Medium-Range Teleport

[aethereal]

I would like to see an additional bonus power added to either teleport or long range teleport.

 

This power would, when clicked, bring up a pop-up menu of potential teleport targets in the current zone, and allow you to teleport to them after a short or no wind-up.

 

In a standard world zone, those targets could be either the centers of each neighborhood, or else the zone features (tram, ae, arena, etc).

 

In a PvP zone, there could be no features, to prevent the power from being used as an unfair escape mechanism.

 

On most instance/mission maps, there could be no features, or else the zone exit could be a feature (which would trivialize a small number of missions in which there is a challenge in getting yourself, only, to the exit).

 

The goal here would be to allow players who invest in the teleport pool to really feel like they have a unique ability to skip through space and quickly get around in a way that other players don't.

[Galaxy Brain]

I dig it

[Outrider_01]

4 hours ago, aethereal said:

The goal here would be to allow players who invest in the teleport pool to really feel like they have a unique ability to skip through space and quickly get around in a way that other players don't.

Teleport is unique.  Its instant movement to another point bypassing terrain (except it can't go through objects), every other one is linear.  Flight is on every axis but slow.  SS is 99% horizontal, 1% going up odd protrusions. SJ is making an upward/downward curve like Lombard street except its up/down.  You basically want short cut, easy mode, cross zone with no effort and this is fair to balance/equal to every other travel power?

[aethereal]

27 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

Teleport is unique.  Its instant movement to another point bypassing terrain (except it can't go through objects), every other one is linear.  Flight is on every axis but slow.  SS is 99% horizontal, 1% going up odd protrusions. SJ is making an upward/downward curve like Lombard street except its up/down.  You basically want short cut, easy mode, cross zone with no effort and this is fair to balance/equal to every other travel power?

Teleport doesn't really bypass terrain.  Actually, in a lot of circumstances, it has a harder time with terrain than either Super Jump or Flight, because it can be hard to make tight turns.

 

Teleport also really struggles with big zones, at least at low-mid levels, because you run out of endurance in a way that you don't with the other three travel powers.  There's nothing to make you feel superheroic like taking a break somewhere to catch your breath before resuming your hopping across the level.

 

Teleport is the fastest travel power on a featureless plane or space, but its speed is often compromised by take-off/landing problems, due to the clumsiness of its terrain situation, especially in crowded landing zones, where you may have to make several extra hops to actually get to the door.

 

And of course Teleport requires a ton of active clicking and management by the player.

 

That's a big list of disadvantages.  It doesn't have a ton of advantages to make up for that. 

 

But let's say that we think that making teleport mildly more powerful will omg-imbalance the game (hah!).  Surely we can all agree that Long Range Teleport is just awful?  Right now, it's completely obviated by enterbasefrompasscode (and yes, I know, that's supposed to go away at some point, but they sure aren't rushing taking it away), which offers no wind-up, no cool-down, and a much more comprehensive list of zone destinations, and, oh yeah, no power slot.  Two load screens instead of one, but the load screen to get into a small base is usually less than the wind-up on LRT.  And also by the way it's also obviated about 50% of the time by Ouroborus.

 

And even if LRT weren't strictly worse than a slash command that every player has access to at level 1, it was never a great power.  Getting to a tram/ferry was often just as fast or only marginally slower than the wind-up on LRT, and ultimately, end of the day, even when it did save you some time, all it saves is a small amount of time.  Your character is no better at fighting, no better at escaping, no better at tactical movement.  At least Afterburner gives you a slot for LotG and gets you to the trainer faster.

 

My medium-range teleport idea wouldn't mean you could ignore moving through the zone.  It wouldn't take you straight to a mission door.  But it would let teleporters have something that they can do that other travel powers can't, that would save them a mild amount of time and give them some cool factor when everyone else is slogging from one end of IP to another.

 

PS:  Teleport also lacks a first-tier power that many or most builds want to take somewhere, like Combat Jumping, Hover, or Hasten.

Edited January 15, 2020 by aethereal

[Outrider_01]

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Teleport doesn't really bypass terrain.

Define bypass.  Up, up, and away so it is over terrain. I did say it couldn't go through. Turns, sure but I would assume the player could make a good gut estimate and land close.  Also, going up and down like the hypotenuse  then teleport down (I hate math, longest line of a triangle that is 45 degree up and then teleport down to cut that over shoot)

 

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Teleport also really struggles with big zones, at least at low-mid levels, because you run out of endurance in a way that you don't with the other three travel powers. 

