Clave Dark 5 Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 I frequently cut and paste stuff from these forums, suggestions and helpful tricks, into a document just to help me remember them for later, like if I see something good to know about Masterminds even if I'm not running one this week or whatever. So then sometimes later I go over the document to clean it up, consolidate information etc. Doing so just now, I found two contradictory claims about bodyguard mode that I was hoping could be cleared up for me by you wise guys: One section said bodyguard mode was "defensive follow" and that any "stay" or "goto" take pets out of bodyguard mode. The other section said that Stay Defensive / Goto Defensive / Follow Defensive are bodyguard mode. So which is it? Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
Redlynne Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Bodyguard Mode Quote Bodyguard Issue 7 brings with it a a new defensive feature for Masterminds, Bodyguard. The following was copied directly from the Patch Notes when Issue 7 went live on 6/6/06. Mastermind Bodyguards: You can set any Mastermind pet to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow(*) Orders. Your pets must be within Supremacy range for this function to work. Bodyguard Damage Mitigation: When set to Bodyguard mode, the Mastermind and his pets share damage from any attack that the Mastermind takes damage from. Each pet takes one 'share' of the damage, and the Mastermind himself takes two 'shares'. This is in addition to any damage that the pets themselves might incur from Area attacks. Example: If a Mastermind has 3 pets set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with a 100 point attack, each pet will take 20 points of the damage, and he himself will take 40 points. Example 2: If a Mastermind has 3 pets set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with an Area Effect attack for 10 points of damage, then each pet will take 2 points of damage, and he himself will take 4 points. Pets that were also in the Area of Effect will take an additional 10 points each, as normal. (*) Defensive/Goto and Defensive/Stay also work. Edited September 16, 2019 by Redlynne 1 Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Clave Dark 5 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Posted September 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Redlynne said: Bodyguard Mode I'd have believed you, no need to drag out the patch notes cut and paste, ha ha! But now I do wonder who's walking around in the game thinking there's more than just the one method to get into bodyguard mode... Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
SmalltalkJava Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said: But now I do wonder who's walking around in the game thinking there's more than just the one method to get into bodyguard mode... Me. Because I’ve never actually tested. Defensive/stay. Or defensive/goto I have tested Passive combinations. And they do not work. Nevermind. I Misread Edited September 16, 2019 by SmalltalkJava 1 Baseline MM Henchmen Defenses and Resist Values MM - Beast Pets - Pet Attack usage and some quick proc testing
Redlynne Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Clave Dark 5 said: I'd have believed you, no need to drag out the patch notes cut and paste, ha ha! Well ... I wasn't just answering you. I was also answering for anyone else who might have the same question. Citing sources like that simply lets you verify that what I'm saying has validity, rather than just taking it on faith that I know what I'm talking about. /em shrug 4 Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
SmalltalkJava Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Redlynne said: (*) Defensive/Goto and Defensive/Stay also work. This should be BOLD AND STICKIED!!! That is what causes most confusion for people. I always misread that because it’s written as an after-thought. (*) Defensive/Goto and Defensive/Stay also work Edited September 16, 2019 by SmalltalkJava 1 Baseline MM Henchmen Defenses and Resist Values MM - Beast Pets - Pet Attack usage and some quick proc testing
Clave Dark 5 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, SmalltalkJava said: This should be BOLD AND STICKIED!!! That is what causes most confusion for people. I always misread that because it’s written as an after-thought. (*) Defensive/Goto and Defensive/Stay also work I hate to say it, but I didn't even see that addendum down there until right now. Nuther example of the importance of clear writing. And careful reading. Edited September 16, 2019 by Clave Dark 5 Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
Redlynne Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 Easiest way to explain it is ... so long as your Pets are in Defensive mode AND have not been commanded to Attack, they're in Bodyguard mode. That's because ... Defensive + Follow Defensive + Stay Defensive + Goto ... all engage Bodyguard mode. 1 Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
slacktech Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Redlynne said: Easiest way to explain it is ... so long as your Pets are in Defensive mode AND have not been commanded to Attack, they're in Bodyguard mode. That's because ... Defensive + Follow Defensive + Stay Defensive + Goto ... all engage Bodyguard mode. Maybe I'm misreading things, but I don't believe this is completely correct. This is the bit that makes me think that 'stay' and 'goto' might deactivate BG mode in certain scenarios; Mastermind Bodyguards: You can set any Mastermind pet to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow(*) Orders. Your pets must be within Supremacy range for this function to work. So, by my logic, if the pets go outside the range of Supremacy then the MM will take 100% of the damage they receive. This is why I only use 'Defensive & Follow' if I want BG mode active, as I know this will keep the pets in Supremacy range. Or is my logic incorrect? Edited September 16, 2019 by slacktech.oz added words 'in certain scenarios' and 'if I want BG mode active' for clarity 1
