Blaster Secondaries: Why?

[Rikmach]

On 10/29/2019 at 2:48 AM, RialVestro said:

That is a decent point though I would assume that all content would have been updated along with the introduction of Incarnates because the game would be ridiculously easy if they didn't. Similar to how the enemies would scale up if you started at a higher level than 35. It should scale up for incarnates as well.

Uh.

 

How would you propose they do that?  Incarnates aren't just at a higher level, they're granted entirely new, incredibly powerful abilities intended to allow them to triumph over Incarnate-specific content.  I mean, outside of the Trials, the only Incarnate-specific content we have is Dark Astoria, and that functioned by completely revamping the enemies involved, creating incarnate-specific versions with new powers, not just "Scaling them up", remaking every bit of old content to become a new, revamped Incarnate version if the person playing it is an Incarnate is wildly impractical in terms of developer resources-  plus, it'd be kinda silly in-universe.

 

Not to mention that, Incarnates aren't the only power boost the playerbase has gotten over the years.   Hamidon Origin Enhancements let you functionally cram more enhancements into fewer slots.   Invention Origin Enhancements did that, too, *and* gave you bonus stat boosts on top if you slotted sets, and that's not even mentioning procs.   The game does not, and has never detected these and "scaled" the game to take them into account.   The only scaling it does is based on level, and level alone.   HOs, IOs, and Incarnate Powers make you objectively stronger than an otherwise identical hero that does not have them.  And you're right, it *can* make things ridiculously easy-  that's why there's a difficulty slider- you might not be aware, you can make the game harder when it's not challenging enough for you?

 

On 10/29/2019 at 2:48 AM, RialVestro said:

Sorry you're claiming that something designed to be a challenge for teams can be easily soloed and you think I lack understanding of game mechanics? You can't throw out an unbelievable claim like that and expect people to just accept that as true. Of course I'm going to assume it's faked because that I know is possible where as soloing something meant for a team I have never seen before.

 

Oh and how is telling someone that you need a team to successfully complete a TF designed for a team detrimental? You got that totally backwards. Telling them they CAN solo the ITF is detrimental. You're going to get some poor noob killed if they buy that BS. If I'm wrong nothing bad happens because I'm not the one telling them to solo one of the hardest challenges in the game with a Blaster!

 

Oh and anyone can solo a Giant Monster... as long as that GM is named Sally. 😉 She only has 1 HP.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Task Forces can be easily Soloed, Rial, just that they can be soloed.  Like, Soloing Task Forces has been a self-imposed challenge for the playerbase since pretty much day one- I remember the old days when people would debate back and forth on optimal builds and strategies on how to do it.  And this was back in the days before a lot of the stuff I mentioned before existed!  Honestly, because of all the edges players have now, it's almost mundane when people say that they've soloed a Task Forces-  That's probably why you're getting so much blowback here.   People soloing Task Forces is old news and common knowledge.

 

And I'm not entirely following you on why us talking about the well-known fact of Soloing Task Forces is detrimental-  like, your worst case scenario is a noob might get killed.

 

Like...

 

Yeah?

 

Noobs get killed a lot, by things a lot easier than a task force.   They're Noobs.  They die a lot, for a lot of reasons.   And like, that's not much of a problem.  Like, sure, they get debt, but so what?  It's pretty much one of the least punishing death mechanics I've encountered in online games.  I don't think the fact that people factually state that they've beaten a task force solo because they're highly skilled and have a well-built characters is going to have a significant impact on noob mortality one way or another.   And if they want to try to solo a Task Force without bothering to try and understand *how* someone accomplished such a feat?  Well, really, that's their own fault.   It's not like we're on this thread sneakily attempting to convince the noobs that might stumble across it into racking up a bunch of debt.   That's just silly.  

[jshmoe1236123]

9 hours ago, RialVestro said:

lol I love the reference.

 

Seriously though... I'll make a post the next time I'm home with how long I'm going to be home... and hopefully at a time where I actually have power. Freaking PG&E... We'll jump on the Excelsior, start an ITF. I'll help you with everything except Romulus and the Lesser Nictus in the final mission. You beat that on your own I'll put it into every chat channel possible right then and there that I was wrong. You die, you do the same. You don't even show up at the time I set, you don't even talk to me anymore. That's my deal.

I can't believe you use the word impossible when describing the chance of doing this feat.  Impossible?  You really think nobody is going around in this game every day doing things that weren't exactly intended by the devs in terms of difficulty?  Look how powerful we've become.  You can't even slightly open the door to a possibility that just maybe it's possible?  Is this how you approach the game when you play?  "Welp, I must turn back now, I wasn't intended to do this."  You haven't thought about trying to push your toons and create things that do just that, "break the rules?"  Are you the horse tied to a chair thinking it can't go anywhere simply because he's tied up to something?  