Never said the actual power couldn't use a buff to endurance reduction or another smaller increase in distance. Just the instant teleport idea.  And the annoying things you list, agree but it comes with the power and why people don't really take it.

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Right now, it's completely obviated by enterbasefrompasscode (and yes, I know, that's supposed to go away at some point, but they sure aren't rushing taking it away

As you said, it's a bug/non-feature.  Makes a bad excuse to support your suggestion. (Not to seem like an insult, I just do that that a lot and its just me 😞)

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Getting to a tram/ferry was often just as fast or only marginally slower than the wind-up on LRT,

All powers suffer travel times to trams/ferry.  Just different speeds.

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Afterburner gives you a slot for LotG and gets you to the trainer faster.

Sorcery pool would be better option for travel, hover/flight with a mini tank ability (I think, only glanced at it) Teleport pool has access to various abilities, think of it like a swiss army knife or tool kit.  Just have to think different. 

 

LOTG is outside an argument, you are talking about travel powers I would assume by "bypassing" an area of the zone.  SS has end reduc and speed, SJ has end reduc and jump, Flight has end reduc and speed, TP has range and endurance reduc.  

 

Secondary powers like CJ and Hover can slot +7.5 Recharge which is a bonus. Hasten is +50? Recharge at minimum 2 slot excluding massive IO builds, which trump for a single IO on recharge speed.  Could teleport get some kind of IO bonus? Sure, probably easier to change Jaunt bonuses.

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Your character is no better at fighting, no better at escaping, no better at tactical movement. 

Nit picking because it does give a tactical bonus, which I agree teleport lacks except for boulder Granite tanks.

 

Tiny defense bonus is minuscule except for a IO defense build.  Same for Hover same but gives range bonus as well for those big hitters.  SS gets stealth at cost of an IO or stealth power.

 

TP...nothing except bypassing groups in a mission.  Lacking as you said.

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

cool factor when everyone else is slogging from one end of IP to another

Thats basically my argument.  Every power power must slog distances; at different speeds.  No one travel power set of the actual travel power has a "cool factor".  Can teleport get something like defense bonus to fit an something like an IO, yeah but I don't know how.

 

On the other hand, as I said above...Teleport set is utility. It can Group port which no other set can do itself...cool factor sorta.

 

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Teleport also lacks a first-tier power that many or most builds want to take somewhere, like Combat Jumping, Hover, or Hasten

Your comparing the utility of powers, not travel itself.  All travel powers are available at 4?  All are the same if considering point A to point b.  Some travel powers have a more valuable and desirable secondary. 

 

But! If TP is at 4, leaves choice for something else, as long as you don't factor in an IO build.

 

I get what your saying, but you keep bring up stuff for IO builds vs your initial suggestion for travel.

[Zepp]

14 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Teleport is unique.  Its instant movement to another point bypassing terrain (except it can't go through objects), every other one is linear.  Flight is on every axis but slow.  SS is 99% horizontal, 1% going up odd protrusions. SJ is making an upward/downward curve like Lombard street except its up/down.  You basically want short cut, easy mode, cross zone with no effort and this is fair to balance/equal to every other travel power?

It can go through (some) windows... You can also TP through narrow openings that you can't pass through (so long as you can see where you are TPing to).

Edited January 16, 2020 by Zepp

[SeraphimKensai]

I'd be happy with a proc TP IO to boost the magnitude of someone's TP power for tp foe/wormhole. It would be nice to snag a boss/eb or such with a wormhole or player running 2 proc IO's giving teleport protection.

[Replacement]

18 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

You basically want short cut, easy mode, cross zone with no effort and this is fair to balance/equal to every other travel power?

This still wouldn't make LRTP worth the number of powers spent.

 

So... Yes.

 

Also, as we've discussed before on topics like this, I would be all for only allowing neighborhood porting once you have 1-2 exploration badges for the zone (not all of them).

[SeraphimKensai]

Long range teleport probably needs a reworking anyways, maybe a 1 min cool down team transport eque power.

[Outrider_01]

37 minutes ago, Replacement said:

This still wouldn't make LRTP worth the number of powers spent.

