New Archetype: Melee Supporter, Paladin

[Croax]

Hi all,

I bet it was allready suggested, so i will make it short. I really would like to play a melee oriented support AT. Like a melee Version of Defenders and Corruptors. The Primarie would be a Support set and the secondary a melee attack set like scrappers. To make it really melee oriented it could get a  innate that scales of enemys around you. That way the Paladin would like to fight side by side with the other melee archetypes.

 

Thx for reading!

[Haijinx]

Instead of a new AT, why not proliferate some DOM assault sets to Cors, Defs, and Sents

[krj12]

 

 

I would definitely love to have this implemented, though I wish they could implement something new vs rehashing existing powers.  For example, in most rpgs,  I associate  auras

around a Paladin which are visible on the ground.

 

[biostem]

Look up the "Guardian" AT - it's something they're working on over at Rebirth - it's assault primaries and a combination of support & armor as their secondaries.  It could be very interesting to play, but tough to balance - just how much survivability would you give them?  What kind of HP/defense/damage numbers were you thinking?

[Croax]

I had not specific numbers in my mind when i came up with this. 

I was thinking creating a new archetype out of existing powersets would be a lot easier for the HC team than creating a new powerset with all new animations and effects and powers. 

 

the aura aproach is allready "somehow" in the game if you look at the VEAT and their leadership toggles. I was just thining that somewhat more variety could be great.

 

Ofc. i was thinking about defender level damage and damage caps, 75% resi cap, maybe even no status protection in the early levels? it should be a squishy (defender lvl) with bad damage, BUT a support toon that shines in teams. I don't want another power creep. i just want to be able to use all the cool melee attacks and still throw out some heal/buff/debuff. The existing powersets are all fine.

 

We could have:

 

Defender - Support/Damage (ranged)

Paladin - Support/Damage (melee)

Corruptor - Damage (ranged)/Support

Mastermind - Pets/Support

Controller - Control/Support

 

I would use the Defender Values for the support set and tanker values for the damage set. No taunt, maybe we get placate without the hide or another theme oriented debuff or buff. Like "rally your allys" a power like parry but as a teamwide buff. it could give everyone around you some short timed buff to something, could be resi, defense, damage, to hit. Not everything ofc just one buff.

 

I think the innate could be something that forces you to go into melee or to look actively at your allies and seek their presence. a stacking buff that can help you somehow?

 

In World of Warcraft - Legion they made the Paladin healer dish out better healing the closer you are to the wounded ally. usually this beeing the tank it was a really cool concept. Especially while giving this caster a big ass two handed hammer as a weapon. I liked the fact that you were a melee healer. I am aware of the spaghetti code of CoX, so it would probably better to make it a copy of the stalker crit innate and make the buff apply to something else and not criticals.

 

A patchworked AT from existing powers, innates and values. Maybe it is not that much of work, maybe it is a crazy big project taking over a year. i have no idea.

 

I am not that creative to make better suggestions, but maybe someone of you has a better understanding in what direction this AT could be going?

[krj12]

I wonder if an easier solution would be to add some more primary power sets to the tanker AT that are more support oriented?  
Maybe they could be a mix of defensive powers like the tanker already has plus some auras that help the team.

 

[Lost Ninja]

I'd like the AT but not the name.

 

A Paladin is a religious Warrior in most games where I have come across it. We don't really need that association in this game. Guardian (as mentioned above) would fit the abilities just as well and doesn't - at least to me - have the same connotations.

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, krj12 said:

I wonder if an easier solution would be to add some more primary power sets to the tanker AT that are more support oriented?  
Maybe they could be a mix of defensive powers like the tanker already has plus some auras that help the team.

 

I prefer the powerset to new AT idea too. 

[MetaVileTerror]

"Paladin" is also very heavily linked to the fantasy genre.  City of Heroes has made a trend of using more (post-)modern terminology for its various Archetypes.

