Allow pet slotting in MM upgrade powers to ease slotting pressure, normalize aura radii

[Warlawk]

MM Henchmen had serious survivability issues so the pet defense/resisit aura IOs were added to help alleviate that. Over time this has come to be 6 IOs worth of defensive boost. While this is a bit of slot tax, more importantly they can only be slotted into pet powers. Some MM sets have an extra pet power that allows them to mule these IOs without taking up slots in the Henchmen themselves. This creates an issue where 3 sets have much more freedom for slotting their pets than the other sets do. Since the summon powers are going to be the VAST majority of the damage for your character having 6 of 18 slots locked out is pretty rough.

 

@Twintania (Everfreefire in Discord) gave this suggestion and I think it could go a long way in easing some pressure. Simply change the flagging on the Upgrade powers in the primary to allow pet damage, ATO and Recharge intensive pet IO sets to be slotted there. This would retain the tax slot aspect so as not cause major power creep while still helping some of the low performing sets.

 

An additional related change would be making the aura radius uniform across the auras. Having everything match the Supremacy radius of 60' would go a long way in keeping pets from instantly dying when they move around a bit. It would reward MMs who keep a good leash on their pets with higher survivability.

[Razor Cure]

Good idea. It's unfair some sets cant fit them in extra powers.

[Sniktch]

As a...sidegrade? idea to this:

 

Make the MM ATOs be, instead of "Pet Set". Universal Damage.  Can still be slotted in pets - but can also be slotted in the attacks.  While the MM attacks will still be eh at best, this might maybe possibly get them to be something other than a hardpass or concept gimmick.  Mechanically, this is a lot easier than changing what sets the upgrades can take, and gives them parity to all other ATOs except Controller and Dom (which have their own issues, sadly).

[Razor Cure]

That is also a good idea. I don't like MM attacks myself, but if someone wants to, let them throw ATOs in there. The Pet procs are already global (applied to all your pets) so slotting them into an attack wouldnt be crazy.

[Twintania]

The reason for the upgrades was mostly because all MMs will take them,  so they would always have at least two slots for the IOs without breaking builds.  This is a slightly less drastic version of the initial idea,  where the IOs would be built into either supremacy or the upgrades and allow for more interesting procs for pet sets. 

 

We were,  at the time,  trying to avoid making the personal attacks mandatory due to conversations about it earlier.  Also,  that would only take care of 2 of the six IOs if you change just the MM ATOs. Helpful,  but not enough. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Twintania

[EyeLuvBooks]

This is one of those 'I agree that something needs to be done but I'm not sure what' threads. MMs are (or were on Live) very popular but many don't get into high-end play because of the per survivability. At lower levels it's fine but north of the mid to upper 30s teams start steamrolling and nobody wants to be THAT GUY who has to either miss out on some of the action to resummon or ask people to wait.

 

I would much rather see the Supremacy buffed slightly so not every MM player felt they HAD to take every Pet buff available. I don't think the original Devs wanted players to feel as though they HAD to build characters a certain way.

 

I'd like to see numbers (because research is fun!) but I'd be willing to be that NOBODY is going to call MMs OP at this time so a slight buff to the Inherent power isn't likely to break anything.

[Twintania]

19 minutes ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

I would much rather see the Supremacy buffed slightly so not every MM player felt they HAD to take every Pet buff available. I don't think the original Devs wanted players to feel as though they HAD to build characters a certain way.

This right here is why I had thought about just binding the aura buffs into either Supremacy itself, or gained as you gain the Upgrades (Which every MM will take unless some weird variant). This allows all MMs to have the buffs, no strings attached, and lets us have something more fun for the IO procs.

 

Quote

I'd like to see numbers (because research is fun!) but I'd be willing to be that NOBODY is going to call MMs OP at this time so a slight buff to the Inherent power isn't likely to break anything.

Issue with this is, as of the post involving all the ATs and whatnot, is that MMs are the third most popular AT in the game. Some people may take issue with what is basically a quality of life buff.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Twintania

[EyeLuvBooks]

2 minutes ago, Twintania said:

This right here is why I had thought about just binding the aura buffs into either Supremacy itself, or gained as you gain the Upgrades (Which every MM will take unless some weird variant). This allows all MMs to have the buffs, no strings attached, and lets us have something more fun for the IO procs.

And THIS right here is why I'm not a game designer. I profess to be a MM expert given all my THOUSANDS of hours playing them and I never even thought of putting it into the Upgrade powers.

 

Well done!

[Twintania]

2 hours ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

And THIS right here is why I'm not a game designer. I profess to be a MM expert given all my THOUSANDS of hours playing them and I never even thought of putting it into the Upgrade powers.

 

Well done!

That why in the initial discussion we decided the simplest would be just allowing the IOs to be slotted into the Upgrades. It won't change the fact that the IOs are a slot tax on MMs, basically, but it will change the fact that all MM henchmen will get to be slotted at full power and allow the Procs to be used without having to take slot space from elsewhere. Now, you still need to burn an extra 4 slots with this idea, but even without that's 2 free proc slots.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Twintania
Wording for clarity

[SmalltalkJava]

The upgrades idea is a good one.  I like it.  It opens up options for slotting.  

[Vanden]

This is a really sticky issue. I've said before that I think modifying powers just to make them capable of being IO mules is a bad idea, but the MM primaries that have that extra power able to slot pet IOs really do have a significant edge over the ones without it. A much better solution would've been to just not add SIX (!!) different defense aura IOs in the first place, but that ship has sailed. Any increase in pet base survivability is going to be multiplicative with all those IOs in play, and it makes the whole thing pretty much a lose-lose situation.