Redlynne Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 Fine. If you want to be utterly pedantic about it ... Bodyguard Mode requires: Defensive + Follow Defensive + Stay Defensive + Goto Pets to remain within Supremacy range of their Mastermind 1 Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
slacktech Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 I didn't want to be utterly pedantic. I did, however, want to point out a very important element of the mechanic so that players don't send their pets (or leave their pets) across a map and still expect BG mode to be active. I apologise if I caused offence. 1
Ekimmak Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 The sad thing being even follow isn't going to keep them in bodyguard range, as they may decide to go hunt an enemy that ran away. 1
TheSpiritFox Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 On 9/15/2019 at 11:23 PM, slacktech.oz said: Maybe I'm misreading things, but I don't believe this is completely correct. This is the bit that makes me think that 'stay' and 'goto' might deactivate BG mode in certain scenarios; Mastermind Bodyguards: You can set any Mastermind pet to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow(*) Orders. Your pets must be within Supremacy range for this function to work. So, by my logic, if the pets go outside the range of Supremacy then the MM will take 100% of the damage they receive. This is why I only use 'Defensive & Follow' if I want BG mode active, as I know this will keep the pets in Supremacy range. Or is my logic incorrect? Mostly. I never use defensive stay. It locks your bots strictly into their ranges and sometimes they need to move for better shots. But defensive goto is an EXCELLENT command for moving your bots back into an area. It will disengage them from attacking for a moment, but they'll pick back up as soon as the next attack shoots at anyone in your team. Defensive goto is my most used macro because it allows you to choose the bots positioning. Use defensive goto to move the bots into a mob with you in defensive mode. You can use that so that rather than responsive follow ai they go directly to and try to stay where you put them. I generally defensive goto into crowds, then start dropping traps right in the middle of them as my bots aggro. Defensive goto is crucial for keeping bodyguard mode in maps like circle caverns where there's narrow walkways and lots of height changes at times. It's the first button I click every single time I engage anything. 1
MirrorDarkly Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 Does anyone know how resistance is applied to the damage split by bodyguard? For example let's say my MM has two pets nearby and is hit for 100 points of raw damage. Let's also say she has 25% resistance to that type of damage and her pets each have 50% resistance. Is the damage split then resistance applied so she would take 37.5 damage ((100/2) * .75) and each pet takes 12.5 ((100/4) * .5) or does something else happen?
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, MirrorDarkly said: Does anyone know how resistance is applied to the damage split by bodyguard? For example let's say my MM has two pets nearby and is hit for 100 points of raw damage. Let's also say she has 25% resistance to that type of damage and her pets each have 50% resistance. Is the damage split then resistance applied so she would take 37.5 damage ((100/2) * .75) and each pet takes 12.5 ((100/4) * .5) or does something else happen? I believe that the way it works is that you take the number of pets that are alive, add 2, then divide the damage by that number; Pets take 1 share of the damage, and you take those 2 shares. To my knowledge, this damage is calculated after any damage resistances you have, but pets take the full damage of their "share". Here is an article with more information on Bodyguard... 1
MirrorDarkly Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, biostem said: I believe that the way it works is that you take the number of pets that are alive, add 2, then divide the damage by that number; Pets take 1 share of the damage, and you take those 2 shares. To my knowledge, this damage is calculated after any damage resistances you have, but pets take the full damage of their "share". Here is an article with more information on Bodyguard... Thanks. I agree with the share part and I have always assumed the damage was split after your resistance and bypassed the henchmens. But it occured to me that I don't have any justification for thinking it works that way and the article doesn't say anything about how resistance is applied so I figured I'd see if anyone has tested it. Edit: I'll see of I can test when I get off work later tonight of no one has. Edited September 25, 2019 by MirrorDarkly 1
MirrorDarkly Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 3 hours ago, biostem said: To my knowledge, this damage is calculated after any damage resistances you have, but pets take the full damage of their "share". This does appear to be the case. When I got hit my henchmen protected me from 22.86 damage and each of the four demons took 5.71 damage. So it's after the MM's resistance ignoring the henchmen's. 1
Clave Dark 5 Posted September 26, 2019 Author Posted September 26, 2019 I've built my current MM, perhaps not well but, for a tankermind and BG mode hasn't seemed to do me too many favors either. I mean, it's not like I'm dying every other mob or anything, but... maybe I just don't 100% get it somehow. My MM himself could be tougher, have more defense or resists or something, which I'll be looking into here as he just hit 50. I've often left them in defensive follow and then set up the mob and walked into them, which triggers the alpha strike which in turn triggers my Mercs to uh start triggering. It's a decent way to live, I guess, but I thought it might feel more awesome somehow, more like a tank, I guess? Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
