Defender Primary Selection - Some Help

[purplereign]

Hey, everyone - 

 

Coming back to homecoming after a few months break and looking to go hard into a Defender. I've done my fair share of research, pine-building, testing, etc. and I'm yet still struggling to determine which primary I want to play for a Defender. My current options are:

 

Emp/Sonic

Thermal/Sonic

Kin/Sonic

-and maybe- Cold/Sonic

 

/Sonic is the clear winner when it comes to Defender secondaries, purely for -res stacking.

 

My goal is to be the ultimate, super-duper team support as I never, ever play this game by myself. I'd log off before I ever solo run missions (unless it's to prove that something does/doesn't work).

 

Now each of these builds is good, so I can't really go wrong, which is great. I know people might say "play them all" but unfortunately, due to time constraints, it's easier for me to focus on one out the gate. 

 

How do I see each primary?

 

Emp -- severely misunderstood. Anyone that's played the game at a high level knows that "healing" isn't really a thing, except when people do silly stuff, or are not geared enough to take on the content. Heals are really a fail-safe, not a playstyle. However, PB + Fort, RA, Regen and even CM are incredibly potent tools for any team. I do think they're probably middle-of-the-pack as far as overall sets go, but I think it's combination with /Sonic makes it a solid boost to any team's consistency. More regen, more end, more damage = better group experience.

 

Thermal -- really feels, to me, like the jack-of-all-trades for a Defender primary. Buffs to softcap the team, heals as your fail-safe, a better rez than Emp. Plus it has the 1-2 punch of Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor, which can do wonders to any boss/AV and help your team cut through them like butter. I don't know how Forge stacks up to Fort, but I assume much weaker. Does this set particularly excel at anything special? 

 

Kin -- Ooo baby... the "go fast" primary. I feel like this set offers little-to-nothing in the defense department, but makes up for it in its ability to augment the offense of your team by a SUBSTANTIAL margin. So ST buffs to maintain (unless you want to ST cast ID for the mez protection) and probably the largest contributor to the user actually adding more damage. A Kin/Sonic will probably contribute more DPS than either of the above builds.

 

This is just my look at the sets.

 

Those who are far more experienced than me.... any recommendations? Any watchouts or thoughts? Any builds would be lovely to look at, too.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Cheers

[Psylenz0511]

You have quite selection. Of the three: empathy, thermal, or kinetic. I would go thermal. The shields along with thermal heals and the debuffs including -regen make this a potent power set. If you felt more open to cold, I would choose that over thermal, the big difference being sleet. Sleet/Freezing Rain is a monster ability.

 

Adrenaline Boost is a pretty big deal for Empathy. In the upper levels you can really make a difference in boss fights. 

 

Kinetics has an often overlooked damage mitigator besides the transfusion heals. Siphon power and fulcrum shift reduce the potential damage of incoming attacks. Transfusion is +heal -dmg and -regen although the -regen is admittedly small. Siphon speed is a good debuff, too. Siphon speed's -speed is an irresistible debuff. Think about that when you are chasing Diabolique all over that outdoor map.

[purplereign]

4 hours ago, Psylenz0511 said:

You have quite selection. Of the three: empathy, thermal, or kinetic. I would go thermal. The shields along with thermal heals and the debuffs including -regen make this a potent power set. If you felt more open to cold, I would choose that over thermal, the big difference being sleet. Sleet/Freezing Rain is a monster ability.

 

Adrenaline Boost is a pretty big deal for Empathy. In the upper levels you can really make a difference in boss fights. 

 

Kinetics has an often overlooked damage mitigator besides the transfusion heals. Siphon power and fulcrum shift reduce the potential damage of incoming attacks. Transfusion is +heal -dmg and -regen although the -regen is admittedly small. Siphon speed is a good debuff, too. Siphon speed's -speed is an irresistible debuff. Think about that when you are chasing Diabolique all over that outdoor map.

Thank you for the response, Psylenz! I actually decided to give Thermal/Sonic a go before reading this and feel better about my choice having read this. Now I just need to find someone to help me figure out how to build this character out.

[Doomguide2005]

What server?  There's an all Defender and Corrupter SG Psylenz has started up on Everlasting.  SG is called Everlasting Defenders with a channel called Buffed Up

Edited December 29, 2019 by Doomguide2005
Silly poster didn't mention a couple details

[Linea]

If I had to pick one defender for you to bring to all my teams, I'd pick Nature.  Chances are really good someone else will bring a kin, and/or most of the other buffable things, but nature is pretty unique and buffs those things I can make use of most and tends to be the hardest to find.

 

If you want to specialize in killing AV/GMs, then I'd pick Cold (assuming I didn't pick Illusion/Rad).  But really, any reasonable team these days should be able to kill all the AVs or GMs it wants.  Cold even on pure SO builds guts hard targets.

