Advice on new effective controllery build

[Coyote]

21 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Mass Confuse should be on a much shorter cooldown considering the set gives up a pet to obtain it.

 

I'm not really sure I agree with this. With all of the set bonuses that you can stack onto a character nowadays, you can make a really strong character, with good Recharge and great Defense, who solos at, say, +2/x4-6... a lot of Controller pets, depending on the secondary, may not be very relevant in this scenario. I can tell you that my Ill/Storm's Phantasm makes a career out of faceplanting. Pets are REALLY great at lower difficulty levels, where their statistics are more balanced, but as the character's personal defenses improve so that the character can fight tougher (and more) opponents, and hit them, and do reasonable damage with proc-based builds... pets don't improve at the same rate. They go from a great power in the set to anywhere from "good but not great" to "meh". That basically puts them about on a par with Mass Confusion, which is definitely not great, but it's probably better than "meh". I think it's a good power, which is where most Tier 9 pets are now.

 

My real problem with Mind Control is the REST of the set. Lacking a good way to set up Containment in every fight is a bigger problem than having MC over a pet. Lacking an Immob or other good way to keep mobs from getting to you other than with shutdown powers like Confuses and Holds, so that you can't leverage a Ranged Defense build as well, is another problem. Consider if instead of Telekinesis, the set had Living Shadows, an AoE Immob with a good secondary effect that can be slotted for acceptable damage and set up Containment. And nobody will say that Living Shadows is any kind of great power. But having it would make a bigger change in Mind Control. Or changing it to a Stun with standard stats. Basically, give the set:

1) a way to set up Containment regularly (and not for one attack, like Mass Hypnosis)

2) an AoE damage power, even low damage like an AoE Immob. 65 damage with 8 second recharge is only a bit worse than 130 with 16, and 130 damage with a 16 second recharge is about where Fireball would be on a Controller's damage scale with some procs.

3) some kind of useful debuff effect on the powers. Other sets get -Recharge, -Defense, -ToHit... Mind Control has to shut down the mobs, and since the Devs didn't like City of Statues (reasonably so), it's pretty hard to completely shut down +2/x4 spawns. For example, why doesn't Terrify have some kind of debuff in it? -Damage, -ToHit, and -Recharge would all seem useful. Mass Hypnosis could use a -Damage for a while so that you could use it as an opener to set up one shot with Containment, and then still get some defensive boost from it.

 

I agree that Mind Control is lacking on Controllers, but IMO it's not the pets. It's the lack of anything other than strong shutdown control, which is better leveraged by Dominators. No debuffing, very little Containment, very little AoE damage... these are problems that could be addressed to more effectively fix the set's performance.

[Sarkastik Observer]

6 hours ago, Coyote said:

Consider if instead of Telekinesis, the set had Living Shadows, an AoE Immob with a good secondary effect that can be slotted for acceptable damage and set up Containment. And nobody will say that Living Shadows is any kind of great power. But having it would make a bigger change in Mind Control. Or changing it to a Stun with standard stats. Basically, give the set:

1) a way to set up Containment regularly (and not for one attack, like Mass Hypnosis)

2) an AoE damage power, even low damage like an AoE Immob. 65 damage with 8 second recharge is only a bit worse than 130 with 16, and 130 damage with a 16 second recharge is about where Fireball would be on a Controller's damage scale with some procs.

3) some kind of useful debuff effect on the powers. Other sets get -Recharge, -Defense, -ToHit... Mind Control has to shut down the mobs, and since the Devs didn't like City of Statues (reasonably so), it's pretty hard to completely shut down +2/x4 spawns. For example, why doesn't Terrify have some kind of debuff in it? -Damage, -ToHit, and -Recharge would all seem useful. Mass Hypnosis could use a -Damage for a while so that you could use it as an opener to set up one shot with Containment, and then still get some defensive boost from it.

 

I agree that Mind Control is lacking on Controllers, but IMO it's not the pets. It's the lack of anything other than strong shutdown control, which is better leveraged by Dominators. No debuffing, very little Containment, very little AoE damage... these are problems that could be addressed to more effectively fix the set's performance.

I suggested somewhere to change TK to a immob, but, i like the idea of it being a stun as well. Maybe change it to a version of mass levitate(see psionic melee (targetedaoe instead of pbaoe)), scaled to controller dmg of course, with smashing dmg/stun? (100% stun since it sets up containment instead of a regular immob.. shit even levitate should stun if this is implemented). Maybe 6/7s levitate stun 12/14s on TK? Telekinesis seems like it should be idk powerful instead of lackluster/useless i guess?

