Make the origin power pools a separate pick (like Patron/Ancillary)

[Blackfeather]

13 hours ago, Pbuckley818 said:

I am mostly against this as I feel it would essentially let people pick a travel Power Pool without actually having to sacrifice anything. Mighty Leap, and Sorcerous Flight will both become EVEN more ubiquitous as travel powers, while people will be able to freely grab whatever they like for everything else. No hard decisions having to have been made. Just yet more power creep. Personally, I don't like this. But I suppose it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

That's quite fair a statement. The way I see it, people who want to pick Fly/Super Jump/Super Speed are already able to freely grab them without too hard a decision - in those cases, they'll likely pick up another useful power in Hover/Combat Jumping/Hasten. However, if one wants to do the same with say, Sorcery's Mystic Flight, they'll need to pick another pool to get a power other than a travel one, compared to the previous three.

 

While I understand that the fun in limitations comes from working alongside them, it seems a bit unfair to arbitrarily put that limit on one person's character just because they decided that they'd like to have a character with a different travel power - I don't see how a person who wants Mighty Leap instead of Super Jump should need to make a hard decision about it is all, especially when another character who wants to use Super Jump doesn't have to do that if they want access to, say, Combat Jumping.

 

Power creep is also one of the reasons why I prefer having an Origin power pool group, rather than just increasing the number of accessible power pools to 5 like a few posts have mentioned - I figured that it'd minimise the amount power creep, for maximal theme/fun. Plus, the fact that they're already mutually exclusive sounds like it'd make them a good fit for grouping up.

 

Naturally, I'm of the view that the suggestion I've posted likely won't have too much of an effect in terms of how characters might be built, outside of those who want a more thematic travel power, since that's the viewpoint that I'm approaching this topic on. But I'd definitely look forward to different viewpoints on the matter!

[Pbuckley818]

2 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

That's quite fair a statement. The way I see it, people who want to pick Fly/Super Jump/Super Speed are already able to freely grab them without too hard a decision - in those cases, they'll likely pick up another useful power in Hover/Combat Jumping/Hasten. However, if one wants to do the same with say, Sorcery's Mystic Flight, they'll need to pick another pool to get a power other than a travel one, compared to the previous three.

 

While I understand that the fun in limitations comes from working alongside them, it seems a bit unfair to arbitrarily put that limit on one person's character just because they decided that they'd like to have a character with a different travel power - I don't see how a person who wants Mighty Leap instead of Super Jump should need to make a hard decision about it is all, especially when another character who wants to use Super Jump doesn't have to do that if they want access to, say, Combat Jumping.

 

Power creep is also one of the reasons why I prefer having an Origin power pool group, rather than just increasing the number of accessible power pools to 5 like a few posts have mentioned - I figured that it'd minimise the amount power creep, for maximal theme/fun. Plus, the fact that they're already mutually exclusive sounds like it'd make them a good fit for grouping up.

 

Naturally, I'm of the view that the suggestion I've posted likely won't have too much of an effect in terms of how characters might be built, outside of those who want a more thematic travel power, since that's the viewpoint that I'm approaching this topic on. But I'd definitely look forward to different viewpoints on the matter!

I suppose you have a point. It would also be nice to see the Origin Pools get a slight buff, which they might be able toget if they where made their own thing. 

[siolfir]

1 hour ago, Blackfeather said:

Power creep is also one of the reasons why I prefer having an Origin power pool group, rather than just increasing the number of accessible power pools to 5 like a few posts have mentioned - I figured that it'd minimise the amount power creep, for maximal theme/fun. Plus, the fact that they're already mutually exclusive sounds like it'd make them a good fit for grouping up.

I considered the power creep in my reply but also dismissed it as marginal. I'm not worried that someone would be able to take Hasten, Combat Jumping, Maneuvers, Tactics, Boxing, Tough, Weave, Mystic Flight, Arcane Bolt, and Rune of Protection as 10 of their 21 power picks that they can choose after the pools open at level 4; as I said, that means they're taking less powers from their primary and secondary - powers that should be either stronger in effect or more efficient. There is already an opportunity cost associated with dipping into that many pools.

Edited February 4, 2020 by siolfir
swapping powers in Sorcery... forum respecs go much faster!

[Blackfeather]

Mm, that's fair - there certainly is some opportunity cost involved with dipping into multiple different pools, yes. I imagine the main draw of the Origin power pools to be their theme; those who do decide to slot in attacks/support abilities from them still need to give up on another, potentially more potent power for them.

[golstat2003]

I'm fine with folks being able to pick 5 pools. Might be some power creep, but as has been stated, you are giving up being able to pick other powers.

[Blackfeather]

On 2/26/2020 at 7:18 AM, golstat2003 said:

I'm fine with folks being able to pick 5 pools. Might be some power creep, but as has been stated, you are giving up being able to pick other powers.

Hmm. Personally I'm not entirely comfortable with outright increasing the amount of power pools - the main aim here was to allow for a thematic travel power if wished for without 'giving up' on other pools (compare say a Superman-like character who'd prefer the Fly power pool, who can gain the Hover power without taking up another pool, compared to a Doctor Strange-like character who might want Mystic Flight, who can't do the same).

 

Essentially, I was aiming for an increase in thematic enjoyment without having to make arbitrary sacrifices depending on the theme chosen by a user, with the added concern of avoiding power creep.

[EmmySky]

I don't like the idea because I believe that limited power pools forces a player to focus on strategy and at this point in the game it is one of the last remaining strategies we really can use.  However, I dont really care one way or the other, the game is such a roflstomp most of the time I dont think itd make a lot of difference.

 

I do think it would be cool if the origin based pools were indeed tied to your origin, but also include the ability to change your origin at the p2w via revoke (like you do with throwing knives etc).  This would give slightly more importance to picking an origin in the first place and also allow RPers to have a natural character play out for a while THEN get mutated or scienced into something (because headcannon/personal storylines).  This might require a respec if you already had the origin pool but then switched origin, therefore an inf sink at the time of picking a new origin to purchase a respec which would be entered immediately like when you try to level to 24 on a VEAT.

 

Sorry didnt mean to get so far off track.  Carry on!  😁

[Itikar]

Already now on many builds it is more efficient to take mystic flight instead of regular fly, even if you take hover. Regular fly is basically taken only when you get fly and have maxed your power pool choices. I expect this phenomenon to increase and to extend to more power pools when the new origins pools are released. And I am fine with that, since the limit to 4 pools is what keeps it in check.

 

In light of that I believe this proposal will decrease even further the appeal of traditional travel powers, to the point very few will actually take them. I am against this proposal for  this reason. However I believe the proposal is reasonable and I think in the end the powercreep would not be too much, if it were accepted, due to the limited amount of powers one can take in the end.

 

Still I think it's too early for a proposal like this. First we need the old pool powers to be revised so that there are more than 1 or 2 useful powers per pool, creating viable and reasonable options for all characters.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Itikar

[Lines]

33 minutes ago, Itikar said:

Still I think it's too early for a proposal like this. First we need the old pool powers to be revised so that there are more than 1 or 2 useful powers per pool, creating viable and reasonable options for all characters.

I agree with this. The landscape of pool powers are in for a bit of a shift, I think, so I think we need to see where that ends up.