Frosticus

Unfortunately spec Wounds didn't make the trip over. Dom PA is pretty heavily nerfed compared to troller version, they dont tank, but still a good supplemental damage power. Still a great set though and spec terror at lvl 6 is making early game play a breeze on my ill/sav

You were on a controller right? If so, perfect. Otherwise this isn't making sense. A defender should have boosted the -rech to 2.66%

You can do it any way you prefer. I'm just telling you how the game does it. Only one way matters. You can test this in about 5 mins on testserver if you don't have a TA already. At this point I think you need to do this yourself as you are adamant about maintaining your stance despite the mechanics being explained and Doomrider giving you in-game results vs a +3AV Take care

One more example that should clarify the issue: If an even con AV has 85% smash/lethal resistance and you a apply disruption arrow (40% -res) how much damage does it take from a 100 damage attack? a/ It will be 15 * 1.4 = 21 damage If disruption arrow was unresistable (ie additive flat reduction) b/It would be (85%-40%)*100 = 65 damage Acid arrow is simply a non traditional -resistance debuff. It works the same as disruption arrow mechanically and is resistable (ie multiplicative).

Not quite. The purple patch affects it, but @Voltak is treating it as a flat debuff rather than multiplicative as it actually is. For simplicity you can just use the purple patch numbers. It doesn't matter where you put it in your calculation, but I throw it on the end, just like I would a damage resistance debuff. Vs -1 = 40%x1.11 = 44.4% 0 = 40% +1 = 40%*0.9 = 36% +2= 40%*0.8 = 32% +3 = 40%*0.65 = 26% +4 = 40%*0.48 = 19.2% So vs an even con it always makes a tohit debuff 40% stronger, but it does so after resistances are factored in. In the case of an AV they have resisted the tohit debuff so low that improving it by 40% is still a very low number (as seen with the hurricane examples).

I think I see your main error. You are treating acid arrow like it a flat debuff (additive), but it is multiplicative. You can see this very easily with a power analyzer on a pylon. Use flash arrow and then Acid arrow. @Doomridergave numbers above from in game demonstrating it. For regen vs a +4 (lvl 54AV) your power is first affected by the purple patch which you didn't account for. 500*0.48 = 240% - regen then it has to go through its resistance of 87% = 240*(1-.87) = 31.2% -regen It's also important to look at how much regen actually matters to an AV encounter. They only regen like 100hp/sec. Regen debuffs were way more important back when a top tier scrapper was doing like 150dps. Now that defenders are north of 400dps it is a lot less prominent in overall outcomes. Though they are still very welcome when AV's have a lot of damage resistance that drastically cuts dps.

Thank you for turning off your capslock. It enables a much more pleasant exchange. One where I don't need be curt in response. It will be to your benefit to fire up a power analyzer and test out some of these things because your numbers are really far off. For clarity: A lvl 50 AV has 85% resistance to debuffs not 60% Acid arrow is fully resistible, it is not one of TA's unresistible powers and it is fully affected by the purple patch. For the most part few enemies have specific resistance to any of the unique aspects of the debuff, but there are some. Again, we rarely face +4's in late game from a mechanics standpoint, which is quite important for debuffers as the purple patch hammers them hard. But if you did face a lvl 54 AV at +4 it would look like this: Regen (ie benumb) If a regen debuffer were facing a +4 AV then it would be (500%*0.48)*(100-87%)= 31.2% regen debuff add an acid arrow (facing +4) would increase it to (40%*0.48)*31.2% = 37.19% regen debuff ToHit Debuff Hurricane vs +4 AV would be (59%*0.48)*(13%) = 3.68% tohit debuff add an acid arrow (facing +4) (40%*0.48)*3.68% = 4.39% tohit debuff In a completely non-condescending way I'd suggest you have a look at my poison guide. The section that breaks down Weaken goes in to great detail of how debuffs function and interact with each other, how enemy resistances impact them and what the purple patch does to debuffers. In conclusion, TA is great. Acid arrow is a unique debuff that makes other debuffers (and the user) a little bit better in hard content. It is not a silver bullet.

Sigh. Hurricane is a 59% tohit debuff. (65.5% vs a -1 con) Vs a lvl 50 AV (which is -1 for most of us) it will debuff their tohit by 9.8% If a TA uses acid arrow it now becomes (again -1) 15.2% Storm needs no help vs regular enemies so the acid arrow is redundant. It provides paltry assistance to the stormy vs an AV even at -1. No one is saying TA isn't "the king debuffer" at least not me. Try to keep focused.