 

All the additional effects are on other control sets. Ice having -recharge and -slow, dark having -tohit, earth having -def(and a sleep w/ -def), fire having disorient, immobs, -spd, and, -tohit with all that dmg and knockdown is crazy. Plant being more about dmg but having 2 pets and cone confuse(fast rech here) and aoe sleep, electric with the -end, gravity w/ impact(idk if that works with containment), and illusion with its army of pets(lulz).

 

When and if wind control is released it has almost all of the additional effects on its controls.

 

I think -dmg on mass hypnosis would be a nice niche for mind control, or, even -res. Also throwing in -recharge would be something other psionic sets seem to have.. except mind control. 

 

Honestly if the below occurred I would be happy..

 

1) Levitate gets a 6.5 sec stun added.

2) Telekinesis gets changed to a targeted aoe mass levitate with smashing dmg and a 13 sec stun

3) Mass Hypnosis and Total Domination gets a -res effect added making one viable and just makes sense.

4) Terrify gets the -dmg (or -res) effect added because that seems to make more sense for the purpose of the power.

5) Dominate, and, Mesmerize get the -res which further helps with the "no pet" policy of Mind Control.

6) Leave the confuse powers alone unless some controller wide change is made.

 

**Still no immob, but a viable way to set up containment, and, some additional bonus debuffs, like other sets, bringing Mind Control up to par with the other sets even without a pet(I like not having a pet) while still filling a neat niche of its own that no other control set offers(i may have missed -res, -dmg) yet and not changing it much, but, actually improving it.**

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

Edit: I asked the same thing about terrify.. someone said the dmg was the additional effect.. idk

Edited November 1, 2019 by Sarkastik Observer

[oedipus_tex]

For Mind Control I would start by lowering the recharge time on Mass Confusion from 240 seconds to around 120 - 180 seconds. Longer than Seeds of Confusion or Synaptic Overload but shorter than currrent.

 

The second thing I'd do is fix Total Domination, but that isn't a Mind Control specific thing, its all-control-sets-thing that should have happened when Blaster nukes were lowered in recharge time and made crashless. There are a couple of suggestions floating around about how to do that.

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Gulbasaur]

14 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

For Mind Control I would start by lowering the recharge time on Mass Confusion from 240 seconds to around 120 - 180 seconds. Longer than Seeds of Confusion or Synaptic Overload but shorter than currrent.

 

The second thing I'd do is fix Total Domination, but that isn't a Mind Control specific thing, its all-control-sets-thing that should have happened when Blaster nukes were lowered in recharge time and made crashless

I play fortunata, which has the same powers on the same cooldowns and I'm not sure I'd reduce them at all... I've got MC up every other spawn and TD would be about the same if I slotted it- I use it as a "oh dear, the brute's about to faceplant" power with a couple of damage procs. Unless I'm solo, I find it quite hard to justify using it. If anything, I'd increase the duration or something like that... 10 seconds is enough to get maybe 4 attacks in under usual circumstances... or maybe add a slow effect to it to follow on so they come out of it groggy or something.

 

I agree it's a bit of an underwhelming power for anything other than a 1-2-3 with the mass hypnosis and terrify. Mind control peaks early and then sort of plateaus.

 

I'd just be happy if Containment included fear as a status effect that triggers it.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Gulbasaur

[oedipus_tex]

10 minutes ago, Gulbasaur said:

I play fortunata, which has the same powers on the same cooldowns and I'm not sure I'd reduce them at all... I've got MC up every other spawn and TD would be about the same if I slotted it- I use it as a "oh dear, the brute's about to faceplant" power with a couple of damage procs. Unless I'm solo, I find it quite hard to justify using it. If anything, I'd increase the duration or something like that... 10 seconds is enough to get maybe 4 attacks in under usual circumstances... or maybe add a slow effect to it to follow on so they come out of it groggy or something.

 

I agree it's a bit of an underwhelming power for anything other than a 1-2-3 with the mass hypnosis and terrify. Mind control peaks early and then sort of plateaus.

 

I'd just be happy if Containment included fear as a status effect that triggers it.

 

I wouldn't change the powers on Fortunata.

[Gulbasaur]

25 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

I wouldn't change the powers on Fortunata.

No, I'm just saying they're the same. I also have a mind/storm controller and had one on Live, but the fortunata is the one I play the most. Both times, I sort of hit a wall with my mind controller - they sort of hit a wall.