 

I'll give you skeptical, but impossible from any AT?  Come on...  In you vast knowledge of game mechanics, you can't watch the video posted in this thread and think that maybe with that strategy and technique and, with all the Incarnate and IO abilities we have now, that just maybe it's possible even if you think the video is faked?  Also, using your vast knowledge of game mechanics, dissect that video and tell us why that Blaster's technique in taking down Rom wouldn't work.  

[Doomrider]

Okay, I found 3 more ppl with solo ITF videos... must all be fake... so impossibru nothing to see here... I'll post anyway though because reasons.
 

 

 

Again, totally not worth watching totally fake, nothing to see here u guise /s #believealltrolls

[jshmoe1236123]

In the spirit of posting fake videos. @MunkiLord and I duo'd the STF with our Scrappers.  No it's not a fake solo, but we are still doing something that wasn't originally intended.  Wait, sorry, we didn't do it because we faked it.  Here is us not doing it:

 

 

hashtag fakevideos

Edited October 30, 2019 by jshmoe1236123

[MunkiLord]

It took @jshmoe1236123 a long time to edit that video. Plus we also had to start a thread in Scrapper forums and have that discussion to give our fake video a good cover to make it more believable. Making a two hour and 47 minute video took about four times that long, but it was totally worth it to fake out the community. 

[jshmoe1236123]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

It took @jshmoe1236123 a long time to edit that video. Plus we also had to start a thread in Scrapper forums and have that discussion to give our fake video a good cover to make it more believable. Making a two hour and 47 minute video took about four times that long, but it was totally worth it to fake out the community. 

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to rat us out.  I thought my video skills were up there with Michael Bay.  I need more practice.

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, jshmoe1236123 said:

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to rat us out.  I thought my video skills were up there with Michael Bay.  I need more practice.

Nobody has the video skills of Michael Bay, or directorial talent. Bad Boys 2 > Godfather 2!!!!!!!!! 

 

Maybe if we spent time playing the game instead of faking videos, we'd be able to make a real video some day?

[jshmoe1236123]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

Nobody has the video skills of Michael Bay, or directorial talent. Bad Boys 2 > Godfather 2!!!!!!!!! 

 

Maybe if we spent time playing the game instead of faking videos, we'd be able to make a real video some day?

Maybe one day we'd understand the game mechanics and realize that we shouldn't be doing things like this because it's IMPOSSIBLE.

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

Nobody has the video skills of Michael Bay, or directorial talent. Bad Boys 2 > Godfather 2!!!!!!!!! 

 

Maybe if we spent time playing the game instead of faking videos, we'd be able to make a real video some day?

You guys should cut back on the sarcasm.  I honestly don't think Rial is smart enough to tell that you're joking.  

[MunkiLord]

4 minutes ago, jshmoe1236123 said:

Maybe one day we'd understand the game mechanics and realize that we shouldn't be doing things like this because it's IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by MunkiLord

[MunkiLord]

Just now, Omega-202 said:

You guys should cut back on the sarcasm.  I honestly don't think Rial is smart enough to tell that you're joking.  

All I know is that I've watched Bad Boys 2 more recently than Godfather 2. It was only by a week, but still.

[Herotu]

3 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

Nobody has the video skills of Michael Bay, or directorial talent. Bad Boys 2 > Godfather 2!!!!!!!!! 

 

Maybe if we spent time playing the game instead of faking videos, we'd be able to make a real video some day?

Judging by what people say about Transformers, Michael Bay is a Sonic Blaster.

[Omega-202]

3 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

You just defined technicality while claiming it's more than a technicality. That's amazing. lol

 

If we're talking game mechanics then yes it is a huge difference between an AV and EB or even a Boss since there's also a version of Lord Recluse that spawns as a normal boss. I'm not sure where this boss version ever appears in the normal game but I've seen him in the list of Arachnos enemies when editing my AE missions.

 

Now here's the thing, you're aware that no matter what class he spawns as that it's still Lord Recluse right? The character itself is classified as an Arch-Villain by the game's lore. So while mechanically he might only be an EB story wise he's still considered an AV.

 

Same thing with Sally, that's why she's included on the Giant Monster wiki despite not literally being a Giant Monster mechanically. Hence it's a technicality.

Cool.  Now address the 4 videos of people soloing the ITF that were posted.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Omega-202

[Moka]

I'm not sure what's being argued in this thread anymore. I guess I'll start a new argument by saying all the blaster secondaries are pretty alright. Ninja could use some work.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Moka

[Moka]

6 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

I'm willing to watch you get your beat down by Rom to the point where you have to use the Hospital. If you can't beat him before then it's not happening at all.