SmalltalkJava Posted September 26, 2019 Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) Test Results for Henchman's resists and any possible impact on their Bodyguard damage share. Same mob in a PI instance: Level 51 Council Empire Adjutant (Lieutenant) I did have to leave and reset the zone a few times. All data was gathered against the same orange con "Level 51 Council Empire Adjutant (Lieutenant)" type. This test was with me putting the pets in Defensive/Stay and then when I moved in and took the first attack, I spammed my "GOTO" mouse bind to delay them from coming into attack. So it actually tests both Defensive Stay and Defensive Goto. In addition to the pets resists impact on their damage share. This was not an easy test to do! I had to repeat it over and over until I could get the Adjutant to open his salvo with the same attack. He would open with about 5 different attacks sometimes. And sometimes they would miss, so I just tried to capture his first attack then put the pets on passive and then I'd run off, wait a bit and then come back and try again. I tried not to let the pets kill the Adjutant if i could help it. I logged quite a few different attacks, but grenade was the first one where I could get a test set completed. Then there was a weird thing where bodyguard would only hit 5 of my pets and not the whole 6. Generally, it was one of the small demonlings that wouldn't take any damage at all. I'm not sure if it was a distance thing with supremacy or if it was just the Demon Prince's wide a$$ blocking line of sight on a pet. It was a balancing act to keep them in supremacy range and still get initial aggro. It was very frustrating. Test 1: Control Test - No Nature Resist buff on me or pets Spoiler -- My damage taken log [10:00:53] Your henchmen protect you from 21.25 damage. [10:00:53] Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 7.07 points of smashing damage! [10:00:53] Your henchmen protect you from 49.59 damage. [10:00:53] Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 16.52 points of lethal damage! ----- Pet Damage Taken Log [10:00:53] Ember Demon: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 3.53 points of smashing damage! [10:00:53] Hellfire Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 3.53 points of smashing damage! [10:00:53] Cold Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 3.53 points of smashing damage! [10:00:53] Fiery Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 3.53 points of smashing damage! [10:00:53] Hellfire Gargoyle: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 3.53 points of smashing damage! [10:00:53] Demon Prince: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 3.53 points of smashing damage! [10:00:53] Ember Demon: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 8.25 points of lethal damage! [10:00:53] Hellfire Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 8.25 points of lethal damage! [10:00:53] Cold Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 8.25 points of lethal damage! [10:00:53] Fiery Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 8.25 points of lethal damage! [10:00:53] Hellfire Gargoyle: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 8.25 points of lethal damage! [10:00:53] Demon Prince: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 8.25 points of lethal damage! Test 2: Nature resist Buff on myself and Pet Spoiler -- My damage taken log [09:16:12] Your henchmen protect you from 17.40 damage. [09:16:12] Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 5.79 points of smashing damage! [09:16:12] Your henchmen protect you from 40.59 damage. [09:16:12] Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 13.52 points of lethal damage! ----- Pet Damage Taken Log [09:16:12] Demon Prince: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:16:12] Hellfire Gargoyle: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:16:12] Ember Demon: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:16:12] Hellfire Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:16:12] Cold Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:16:12] Fiery Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:16:12] Demon Prince: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:16:12] Hellfire Gargoyle: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:16:12] Ember Demon: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:16:12] Hellfire Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:16:12] Cold Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:16:12] Fiery Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! Test 3: Nature Resist Buff on Myself Only Spoiler -- My damage taken log [09:44:32] Your henchmen protect you from 17.40 damage. [09:44:32] Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 5.79 points of smashing damage! [09:44:32] Your henchmen protect you from 40.59 damage. [09:44:32] Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 13.52 points of lethal damage! ----- Pet Damage Taken Log [09:44:32] Hellfire Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:44:32] Cold Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:44:32] Fiery Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:44:32] Hellfire Gargoyle: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:44:32] Ember Demon: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:44:32] Demon Prince: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 2.89 points of smashing damage! [09:44:32] Hellfire Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:44:32] Cold Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:44:32] Fiery Demonling: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:44:32] Hellfire Gargoyle: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:44:32] Ember Demon: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! [09:44:32] Demon Prince: Council Empire Adjutant hits you with his Grenade for 6.76 points of lethal damage! My Conclusions It seems that the Henchman's Resists DO NOT lower their share of bodyguard damage. Defensive Goto and Defensive Stay are valid states for Bodyguard Mode Edited September 26, 2019 by SmalltalkJava actual test results 2 Baseline MM Henchmen Defenses and Resist Values MM - Beast Pets - Pet Attack usage and some quick proc testing
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