Settle down. No one is saying TA isn't great at debuffing. I was commenting on your assertion that acid arrow is what makes it the best. I play with my alpha slotted so mechanically I never face higher than +3 unless exemping down for low content. You might also be confused about what unresistable means. It is still governed by the purple patch. You might also be confused about how certain debuffs are impacted by other mechanics that make unresistable debuffs less effective in some situations. You might also be confused about how much -regen is needed for most encounters and at which point it becomes redundant. 1 (strong regen debuff like lingering rad) makes almost all AV's/GMs manageable. 2 debuffs regen by 84.5%. If your team can't outpace that then there are other concerns. There are some unique encounters that could warrant more.

Maybe a miscommunication. The comment was about acid arrow. I'll give an example: Hurricane can debuff any normal enemy into the ground, but is largely useless vs AV rank. Acid arrow does not suddenly make hurricane viable. Short circuit can flatline endurance recovery (and drain a good %) of any normal enemy. Acid arrow does not suddenly make sapping hugely effective vs AV rank We weren't discussing the unresistable aspects of TA's other powers, but we certainly can. They are great and not great. Unresistable -tohit = big thumbs up Unresistable -damage is only beneficial if the target has significant damage resistance because their resistance will resist your debuff. So things like godmode powers render most damage debuffs mute (which can be a real shock to anyone that leans on that type of mitigation). The inverse is also true. -damage is boosted by -resistance debuffing. So outside of godmode powers many damage debuffers will produce much higher results. That unresistable portion that TA puts out sees no benefit from the -res in the set (or elsewhere). Ice arrow is great. It is a reverse powerboost that I said was a star. Poisons is a bit better is all in that department. TA is a great set, no contention on that. It takes awhile to get all of its debuffs out, but it has a great suite of tools. My response was in regard to acid arrow specifically.

Good question. My ice/sav/psi was planning this same route along with world of confusion. The project stalled in anticipation for ill/sav, so I can't say how well it would all work together in a finished build. That said, ice slick can trigger the proc. I think it rolls 3 times over the life of the slick which is better than nothing. After that it really depends on how much aoe damage you dish out as it is a flat proc chance on attacks. If you just use a pbaoe once in a while it might not do much, but spamming a power like feral charge (5 target 20ft aoe) might have ok results. It is very short duration vs +cons though. Single target you'll have little issue procing it, but then single targets are rarely an issue that a mag 2 confuse would solve.

ill/dark/(psi) is a great choice. Very little in the game it can't solo. One of the strongest self sufficient builds in the game. It isn't my cup of tea though, you need to throw it into extremely difficult scenarios to challenge the strength of the build, but its damage is a bit low for my liking and you spend a lot of time summoning/activating buffs/debuffs. So it ends up feeling like a bit of a slog.

It's a neat debuff, but for the most part debuffing most enemies into the ground is easy enough. The enemies you want to improve debuffing heavily resist acid arrow's effects. For instance it doesn't make sapping or tohit debuffing an AV suddenly viable as a primary strategy. Regen debuffers usually neuter AVs single handily. On the other hand the reverse powerboost of weaken actually cripples AVs like ghostwidow and makes silver mantis way less threatening.

No real suggestions but I really dig the idea of the seismic waves with poison's aura.

Inconsistent endurance costs Gleam and Stalagmites: end cost = 10.4 Flashfire, Wormhole and Heart of Darkness: end cost = 15.6

You are not wrong. I'd forgotten about the days of imp armies, dumpster diving and (near) zero damage perma PA. Perhaps it is best not to dwell on what past devs thought because all that matters is what the current ones envision. They clearly have a problem with illusion having taunting pets (earth has one mind you). I dont see their design intent behind dom PA or phant decoy, but I'm still going to use the set extensively.

PA is a pretty broken power on trollers. The devs are obviously very adverse to repeating that mistake even going so far as to strip the taunt mechanic from the decoy in Phantasm. Keep in mind that when PA was designed high uptime of the power required an entire team dedicated to the purpose. Now there is no reason not to have perma PA on a high level team. That said, they need to decide what role PA is to serve for doms and possibly look at adding a power or two to Phantasm to compensate for the decoy nerf. Is PA intended to be a control power? Maybe they should do fears or confuses? (fits the set pretty well) Is PA simply intended to be an auxiliary damage source? Should likely reduce the % of illusionary damage then and/or look at reducing the base recharge, or extending the duration of the summons. Every control set has 2-3 thematic set defining powers unique to only them (so not gleam). Superior invis and PA are illusion's. Illusion being a strong control set doesn't mean PA (and phantasm) should be swept under the rug. There are fair ways to differentiate dom and controller PA without repeating the mistakes of the OG devs.