 

No one defender does everything.  But some really nice pairs are Kin/Cold, Time/Nature, Emp/Emp, ... any of these would be great picks ... but honestly just about any defender would be a great pick.

Also, you do not HAVE to box yourself into /Sonic Blast.  Yes, it's a nice additional multiplier, but at least half of the other blast sets would be just as good a choice.  I personally recommend Fire, Ice, and Water as the top three overall choices and much less frustrating to play if you ever do wind up on a small team or solo.

- Kin/Cold pair translates to max +dam * max -resist = 9x damage.

- Time/Nature buffs defense, damage, resist, absorb, recharge, and healing.

- Emp/Emp is just silly fun when run Green Machine style, perma buffs for all.

... etc. ...

Nature Fire - Fourcade 2 - [i25].mxd Nature Fire - Fourcade 2td - [i25].mxd Nature Fire - Laoraine 2c - [i25].mxd

[oedipus_tex]

Sonic is good at debuffing, but so are Dual Pistols and Beam Rifle when loaded up properly. Water and Dark are also solid choices. On a Defender, the Dark nuke with Power Boost beats almost any -ToHit power in the game.

 

I have literally never seen a Thermal Defender in all the years I've played. The reason is probably that so little about Thermal benefits the caster directly. Just the PBAoE heal and the enemy affecting powers. There's no reason a Thermal Defender wouldn't be effective, I've just never seen one. Most of the Thermals seem to be Controllers or Masterminds, I suppose so they can heal their pets.

 

You didn't list Nature but it deserves some recognition. Like Linea mentioned, its the least likely set to overlap with another player. Nature benefits from most of its powers so can be run solo or teamed. 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Darkir]

On 12/26/2019 at 4:14 PM, purplereign said:

Hey, everyone - 

 

Coming back to homecoming after a few months break and looking to go hard into a Defender. I've done my fair share of research, pine-building, testing, etc. and I'm yet still struggling to determine which primary I want to play for a Defender. My current options are:

 

Emp/Sonic

Thermal/Sonic

Kin/Sonic

-and maybe- Cold/Sonic

 

/Sonic is the clear winner when it comes to Defender secondaries, purely for -res stacking.

 

My goal is to be the ultimate, super-duper team support as I never, ever play this game by myself. I'd log off before I ever solo run missions (unless it's to prove that something does/doesn't work).

 

Now each of these builds is good, so I can't really go wrong, which is great. I know people might say "play them all" but unfortunately, due to time constraints, it's easier for me to focus on one out the gate. 

 

How do I see each primary?

 

Emp -- severely misunderstood. Anyone that's played the game at a high level knows that "healing" isn't really a thing, except when people do silly stuff, or are not geared enough to take on the content. Heals are really a fail-safe, not a playstyle. However, PB + Fort, RA, Regen and even CM are incredibly potent tools for any team. I do think they're probably middle-of-the-pack as far as overall sets go, but I think it's combination with /Sonic makes it a solid boost to any team's consistency. More regen, more end, more damage = better group experience.

 

Thermal -- really feels, to me, like the jack-of-all-trades for a Defender primary. Buffs to softcap the team, heals as your fail-safe, a better rez than Emp. Plus it has the 1-2 punch of Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor, which can do wonders to any boss/AV and help your team cut through them like butter. I don't know how Forge stacks up to Fort, but I assume much weaker. Does this set particularly excel at anything special? 

 

Kin -- Ooo baby... the "go fast" primary. I feel like this set offers little-to-nothing in the defense department, but makes up for it in its ability to augment the offense of your team by a SUBSTANTIAL margin. So ST buffs to maintain (unless you want to ST cast ID for the mez protection) and probably the largest contributor to the user actually adding more damage. A Kin/Sonic will probably contribute more DPS than either of the above builds.

 

This is just my look at the sets.

 

Those who are far more experienced than me.... any recommendations? Any watchouts or thoughts? Any builds would be lovely to look at, too.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Cheers

If you want the most noticeable change in team speed go kin/sonic. If you are worried about the prevalence of kins while teaming, go cold/sonic for all the -res (the one problem with this combo is the lack of a self heal, but if you are always teaming it shouldn't be much of a problem, just not the self-sufficient scrapper style of play I like). However, I see from another thread that you already chose thermal/sonic, so I will post a build for you there. I still think kin/sonic is a better choice for your specific goals though.

[Frosticus]

I feel defense buffs are aplenty amd many people build for high personal defense. So that somewhat devalues things like cold shields.

However adding thermal res shields to that mix makes everyone super sturdy. 

 

plus thermal is very rare. 

 

kin is great and all but it is like a light switch if the caster lags on speed boost applications. Which can get a bit tedious for the kin ime. 

[ambpup]

Back on Live, I only remember a few kin defenders to the hundreds of kin controllers. As to thermal, I only remember a few when the power was new and shiny (but then alot of people already had their 50th lvl defender with FF). My 3rd character on Homecoming is a Time/Sonic defender, and I'm pretty impress with her survivability and I haven't even maxed out my recharge yet.