 

So... Yes.

 

Also, as we've discussed before on topics like this, I would be all for only allowing neighborhood porting once you have 1-2 exploration badges for the zone (not all of them).

And again.

 

The point...you would now travel faster and farther then the other travel powers.  Just. The. Travel. Powers.  Teleport is still faster except SS maybe horizontally, why should other travel powers now suffer more? The other powers are now slower than before.  They already lag behind, basically would lag even more.

 

Does teleport suck with the clicky ports? Down side of porting.

 

Instant all axis fast speed? Sounds better then slower flight and super speed is stuck to horizontal. Jump is slower than others.

 

Can teleport itself be buffed? Why not.  Six slot the bastard, but give it amazing IO bonuses.  Even 3 would be fine, the universal boosts all travel equally but TP suffers from more active clicking. Not fair against toggles.

 

No one said you have to take that power.  Sorcery is same as teleport itself for travel. The entire TP pool is a pocket knife of utility, the other travel pools don't benefit groups or against enemy.  Maybe GFlight but that is situational.  And any other boost power is a joke, it should never of been implemented and TP buffet instead.

 

Example...neighborhood porting in Fault Line....and beside flight SS sucks more and SJ might land in a canyon.  The suggestion...easy bypass.  And skyway.

[Replacement]

16 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

And again.

 

The point...you would now travel faster and farther then the other travel powers.  Just. The. Travel. Powers.  Teleport is still faster except SS maybe horizontally, why should other travel powers now suffer more? The other powers are now slower than before.  They already lag behind, basically would lag even more.

 

Does teleport suck with the clicky ports? Down side of porting.

 

Instant all axis fast speed? Sounds better then slower flight and super speed is stuck to horizontal. Jump is slower than others.

 

Can teleport itself be buffed? Why not.  Six slot the bastard, but give it amazing IO bonuses.  Even 3 would be fine, the universal boosts all travel equally but TP suffers from more active clicking. Not fair against toggles.

 

No one said you have to take that power.  Sorcery is same as teleport itself for travel. The entire TP pool is a pocket knife of utility, the other travel pools don't benefit groups or against enemy.  Maybe GFlight but that is situational.  And any other boost power is a joke, it should never of been implemented and TP buffet instead.

 

Example...neighborhood porting in Fault Line....and beside flight SS sucks more and SJ might land in a canyon.  The suggestion...easy bypass.  And skyway.

There's some logic in here I don't agree with.

 

For starters, long range requires 3 powers. You are desperately avoiding this. 

 

Next: buffing it doesn't weaken the other Travels. Don't get me wrong, I understand the idea of abilities being powercrept "over.". But this simply isn't that. Mystic Flight is an example of potentially powercreeping over Flight and Teleportation*, but it takes a lot of superjump buffs to, for example, impinge on Flight.

 

Short version: buffing a wasted pick isn't unfair to the powers who've had the spotlight for 15 years.

 

Finally, pointing out that I don't have to take the power is... What do you really think that proves? This feels to me the same as when one person points out something broken in their government and instead of wanting to fix it, the opposition says "if you don't like it, just leave." It's a fallacy at best.

 

To be clear, though, I will continue to shout from the rooftops that I think the entire TP pool needs redone, and any full rework would logically address my concerns of mostly-wasted power picks.

 

*I actually agree about slotting TP. I wish it had its own good, dedicated IOs to make this a worthwhile cost to my character. But ideally, this is how it should set itself above Translocation.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Replacement

[aethereal]

Enterbasefrompasscode is at this point clearly not being treated as a straight forward bug.  They've had many opportunities to lock it back down, and have chosen not to take them.

 

They will probably change it eventually to something a little less wide open, but right now the sense appears to be: the status quo is imperfect, but preferable to just removing enterbasefrompasscode.

[Outrider_01]

2 hours ago, Replacement said:

To be clear, though, I will continue to shout from the rooftops that I think the entire TP pool needs redone, and any full rework would logically address my concerns of mostly-wasted power picks.

I just can't stand teleport personally, only 1 character on live for theme.  After seeing extra powers in all the pools I was taking a look at everything a while back, so I was glossing over it.

 

I assumed it was some boost power, was at work.  Took a look just now at Long Range. 

