Human only vs Tri-form?

[Tonio]

I'm playing my first Peacebringer, and reading on the forums, I'm slightly overwhelmed with the whole Tr-form concept, particularly the binding, tray switching, etc.  I'm also somewhat of a newb (played a lot back in live, but never "hard core", been playing a couple of months in HC now), so while I understand most of the concepts, I'm nowhere near an expert (e.g. I understand perfectly how IO sets work, but I still wouldn't know where to start designing a build to make good use of them).

 

So I'm wondering whether playing a human-only PB will be worth it, or whether I should bite the bullet and start fiddling around with keybinds and stuff for a Tri-form (is there such a thing as two-form?).  I'm sure human-only builds can work, at least from what I gather reading the forums, but I don't know whether they'd require more know-how and experience than what I currently have.

[Microcosm]

Welcome to khelddom, Tonio. There is such a thing as taking one extra form; we call it bi-form. Unless you're power leveling to 50, taking the forms is going to help your leveling quite a bit, as you get a full AoE rotation at 6 with Nova and a survival shell at 20 with Dwarf, but it isn't required to function. If you don't take the forms you will probably notice your AoE is lacking until you get to 50 and build out an IO build (even then I couldnt stand not having Nova). You don't have to do the binds if you want to click the powers instead, as shifting to a form adds a temporary power tray (which can also be turned off if you don't like it). Binds are there to make life easier; if they cause you consternation, skip em.

 

If you've already read through the guides, best bet is probably to skim Redlynne's leveling topic (if the wall of text doesn't crit you), and when you get ready to really invest in Uber builds check out Doom's builds also posted in here. You can get ideas from those and ask follow ups here or post tentative builds for people to help you with.

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Microcosm

[Doomrider]

Tri-form is going be easier to level and will pick up earlier than human form only. Getting Nova form at Level 6 is fantastic as you get 2 additional ST blasts and 2 aoes, also Glinting Eye works in Nova form as well giving you a full ST attack chain at level 6, which is crazy.
While key binds will definitely make life easier, they're easier to implement than they may seem. Some of the guides you may come across may come with a lot of bloat and walls of texts but the essential binds can be broken down very easily. Keybinds are personal for sure, so everyone will have a different take on theirs, I could share mine with you if you'd like to give it a whirl.

If you need build insight I've got a thread in this sub-forum with a variety of different kheld builds including a budget tri-form peacebringer build if you need something to reference.

That thread can be found here: 

As for endgame, I still play Tri-form over human personally. Both Nova and Dwarf come with a lot of utility that i'd rather have than not and once you get the hang of shifting on the fly, it's a lot of fun and nice a change of pace from conventional AT builds.

[Doomrider]

1 minute ago, Microcosm said:

Welcome to khelddom, Tonio. There is such a thing as taking one extra form; we call it bi-form. Unless you're power leveling to 50, taking the forms is going to help your leveling quite a bit, as you get a full AoE rotation at 6 with Nova and a survival she'll at 20 with Dwarf, but it isn't required to function. If you don't take the forms you will probably notice your AoE is lacking until you get to 50 and build out an IO build (even then I couldnt stand not having Nova). You don't have to do the binds if you want to click the powers instead, as shifting to a form adds a temporary power tray (which can also be turned off if you don't like it). Binds are there to make life easier; if they cause you consternation, skip em.

 

If you've already read through the guides, best bet is probably to skim Redlynn's leveling topic (if the wall of text doesn't crit you), and when you get ready to really invest in Uber builds check out Doom's builds also posted in here. You can get ideas from those and ask follow ups here or post tentative builds for people to help you with.

 

Did we just post at the exact same time? I think you may have beat me to the punch haha.

[Tonio]

34 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

You don't have to do the binds if you want to click the powers instead, as shifting to a form adds a temporary power tray (which can also be turned off if you don't like it). Binds are there to make life easier; if they cause you consternation, skip em.

 

Oh, I couldn't play just clicking powers... I only click stuff like toggles, revives, inspirations (mostly cuz i'm too lazy to organize them and use the keybinds), oro portal... basically stuff I use infrequently, one-off stuff, etc.  I did see Redlynne's "fallthrough" bind config, so I guess I'll give that a try, thanks. 😃

 

35 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

If you've already read through the guides, best bet is probably to skim Redlynne's leveling topic (if the wall of text doesn't crit you), and when you get ready to really invest in Uber builds check out Doom's builds also posted in here. You can get ideas from those and ask follow ups here or post tentative builds for people to help you with.

 

I've seen both of those (Redlynne's leveling and Doom's builds), great info on there, definitely.  I'll give tri-form a try (hah, sorry); I'd decided against following Redlynne's leveling guide because it was tri-form, but you've both convinced me to try it out, thanks!

[Redlynne]

7 hours ago, Tonio said:

I did see Redlynne's "fallthrough" bind config, so I guess I'll give that a try, thanks. 😃

And that only happened because I couldn't get bindloadfiles to load other bindloadfiles so as to be able to switcheroo what my keybinds "did" when changing forms.  The only way I had left to make things work without needing to so something really stupid was to right the "fallthrough" system I ultimately came up with.  If you have questions on how stuff works in it (so you can customize to your own preferences, I can be found floating around the forums (in different forms, of course).

7 hours ago, Tonio said:

I've seen both of those (Redlynne's leveling and Doom's builds), great info on there, definitely.  I'll give tri-form a try (hah, sorry); I'd decided against following Redlynne's leveling guide because it was tri-form, but you've both convinced me to try it out, thanks!