[purplereign]

On 12/30/2019 at 7:58 AM, Linea said:

If I had to pick one defender for you to bring to all my teams, I'd pick Nature.  Chances are really good someone else will bring a kin, and/or most of the other buffable things, but nature is pretty unique and buffs those things I can make use of most and tends to be the hardest to find.

 

If you want to specialize in killing AV/GMs, then I'd pick Cold (assuming I didn't pick Illusion/Rad).  But really, any reasonable team these days should be able to kill all the AVs or GMs it wants.  Cold even on pure SO builds guts hard targets.

 

No one defender does everything.  But some really nice pairs are Kin/Cold, Time/Nature, Emp/Emp, ... any of these would be great picks ... but honestly just about any defender would be a great pick.

Also, you do not HAVE to box yourself into /Sonic Blast.  Yes, it's a nice additional multiplier, but at least half of the other blast sets would be just as good a choice.  I personally recommend Fire, Ice, and Water as the top three overall choices and much less frustrating to play if you ever do wind up on a small team or solo.

- Kin/Cold pair translates to max +dam * max -resist = 9x damage.

- Time/Nature buffs defense, damage, resist, absorb, recharge, and healing.

- Emp/Emp is just silly fun when run Green Machine style, perma buffs for all.

... etc. ...

Nature Fire - Fourcade 2 - [i25].mxd 5.3 kB · 1 download Nature Fire - Fourcade 2td - [i25].mxd 5.35 kB · 0 downloads Nature Fire - Laoraine 2c - [i25].mxd 5.22 kB · 1 download

Thank you for this write-up. 

 

To elaborate a little, if you'll indulge me...

 

The Nature recommendation is an interesting one, for sure. I can see the potential, as I currently have an Earth/Nature Troller. Despite being a ways off from full IO sets, it still packs quite a punch in the support department. 

 

Is there a tremendous difference to running Nature as a primary versus a secondary? Do Defender numbers push the powerset into overdrive in some way? It's certainly a well-rounded set, and if you can fashion a build that manages to achieve perma-OG I think it really contributes to a team in a way that your'e alluding to. 

 

If I did decide to pursue Nature a bit more, can you give a bit more context into your opinion on Fire? While Fire probably does the most DPS, it offers little-to-no secondary benefits, right? I never, ever solo in the game and don't really need to be hitting hard, which is why I defaulted to Sonic as the most "team-friendly" secondary.

 

Lastly, I notice you linked three difference builds, though I'm not entirely sure when/where you use each one. 

 

I think if I had to pick based on what you recommend, I'd probably push for Ice, as I happen to love that powerset. Water seems a bit iffy though I've never personally tried it.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this up and share your builds. I'm a huge fan of your Time/DP builds (though a bit too OFFender for my taste) and think you're an incredible and valuable asset to the community.

 

Much love.

 

 

[Linea]

The primary builds are resist based damage builds, the secondary build is a more traditional defense armored build with less damage.

Any blast set is acceptable, I'm just most fond of Fire (Damage), Ice (Damage/Utility, Holds), Water (Utility, Self-Heal).

Same way I rate Armors, EnA (Defense), RadA (Resist), Bio (Heal-Tank) ...

I'm picking one of each type to recommend, not shuffling all types together and picking the top 3 ... that could lead to either very bias results, or the need for just listing every set possible.  For instance, I tend to never recommend resist based armor on 75% resist cap ATs because you are always going to be stuck with taking 2.5x incoming damage even with the best build.  The only exceptions to that would be Dark, Bio, Nature, or any other set that can provide 2.5x or more Healing and/or Regen.  But then that in turn probably means it's a Heal-Tank instead of primarily defense or resist set, or it's a hybrid.  Messy and complicated,  So I give one for each type so at least one will most likely fit the play-style desired.

I built Offenders, from a support perspective it's a bit more ambivalent, although the defender does get better support numbers.

The primary builds push near-perma Overgrowth and near-perma soul-drain for blaster level damage plus support.  A blaster that's buffing damage (half a kin's worth), resistance, regen, recovery, absorb, that massive AoE heal/absorb, and some minor healing (although the directional 'heal' is a total PITA without binds.)

Directional Heal - Bind numpad to "team_select 1$$face$$follow" .. then heal.   I'll attach my binds if you can decipher them.  (good luck.  I have hundreds of bind files, so binds are second nature to me, and as a result my binds may appear a bit complicated at first.)

 

On 1/2/2020 at 2:14 AM, purplereign said:

though a bit too OFFender for my taste

You should see my Empath.  Totally Blasphemous Sacriledge, It's primary build isn't even Green Machine compliant. *face palm*  ... of course it's also an unholy terror. 😜

fourcade.zip