I hope you can hold your word to that. Sounds like a good challenge lol. Hell I'd do it on my tanker for you. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Moka

[MunkiLord]

32 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

More nonsense

I summed up your replies so the post isn't very long. You've demonstrated time and time again you have no idea what you're talking about, this is irrefutable. I won't reply directly to you again on this topic unless you bring something of substance to the discussion, which you have yet to do, so I don't think you can. Until such a point, taking to you is beneath me. So I will let you have the last word, you're welcome. 

[jshmoe1236123]

6 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

 

 But you're doing this solo, you don't have any of that help, it's just you running into Rom, getting killed, going to the hospital and repeat over and over again.

 

Here's your problem.  Of course anyone would die over and over doing it like this.  It's called a strategy.  Does a superhero that is cunning and rely on stealth just go bum rush an enemy that's twice his size?  Batman isn't going to go up to Superman without kryptonite or his batsuit in the broad daylight in the streets of Metropolis and say, "hey, let's fight."   Tell me how a blaster will die if Rom isn't even hitting him?  Stay at far enough range in flight and take out one Nictus at a time and then take down Rom the same way.  Blaster DPS is high enough to take them all out one by one.  Final Rom is probably the easiest part of the whole thing.  Stay back and spam a few powers.  Done.  How is this impossible? 

 

How are we the stubborn ones if you won't even watch the videos?  We are the open minded ones trying to push what we can do with our toons.  

 

Please, again, dissect any one of those videos and tell us how it can't be done.  

[Omega-202]

4 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

Well the challenge was for a Blaster since that was the main point of this thread and we're in the Blaster forum.

 

The challenge would be totally different for a Tanker because you're built for Defense and Damage resistance but not so great at DPS. You might actually be able to survive where as I don't see a Blaster lasting very long. But the thing is since I don't see you being able to do the damage to overcome his regen it's not going to be a matter of can you survive Rom but just can you even damage him.

A full vid of both a blaster and tank were posted in this thread on the previous page.  Go watch them.

 

You cannot seriously tell us with a straight face that there's a conspiracy going on where 4 different people (two of which are blasters) have faked solo ITF videos.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Omega-202

[Omega-202]

32 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

Why does it matter if it's permanent? 

 

Rom's regen will put him back at full HP again before you can return to combat. So even if you get back to try again it's going to be the exact same thing all over again. The only possible way you could return to battle before he gets his health back is a self rez power and even then I don't see you lasting too much longer before you're back on the ground waiting for your rez to recharge.

 

If you were on a team with other people supporting you they could keep attacking Rom while you're dead keeping him from being able to regen. They could teleport and rez you so you could return to battle faster. But you're doing this solo, you don't have any of that help, it's just you running into Rom, getting killed, going to the hospital and repeat over and over again.

 

I'm not interested in watching someone who's too stubborn to admit you need help to beat the TF. You ever heard that doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Well I'm literally insane and even I'm not crazy enough to attempt that. If you can't beat him the first time then you won't beat him any other time either, it's simple as that.

 

I'm willing to watch you get your beat down by Rom to the point where you have to use the Hospital. If you can't beat him before then it's not happening at all.

You also do realize the Nictus Essences don't respawn right?  So if you take out two, die, and come back, you still made progress.  Ignoring the fact that self rezzes are totally a thing, including Return to Battle which everyone should have in their hotbar.  

 

You keep showing how little you know about this game every time you post.  How do you keep digging a hole every time you open your mouth?

[MunkiLord]

25 minutes ago, jshmoe1236123 said:

Batman is better than Superman

I know you had actual points and stuff, but this is the big takeaway. 

[Haijinx]

11 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

I would recommend closing this thread.  It's completely devolved from its initial discussion and just become a dozen people telling one person they are wrong about every facet of the game.  Rial can't be helped and its just wasting everyone's time.

Rial had a point in that Blasters are fairly fragile.

 

But of course this can be worked around (on SOs) / largely compensated for (on IOs)  

 

A well played/ well built Blaster is an amazing force of destruction, that gets a lot from their many very good secondaries. 

 

But it is a much steeper learning curve than a Brute or Scrapper. 

[Omega-202]

9 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

1. TFs can not be soloed.

 

2. Videos can be faked.

 

You need to not only prove that 1 is wrong but also that 2 is wrong. The fact that you keep using 2 to prove 1 after I've already proved how easy it is to fake a video shows your stubbornness. Your videos don't prove anything other than you know how to use /Demorecord try something else.

OK, threads over.  He's either trolling or mentally ill.  I guess the Earth is also flat, we never went to the moon and JFK is hanging out with Elvis and the lizard people in the Area 51 pizzaria basement.

[MunkiLord]

3 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

OK, threads over.  He's either trolling or mentally ill.  I guess the Earth is also flat, we never went to the moon and JFK is hanging out with Elvis and the lizard people in the Area 51 pizzaria basement.