The simple fact of the matter is that a Human only is really best done as an endgame respec option on an alternate build.  The reason why I say that is because you'll need all your slots in order to invest in a Human only build in order to make it REALLY work to your best advantage.  While you're leveling, no matter what you do your build is going to feel "incomplete" as you're working your way up to 50.  The main reason I like being able to level up with Tri-Forms is because it gives you "phases" of the game for you to grow into (and through) ... such as 1-5, 6-25, 27-42 and 43-50 ... in which you're building out the various forms so as to give yourself a wider array of OPTIONS for how to deal with the various challenges you need to overcome, with everything coming together with the "keystone" settling into place at Level 50.  The benefit of all that is that it makes for a very Exemplar friendly kind of build and playstyle that is flexible enough to take on very nearly anything and everything, at any Level, either solo or in groups.  It also helps you build the necessary foundations of understanding exactly HOW to play the various forms in different roles (controlling, blasting, tanking) so as to know how to best adapt to evolving capabilities and the different demands you'll be called upon to fulfill in groups, and having that broader base of understanding will serve you well if you're an altaholic (like most of us).

[codezephyr]

To echo what several have said - leveling up the various forms make everything easier. Learning to pop in and out of forms provides a great deal of flexibility. My first solo-EB kill was around 30ish - before LightForm and I went in expecting to have to quit the mission. But flipping between all three forms (damage from nova, heals from human, ride out the recharge in Dwarf) allowed me to win, slowly, but still a proud moment!

 

I used a lot of information from this forum to help build out a character with perma-hasten and perma-lightform that has been a lot of fun to play. That guide used the Nova and Dwarf slots with Crushing Impact and Entropic Chaos to get the recharge bonuses. 

 

Now at 50+3 I still use Dwarf to ride out any downtime in Light Form due to debuffing, or to break a random hold that lands. However transforming from Dwarf->Human->Lightform in the heat of a fight requires planning! I'll occasionally use Nova in teams if I want to 'sit back' and stay out of the crowd and give the melee members some more space. 

 

I've been looking at dropping the Nova form entirely, since I prefer to stay in human (light) form, but I find myself using dwarf still (maybe as a crutch). However I haven't landed on the right build just yet to keep me in either my bi-form or human-only builds yet.

[Tonio]

I've read the "dwarf to break holds" thing... how does that work? I don't see a "break mez" power in my dwarf form.  Does switching to it automatically break holds?  (I think I did see dwarf form has some innate mez resistance... is that what's going on? Switching to it raises your threshold, so holds are automatically broken when switching to it, if they're below your new threshold?)

[codezephyr]

Dwarf has built in status protection that is automatic. Since you shape-shift while held, you can use it as a free, instant break free. 

 

I forget the magnitude of the resistance, but I think the only one to hold me in dwarf was Ghost Widow. And in defense of the Dwarf - the tanker was floating around in the air doing circles too :).

[Redlynne]

11 hours ago, Tonio said:

I've read the "dwarf to break holds" thing... how does that work? I don't see a "break mez" power in my dwarf form.  Does switching to it automatically break holds?  (I think I did see dwarf form has some innate mez resistance... is that what's going on? Switching to it raises your threshold, so holds are automatically broken when switching to it, if they're below your new threshold?)

You've got it.  Dwarf form has built in mez protection, and you can toggle Dwarf form on while mezzed.  Dwarf form doesn't "remove" the mez, per se, so you'll need to ride out the remaining duration in Dwarf form ... meaning if you revert back to Human form too fast you'll just resume being mezzed ... but Dwarf form is your anti-mez form since it gets Melee Monster(ish) levels of protection from mez effects while you're in Dwarf form.

[Troyusrex]

I’m strongly thinking of changing my tri-form PB to a human only PB as I find I almost never go into either of the other forms. That said, I’m a level 50 plus 50+ veteran levels and fully purpled out.

 

My recommendation would be to bite the bullet and go tri-form. Besides the easier leveling and the like, the tray switching does add a new component to CoH that I haven’t gotten with and other toon. It can be real fun to switch around and master the trays. You feel like a real expert player for getting it all down. It just takes more skill and finesse with the trays  than many of the other archetypes and there’s a pride that goes along with that. I think it’s at least worth a try to see if that play style suits you. You may find it’s not for you, but likely you’ll find it an interesting new experience. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Troyusrex

[SeraphimKensai]

Warshade I play triform perma eclipse. Peacebringer I play human form (technically biform, but dwarf to me is just a breakfree) that is perma lightform.

 

Both work exceedingly well.

[Redlynne]

2 hours ago, Troyusrex said:

I’m strongly thinking of changing my tri-form PB to a human only PB as I find I almost never go into either of the other forms.

Just use an Alternate Build.  You can ask any Trainer to help you switch to an Alternate Build.  That way you can "keep" your Tri-Form and enjoy building out a Human only build on the same character and swap them as appropriate (at the Trainer).

[Troyusrex]

On 12/26/2019 at 9:42 PM, Redlynne said:

Just use an Alternate Build.  You can ask any Trainer to help you switch to an Alternate Build.  That way you can "keep" your Tri-Form and enjoy building out a Human only build on the same character and swap them as appropriate (at the Trainer).

Great idea! Thanks. I'll do that. 

[Microcosm]

You can actually swap those builds on the fly without going to a trainer, by the way.  The command is  /selectbuild n, where n is the number of the build. Picked that up from some guide somewhere.