" statements when in fact "You can". At least that's why my second post in the thread was less courteous than the first. But it still wasn't what I would consider belittling or demeaning. Just curt. In the context of leveling: Click Defenses play marginally differently from Toggle Defenses. They require a fraction more awareness and provide some interesting benefits to the cost. So, again, /Jranger

Cyclone hit 50. Now enjoy some Infinite Radial Freem to celebrate!