I'm partial to Poison. Venomous gas is a good size auto hit aoe that debuffs all the good stuff a nice amount. Then you have envenom and weaken on the harder stuff in the spawn. Very little time spent applying debuffs, but pretty drastically alters the strength of a mob.

ok? it's actually one of your best DPA attacks. avg 258 dmg w/ 1.118 sec cast, but I said power, not attack. It also paints them, grinds them to a halt and applies -20%*.9 = 18% res debuff. An ice/cold corr should prioritize it over every other attack unless scourging and/or under the buff of aim+guassian (freezeray and bib) when using single target attacks. To each their own though.

you guys don't 5 proc infrigidate? It is one of the best powers in the game with near perfect proc chance. Not waiting till 38 for heatloss? yes please. Dominator t8, and 9 attacks at a useable level? thank you

This is a strange conversation. I like both AT's a lot, but one is the strongest AV/GM killer in the game and is agnostic about what enemy it faces and the other is a dominator with nothing more suited to the task than a scrapper. Some doms can rip through TF's pretty nicely though. For example I recently saw a vid of a dominator fighting lvl 53 sinclair. It took like 20 mins with lore pets. Comparatively my ill/cold/stone can drop a lvl 53 sinclair in about 3.5mins w/o lore. (I can't recall how long the 54+3 sinclair in my sig took, but it wasn't more than a few cycles of hybrid). I think many doms are better at the x8 part than controllers, but vs AVs/GMs it isn't in the same realm.

Re: AV's being a little bit better, when the AT is very mediocre, isn't particularly concerning. Confusing AV's is an inefficient gimmick. It might be the best Dom's can do, but a real AV killer will already be moving on to the next target by the time you get it confused. I think many dom's will find that attaining perma PA is a whole different kettle of fish than attaining perma dom. It will be very difficult to hit those levels of recharge AND still have solid defenses considering Dom PA doesn't tank for you. Dark, Plant, Mind, Elec, Symphony, and Earth are all control powerhouses in their own way. I don't see illusion standing above them. Also remember that the only way to increase PA's output is through debuffs. My ill/cold can stack 80-130% -res so the damage some controllers extract from PA might not coincide with what doms experience when using pylons as an example.

I want to expand on PA because I think the devs are throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this power. Troller PA is broken because each attack has a ~25 second taunt. They spam attacks so even lvl 54s are indefinitely taunted by 1 PA, let alone 3. A much shorter duration taunt (2-3 seconds) attached to only a single power would mean that weaker enemies are bamboozled a noticeable amount. More powerful enemies would quickly shrug off the "illusion" of the PA being real and quickly focus on the source (you). Some special mobs even have taunt resistance, which would further allow them to quickly dispel the illusion and seek you out. In some cases it would expire so quickly that you may regain aggro before the next attack vs powerful foes. Short duration limited taunt + the new control powers they posses would make them fit the purpose they were likely always intended to serve.

Ok I've now put in a good number of hrs on an ill/sav/ice (will be making this for sure). Last night I was just working the wall in Cim because those are lvl 54s and pretty nasty melee mobs. Dominator Illusion has no issues taking down those spawns in or out of domination and I was pretty safe in melee range although /sav is unparalleled at getting your around the battle field, so it's not like I just sit there facetanking. My previous feedback remains consistent, but I want to update my thoughts on 2 powers Phantasm: total junk on a melee dom, makes fire imps look sturdy. I will take him on a pure ranged ill/fire though because I pull all the agro at range while he hangs out with PA in "relative" safety. Just fix the AI so it hangs at range then it will be useful for melee doms and ranged doms (that don't stand beside it). What is the purpose of him casting "decoy" if it does nothing of the sort? Maybe dom Phantasm should do something different? PA: I get why doms won't get the troller version. I've abused the hell out of that power on my ill/cold. Right now this power is like if seeker drones had a baby with fire imps. They absorb the alpha and then die a short time later (60 sec duration). My suggestion is to give their punch power(s) a very short duration taunt. Just enough for an enemy to occasionally get fooled and direct a single attack at them. This set is good, maybe even great. But as far as being an "illusionist" it pales in comparison to the troller version. Trollers make such strong illusions that they can convince everything in the game they are real (too strong). Doms can't even fool skuls with their illusions (too weak)... there has to be a middle ground no? Bonus: spec terror needs to dominate. All control powers should dominate, this is no different.

Plant/fire dom Ice/ta blaster Fire/Dark Corr All have good damage with good control. They have tools to stay at range and have no incentive or alternate builds that perform "better" in melee. For instance melee Fortunatas do way more damage, so pure ranged builds always have that gnawing at them. Hover sentinel -Pick one with a ranged nuke and it will sail thru most of the game allowing you to slowly turn up difficulty or engage new enemy types with confidence