[EmmySky]

Powerset porting seems like I good idea...I could totally dig an empathy/MA!

[MetaVileTerror]

I want Martial Arts / Kinetics.  Both Sets exactly as-is; no need to make it Martial Assault and a hybrid Support/Armour Set, frankly.

[Croax]

I am not married to that Name, you can call it whatever you want. I have encountered several names in many games: Guardian, Adept, The Initiate, Street Shaman, Esper, Spiritualist, The Equinox, Monk, Crusader. I really don't care.

 

It's just the melee playstyle and the ability to support, with existing powersets. I would love that.

[MetaVileTerror]

I think we need to figure out the Inherent though, to really sell it.
Maybe something like "every time you use an Attack Power, you gain a small stacking bonus to your outgoing Healing, Buffs, and Debuffs up to 5 stacks.  Any time you use a Support Power you gain a small stacking bonus to To-Hit, Recharge, and Endurance for your Attack Powers."

[Croax]

3 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

I think we need to figure out the Inherent though, to really sell it.
Maybe something like "every time you use an Attack Power, you gain a small stacking bonus to your outgoing Healing, Buffs, and Debuffs up to 5 stacks.  Any time you use a Support Power you gain a small stacking bonus to To-Hit, Recharge, and Endurance for your Attack Powers."

I like that sort of idea. you would want to use attack and buff powers. but does it need to have stacks and then 5 of it? but i like the direction this is going.

[biostem]

Without some armor toggles or controls, this AT would suffer greatly while in melee, survival-wise.

 

You could do something like this, (I'm just using a mix of empathy and invulnerability as an example, here):

 

1. Healing Aura

2. Temp Invulnerability

3. Unyielding

4. Resurrect

5. Clear Mind

6. Fortitude

7. Recovery Aura

8. Regeneration Aura

9. Adrenalin Boost

 

You'd likely need to swap in more Invulnerability powers or adjust the specific numbers/durations/etc  until you find a good balance, but it's doable.  For instance, maybe you could turn clear mind and fortitude into toggles that benefit the user and their allies in a small radius, instead of including armor powers at all.  Sets like radiation could be turned into user-centered AoEs that debuff nearby enemies, thus increasing that character's survivability that way.

 

As for a class ability - what about some sort of "tagging" system, where enemies suffer a debuff, and you gain a buff for every such tagged enemy within 15' or so...

 

 

 

[Croax]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

You'd likely need to swap in more Invulnerability powers or adjust the specific numbers/durations/etc  until you find a good balance, but it's doable.  For instance, maybe you could turn clear mind and fortitude into toggles that benefit the user and their allies in a small radius, instead of including armor powers at all.  Sets like radiation could be turned into user-centered AoEs that debuff nearby enemies, thus increasing that character's survivability that way.

Sounds like a power creep for me 🤣

 

BUt is a "tagging" system even possible in CoX?

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Croax said:

Sounds like a power creep for me 🤣

 

BUt is a "tagging" system even possible in CoX?

Well, the actual values of those buffs/debuffs turned into toggles would probably be lower, and there'd be a constant endurance cost to contend with.  As for the "tagging system", you could just have it where you apply a debuff to enemies, and perhaps have a buff applied to yourself which stacks, based upon the number of enemies hit when said debuff was applied...

[Lost Ninja]

7 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

I think we need to figure out the Inherent though, to really sell it.
Maybe something like "every time you use an Attack Power, you gain a small stacking bonus to your outgoing Healing, Buffs, and Debuffs up to 5 stacks.  Any time you use a Support Power you gain a small stacking bonus to To-Hit, Recharge, and Endurance for your Attack Powers."

With the current UI I find these types of powers/inherents really annoying. Yet it seems to be the go to for interesting things to do with them.

 

I don't really have an alternative but if they were to add this I'd hope that the could add an UI element separate from the Menu/XP Bar to show buff stacks. And/Or make the ring system (as seen in Water et al) work with the expanded tool bars.