Moka Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 People are entirely just grumpy brutes will no longer be "Tanker, but better" and be the more damage oriented alternative and resemble the bastard child of tanker/scrapper it was always meant to be. According to Captain Powerhouse, brutes have nothing but even better things in store for them. The increase to the fury bar will guarantee they don't fall behind. Similar to how a stalker is less aoe oriented than a scrapper, brutes will deal with a smaller amount of enemies much faster, while a tanker's lower damage is balanced by being able to hit more things at once. At the end of the day, the brute will more than likely always finish a mob first, assuming they're using the same powersets in comparison. It would be unfair to compare say a stone melee brute versus a titan weapons tanker. Brutes are going to be stronger than they ever were before. Brutes should really like this change. And they're not going to get this change unless tanker gets brought up to match it in their own way. 4
DarknessEternal Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Moka said: People are entirely just grumpy brutes will no longer be "Tanker, but better" and be the more damage oriented alternative and resemble the bastard child of tanker/scrapper it was always meant to be. According to Captain Powerhouse, brutes have nothing but even better things in store for them. The increase to the fury bar will guarantee they don't fall behind. Similar to how a stalker is less aoe oriented than a scrapper, brutes will deal with a smaller amount of enemies much faster, while a tanker's lower damage is balanced by being able to hit more things at once. At the end of the day, the brute will more than likely always finish a mob first, assuming they're using the same powersets in comparison. It would be unfair to compare say a stone melee brute versus a titan weapons tanker. Brutes are going to be stronger than they ever were before. Brutes should really like this change. And they're not going to get this change unless tanker gets brought up to match it in their own way. 1. So it's ok for tankers to be "brutes, but better"? That's what is happening with the target cap changes. 2. Brutes are getting straight nerfed. Damage is going down. And there's no change to Fury. You're just making that part up.
DarknessEternal Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, Moka said: Unless a tank just has an infinite amount of reds to pop, Why wouldn't they? It's trivial to constantly be damage capped solo.
DarknessEternal Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Infinitum said: This is am equitable solution that I have tested. Get back to testing then. I spend more time on the test realm than live. Tanks clear maps faster than Brutes with these target cap changes. This is not theoretical.
Moka Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said: Why wouldn't they? It's trivial to constantly be damage capped solo. Why wouldn't a brute do the same thing, then? 3 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said: 1. So it's ok for tankers to be "brutes, but better"? That's what is happening with the target cap changes. 2. Brutes are getting straight nerfed. Damage is going down. And there's no change to Fury. You're just making that part up. 2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said: Fury gain on teams is being tweaked on next patch (whenever that hits, sorry got no ETA on that yet.) On 10/12/2019 at 12:34 PM, Captain Powerhouse said: OK I hope this calms down the last few days of discussions: brutes wont be nerfed any further. In fact, the next patch has a buff to brute fury generation on teams. And just tongue in cheek: the only way brute resist cap would go down to 85% is if tanker resist cap also goes down to 85%. But there is no plan to do that at this time (or ever, ever ever.) But I'm making stuff up. Nowhere did I say tankers will be better. In fact, I said brutes will still be better at mob clearing. There's very few instances a tanker will be preferred for this. Brutes are losing...25? 50% damage to the fury cap which may sound like a lot, but they still have a 700 or so damage cap versus the tanker's 500. 3
DarknessEternal Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Moka said: Why wouldn't a brute do the same thing, then? They will. I've always maintained that all damage should be considered at capped amounts because of this. Brute changes a year after the tank changes take place should not be considered relevant to this topic. If their plan is to make Tanks better for a year, then make Brutes better after that, they should come up with a new plan. This is doubly true since only Fury is mentioned as a thing being changed. Fury can be 0, and it would make no difference. Damage will always be capped. Edited November 7, 2019 by DarknessEternal 1
Moka Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 Just now, DarknessEternal said: They will. I've always maintained that all damage should be considered at capped amounts because of this. Brute changes a year after the tank changes take place should not be considered relevant to this topic. If their plan is to make Tanks better for a year, then make Brutes better after that, they should come up with a new plan. It's not a year later. Did you even read? It's the next patch. To go with tanker changes. 1 1
DarknessEternal Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 Did you not read the rest of the post where I pointed out how Fury makes zero difference?