Logic and facts are his Kryptonite. 

[Rikmach]

14 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

1. TFs can not be soloed.

What makes you say that?  Why are you so certain of that?  Have you ever tried it?  Heck, I'm sure there might even be people willing to let you tag along and watch while they solo a task force. (Well, technically, it'd be duoing, but if you don't do anything, it's mechanically the same thing)   You're stating this as a fact, without anything to back you up.

 

17 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

2. Videos can be faked.

Well, yeah, they can, but do you have any evidence that the videos presented *were*?   On top of that, /Demorecord has multiple flaws-  one important one is that it can't follow past loading screens (So if a character loads a mission or changes maps, it stops), Glowies often don't spawn, Kheldians often end up stuck in shapeshifted forms, defeated enemies will sometimes stand up- so if you look at the videos, you can tell pretty reliably if it's a /Demorecord or not.

[jshmoe1236123]

36 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

"Tell me how a blaster will die if Rom isn't even hitting him?  Stay at far enough range in flight and take out one Nictus at a time and then take down Rom the same way."

 

If you're in attack range then you're still going to get hit. Staying far away might work for Rom but the Nictus can attack from a distance. Plus you are aware we're in a thread about Blaster Secondaries right? Wasn't the original point that brought this on the idea that you could do this while in Melee?

 

How are you going to take out the Nictus one at a time without anyone helping to separate the one you're attacking from the other Nictus and Rom? It's not going to be one at a time if you're solo, it's going to be all five of them at once because without a team it's not possible to single out just one from the group. Even with a team that's incredibly difficult to do and it requires a tank and possibly some control who can keep their attention while the rest of the team attack the one who's been singled out. You going to be in 2 places at once to accomplish this? I don't see any way you can do this solo when a team can barely do it.

 

"Blaster DPS is high enough to take them all out one by one."

 

How are you going to do that though? You can't separate them if you're solo. You might be able to take them out one by one but you need a team to do that. 

 

"Final Rom is probably the easiest part of the whole thing."

 

That we can agree on. He's only a challenge while he has those Nictus supporting him. But again, you can't separate them solo unless you can some how be in multiple places at the same time. If they're all together, they support each other, they kill you, you might do some damage but you won't be able to kill anything before you die. You won't even make it to just Rom because you won't even beat the Nictus.

 

"How is this impossible?"

 

I've told you multiple times already. It was designed to be a challenge FOR TEAMS! If you can solo it then how is it a challenge for a team? It can't be both soloable and a challenge for a team. If you can solo it on a Blaster than it wouldn't be a challenge for a team. It would be super easy barely an inconvenience. If it's a challenge for a team to do then it must logically be impossible to solo. How is that so difficult to comprehend?

 

"How are we the stubborn ones if you won't even watch the videos?"

 

That works both ways you know. You never addressed the video I posted showing how easy it is to edit a demorecord. How do you expect me to trust a video when I know you can fake it. But I guess you think I actually played a shark Mastermind even though I fully admitted that I faked that video.

 

I know two things that are relevant to this conversation right now.

 

1. TFs can not be soloed.

 

2. Videos can be faked.

 

You need to not only prove that 1 is wrong but also that 2 is wrong. The fact that you keep using 2 to prove 1 after I've already proved how easy it is to fake a video shows your stubbornness. Your videos don't prove anything other than you know how to use /Demorecord try something else.

 

What do I need to address about your video?  Yes I do agree that people can fake things.  I won't deny that.  But I don't really care, tbh.  I don't even need a video of showing proof that someone did it for that matter for the following reasons:

 

1. I've solo'd the thing on a Scrapper (I know you don't believe it)

 

2. I've known people personally that have done it and I trust their word.  Some of them are close to me and are long, long time RL friends of mine.

 

3.   Just in theory alone, it's possible.  Looking at the mechanics and how approach each battle.  The math adds up.

 

And you keep bringing up designed.  The game was DESIGNED around SOs.  The game was DESIGNED for one hero for every three baddies.  Playing on +4/8 is DESIGNED to be difficult for a full team.  It wasn't DESIGNED for IOs, set IOs, and Incarnates.  And ,yet, we can break what is designed with our Incarnate IO'd toons and solo +4/8 content all day long(or do you not believe that, either?), even though we were never DESIGNED to.  The ITF is DESIGNED around SOs.  The ITF wasn't designed to be finished in 15 mins, but it easily can be on full teams.  It's as easy as piss.  We are now all Ferraris racing in a race full of Geo Metros.  Just because it wasn't designed to do something, doesn't mean it's not possible.  So you can take your designed argument and cram it.

Edited October 30, 2019 by jshmoe1236123