 

It sucks.  End of Discussion on that.  5 min recharge and massive wind up animation, you are better off running sprint.

 

Does it work off the map?  Or just forward until you hit the other side of the zone?

 

Better replacing Long Range with passive buff that affects teleport, reduce endurance and increases range like you are getting free enhancements.  That would be worth 3 power picks.  Even hover in the in Flight put into Teleport would be better.

 

Sorcery needs to be hit with the Statesman's Fist of Nerfbalacing,  its just too good with an Absord / Range Attack / Flight / Teleport / PBAoE damage aura ? / Mini-god mode like a melee; which is shorter recharge timer but decent enough resist with just a shorter duration time but that status protection is too much.

 

Only reason I am against the suggestion, is you can pick where you want to go with how you describe it.  No other power has anything like that and would just go round robin with another improve this travel pool, but We got off tangent when you started saying things like 7.5% IO Recharge and I countered with secondary picks as to why.  

 

Its just better to buff teleport period, the cost is too high and the range is too short...its basically a snipe power in similar end cost with twice the range or change long range to a passive "Quantum Understanding Something Something Lame Name" power and move it down a tier.  No other power pool would have something like that and it would have "that cool" factor you stated, SJ has a silly forward jump attack while flight is just another toggle, and 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Outrider_01

[aethereal]

Long Range Teleport, after its wind-up, presents you with a popup menu list of zones.  When you pick one, you are transported to a particular (invariant) point in one of those zones (the list of zones is limited, I think basically no hazard zones).  It's essentially a tram as a power.  It'd have been very cool in the game at like the midpoint of its evolution, when the tram lines weren't unified, there was no Ouroborus, and there was just a lot less QOL in general.  As it was on HC before enterbasefrompasscode, it was clearly not worth a power pick unless you were like, "Uh, well, I have literally nothing else than I want," but it provided you with some amount of moderately cool utility.  But enterbasefrompasscode does everything that LRT does, and more, for free, at level 1.

Edited January 16, 2020 by aethereal
Left out Ouroborus, the original LRT for everyone.

[Replacement]

21 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Long Range Teleport, after its wind-up, presents you with a popup menu list of zones.  When you pick one, you are transported to a particular (invariant) point in one of those zones (the list of zones is limited, I think basically no hazard zones).  It's essentially a tram as a power.  It'd have been very cool in the game at like the midpoint of its evolution, when the tram lines weren't unified, there was no Ouroborus, and there was just a lot less QOL in general.  As it was on HC before enterbasefrompasscode, it was clearly not worth a power pick unless you were like, "Uh, well, I have literally nothing else than I want," but it provided you with some amount of moderately cool utility.  But enterbasefrompasscode does everything that LRT does, and more, for free, at level 1.

While true, my understanding is enterbasefrompasscode won't last forever.  It's "here" enough that we shouldn't expect the rug pulled on us... but not enough to start doing power design around.

[aethereal]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

While true, my understanding is enterbasefrompasscode won't last forever.  It's "here" enough that we shouldn't expect the rug pulled on us... but not enough to start doing power design around.

As I said a bit up, it's not being treated as a simple bug.  It appears, reading the tea leaves that HC staff would prefer some undefined lesser version of enterbasefrompasscode to the current enterbasefrompasscode, but they prefer current enterbasefrompasscode to no enterbasefrompasscode.  And they don't seem to have a great sense of urgency that the lesser version must be pinned down.

 

LRT was the definition of a marginal power before enterbasefrompasscode.  With enterbasefrompasscode as it currently exists, it's simply useless.  With some future lesser version of enterbasefrompasscode, it's going to be an even more marginal power.  I submit that my "medium range teleport" option as a bonus on top of LRT would not have been overpowered even completely without enterbasefrompasscode, and in the current status quo it's probably not enough to rescue LRT from being a wasted power pick.  In a future world somewhere between "no enterbasefrompasscode" and the current status quo, medium range teleport on top of LRT would be obviously not unbalanced.

[Outrider_01]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

LRT was the definition of a marginal power

I agree now, its beyond situational and useful with those stats.  I I was just rolling around in my head Boost Range from the Blaster /Energy Manipulation secondary which only affects range for attacks, pretty sure LRT could be converted to something similar that only affects TP and would have maybe a 2 minute duration; long enough to teleport across IP.  Not counting enterbase command.