Haijinx Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 3 hours ago, DarknessEternal said: If the current aoe changes to tanks goes live, there’s no amount of work a brute could do to out damage tank. It’s mathematically impossible. Except for the fact the tanker will often not hit their target caps and stuff 3
DarknessEternal Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Haijinx said: Except for the fact the tanker will often not hit their target caps and stuff Why do you think this is true? It's certainly not my experience of how the game plays. Damage caps and target caps are trivial. Edited November 7, 2019 by DarknessEternal 1
Haijinx Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, DarknessEternal said: Why do you think this is true? It's certainly not my experience of how the game plays. Damage caps and target caps are trivial. In a farm maybe. On a team where chaos reigns, no. 3
Gobbledigook Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 The best way to resolve this nitpicking is to release it and see how it goes. Adjust it where it needs it later. I am sure Brutes can handle not being number one, if it is that way, for a few weeks whilst more in game testing is done :). Tankers are buffed and Brutes will be buffed....Win Win! 1
Moka Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said: Did you not read the rest of the post where I pointed out how Fury makes zero difference? How does it not? That's like an entire column of reds, perhaps even two, that don't need to be popped in place of what a tanker would need to pop to do the same damage. Not to mention a brute at around 80-90 fury is equal to a tanker's single use of build up. Edited November 7, 2019 by Moka 1
DarknessEternal Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Moka said: How does it not? That's like an entire column of reds, perhaps even two, that don't need to be popped in place of what a tanker would need to pop to do the same damage. So? I use red inspirations as soon as I get or convert them and I'm always over the live brute damage cap. Do you not use inspirations? Is that the source of this disconnect? Am I the oddball because I only use red inspirations and I never save them?
Infinitum Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said: 1. So it's ok for tankers to be "brutes, but better"? That's what is happening with the target cap changes. 2. Brutes are getting straight nerfed. Damage is going down. And there's no change to Fury. You're just making that part up. No they aren't, by any definition its only a slight nerf to the cap. Which in my testing isnt noticeable. At all. 1
Bossk_Hogg Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Haijinx said: In a farm maybe. On a team where chaos reigns, no. Exactly. After half a second for the opening salvo to land, the tank's higher target cap means very little. It really doesnt matter who technically killed a couple more minions that were killed five times over from all the nukes that hit them. I guess this might encourage tankers to herd a couple more groups together, but that takes time, where the brute lead tanking team just runs from spawn. 2
Infinitum Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said: So? I use red inspirations as soon as I get or convert them and I'm always over the live brute damage cap. Do you not use inspirations? Is that the source of this disconnect? Am I the oddball because I only use red inspirations and I never save them? Wait a sec are your complaints farming related?
Auroxis Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said: The best way to resolve this nitpicking is to release it and see how it goes. Adjust it where it needs it later. I am sure Brutes can handle not being number one, if it is that way, for a few weeks whilst more in game testing is done :). Tankers are buffed and Brutes will be buffed....Win Win! That's called power creep. Brutes don't need a buff. 1 1
Moka Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said: So? I use red inspirations as soon as I get or convert them and I'm always over the live brute damage cap. Do you not use inspirations? Is that the source of this disconnect? Am I the oddball because I only use red inspirations and I never save them? I use inspirations all the time. The damage cap for brutes will always mean you're outperforming a tanker. The only one disconnected is you. 4
Moka Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 Just now, Auroxis said: That's called power creep. Brutes don't need a buff. They don't, but we're not getting that tanker change without it. Just smile and nod. 4
Infinitum Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Moka said: They don't, but we're not getting that tanker change without it. Just smile and nod. Thank you sur may I have some mooor please. 2
Auroxis Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Moka said: I use inspirations all the time. The damage cap for brutes will always mean you're outperforming a tanker. The only one disconnected is you. +200% isn't enough to off-set the AoE advantages. 1 minute ago, Moka said: They don't, but we're not getting that tanker change without it. Just smile and nod. "Just smile and nod"? Is this what this thread has come to? 1
Starforge Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 Just now, Auroxis said: "Just smile and nod"? Is this what this thread has come to? I mean, I haven't read most of the recent pages but I don't think it's taking a shot in the dark to guess that a lot of people are upset another AT is getting brought up which makes their special snowflake AT lesser in their eyes because of it. So yeah, might as well just let it happen and see how it actually performs in a live setting. 4
Haijinx Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Infinitum said: Wait a sec are your complaints farming related? Sure seems to be. In that case we can get rid of all ATs except brutes, and remove 2/3rds of the power sets. 4
Moka Posted November 7, 2019 Posted November 7, 2019 Just now, Auroxis said: +200% isn't enough to off-set the AoE advantages. "Just smile and nod"? Is this what this thread has come to? When you have a bunch of people upset that the main tanking class in the game is going to be able to herd better than it did before, apparently so. 1
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