[bartwart]

Mind doesn't need a AOE immob .  Terrorize is much better than AOE immob.  It's essentially like an AOE immob stacked with a minus recharge effect.  It's almost as good as an AOE hold, but arguably better since it has a much faster recharge rate.  You could easily have a Mind powerhouse that skips the Total Domination and Mass Sleep powers altogether.

Edited November 12, 2019 by bartwart

[Crowcus Pocus]

I've been playing an Earth/TA. Used to love it back on live and I must say that playing this combo on HC is... well, awesome.

 

Not only it is the control monster it used to be back on live, but the procs make it a whole different beast (both control and damage wise).

 

Oddly enough, whenever I play this toon I seem to get teamed with other TAs every time - which makes it even more fun.

[roleki]

17 hours ago, Falsey said:

I've been playing an Earth/TA. Used to love it back on live and I must say that playing this combo on HC is... well, awesome.

 

Not only it is the control monster it used to be back on live, but the procs make it a whole different beast (both control and damage wise).

 

Oddly enough, whenever I play this toon I seem to get teamed with other TAs every time - which makes it even more fun.

I'm pretty sure that Earth/TA is actually a "yo dawg, I heard you like controllers" meme.  

[Carnifax]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:26 PM, bartwart said:

Mind doesn't need a AOE immob .  Terrorize is much better than AOE immob.  It's essentially like an AOE immob stacked with a minus recharge effect.  It's almost as good as an AOE hold, but arguably better since it has a much faster recharge rate.  You could easily have a Mind powerhouse that skips the Total Domination and Mass Sleep powers altogether.

No containment though 😢

 

If I was allowed make one change to the entire game it would be "Give Terrorized Fear" (standy-trembling fear) trigger containment. I mean Sleep sets it up and Fear is like Sleep but puts them back into the non-react state after one attack. 

 

(If I had a second change it would be to add at least 50% of the containment damage back to the Epics).

 

I'll totally admit my own bias in that I run an Illusionist as my main. But it's not like I'd be doing amazing damage. 

[Sarkastik Observer]

Just un-nerf trollers lolol

 

Edit: Also add every mez effect to containment.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Sarkastik Observer

[Demon Shell]

5 hours ago, Carnifax said:

No containment though 😢

 

If I was allowed make one change to the entire game it would be "Give Terrorized Fear" (standy-trembling fear) trigger containment. I mean Sleep sets it up and Fear is like Sleep but puts them back into the non-react state after one attack.

This is easily the biggest issue with Mind. My Electric/Force/Earth does donuts around what my Mind/Sonic/Leviathan can put out, despite the resist debuffs/epic pet/Water Spout, and is safer while doing it.

 

Both fun to play, but because fights drag on so long for the Mind due to non-containment, everything and more can go wrong.

 

It really sucks, because aside from no Containment Terrify is amazing. Strong enough to carry the set through its weakness to ambushes.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Demon Shell
Clarification

[Stromaeyl]

I'm a little late to this party but, if I may, I would strongly suggest the 'classic' splatroller build: Plant/Radiation.

 

It is in force before level 10 with the most damaging aoe immobilize in the any Controller power set--Roots (your level 2 power choice).  Rad already gives a PBAOE team heal (radiant aura) right from the start.  Once you get Seeds of Confusion (level 😎   8 your basic rotation is set--aoe confuse>aoe immob. and repeat the roots tossing in the occasional Strangler (level 1 hold) or aoe confuse.  Endurance will be a bit of a problem.

 

It appears you love the Dark powers and Radiation as a secondary should give you the warm fuzzies-- infection-- a negative to hit and negative defence on that boss mob, lingering radiation an aoe to generally debuff (-res -rec slow) mobs, etc., enervating field, another aoe debuff (-dam -res) plus the always useful Accelerated Metabolism, a team PBAOE that buffs damage, recovery, recharge and provides status protection.  All of the above by level 12 !!

 

Yes there is a pet and yes carrion creepers is nasty but they come on much later.  Your team mates won't care about the pets as you help flatten GMs and AVs with your debuffs and buffs.

 

You will control and you will be the asset every team wants.  Give it a go.

[Sarkastik Observer]

Nerfed trollers cuz they didn't want the end game content to be trivial for them then perma-dom builds exist.. Makes no sense. 

 

Un-nerf trollers lol

Edited November 15, 2019 by Sarkastik Observer