If it takes generic Taunt enhancements, it should take Taunt sets

[Heraclea]

Noticed something odd.  Brute Integration can be slotted with a Taunt IO or SO.  However, it does not take Taunt sets. 

 

This also seems to be the case with a number of powers, including Invincibility, Rise to the Challenge, and the Bio primary auras.   Invincibility and Rise to the Challenge can be slotted with various procs; the -tohit of RttC means it can take the Dark Watcher's recharge slow, for instance. 

 

Now, the Taunt sets have a number of bonuses like Accuracy that are pretty much useless in normal play (it's autohit) as well as enhancing recharge, range, and various procs.  Those sets would be a lot more useful and worthwhile if they could be slotted in the armors. 

[Sakura Tenshi]

If I recall, the reason was a technical issue on live. I think it was something weird like procs on taunt auras hitting the user instead of the targets.

 

Not 100%on the validity though, no source, and that may have been fixed since and they just haven’t gotten to it.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Might just be a balance choice. Brutes no matter the sets are already among the most reliable ATs to use in solo and team play. They are able to use a set like regen that is denied to tanks for balance reasons historically. I mean HC team already tweaked procs to kill proc monster builds which brutes were a major user of with certain sets plus being able to use the taunt procs as well on a AT that with dury and a team will likely hit its dmg cap even without setting for raw dmg in the attacks.

 

Not saying it really is a balance issue imo mind you. I doubt it would lead to any meaningful power creep but you never can really tell until you can try it in action.

[macskull]

4 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I mean HC team already tweaked procs to kill proc monster builds

lol

[DR_Mechano]

5 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I mean HC team already tweaked procs to kill proc monster builds

No they haven't my Fire/Dark controller is still pretty much a proc monster with certain attacks dishing out way more damage than they have any right to when filled with procs...

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Maybe they havent killed them all or maybe you just have a lower threshold for what I call a proc monster. One of the first differences I noticed on HC compared to live was the proc change and how it impacted my name sake while leveling him. original berk on live while leveling had his world of confusion loaded with dmg procs, these on live would proc so frequently I called my WoC an aura of minion disintegration. It was basically impossible for equal level minions to get into melee range. On HC with the vastly reduced rate of procs ticking, it was an absolute waste of slots and proc IOs to do the same.

 

So like many I now just focus on raw DPS and dmg boosts and tend to only use CC related procs if any at all in attacks more for the novelty then anything else.

[Leogunner]

10 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Maybe they havent killed them all or maybe you just have a lower threshold for what I call a proc monster. One of the first differences I noticed on HC compared to live was the proc change and how it impacted my name sake while leveling him. original berk on live while leveling had his world of confusion loaded with dmg procs, these on live would proc so frequently I called my WoC an aura of minion disintegration. It was basically impossible for equal level minions to get into melee range. On HC with the vastly reduced rate of procs ticking, it was an absolute waste of slots and proc IOs to do the same.

 

So like many I now just focus on raw DPS and dmg boosts and tend to only use CC related procs if any at all in attacks more for the novelty then anything else.

Sounds unbalanced. 

 

Now, you can make a click power that does no damage into an attack that equals or surpasses a tier 3 blast. It also shifts slotting priority away from slotting rech to maximize proc chance, meaning you might create a build with more attacks vs few attacks maximized for an efficient chain. 

 

So outlier uses of procs might not be as useful but there are likely more build opportunities for lower powered ATs. 

[Captain Powerhouse]

42 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

original berk on live while leveling had his world of confusion loaded with dmg procs, these on live would proc so frequently I called my WoC an aura of minion disintegration.

 

That sounds like pre-PPM behavior. PPM greatly reduces proc-rate on low recharge powers and auras. This was done by the live team perhaps one or two issues before shutdown.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Captain Powerhouse

[macskull]

8 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Maybe they havent killed them all or maybe you just have a lower threshold for what I call a proc monster. One of the first differences I noticed on HC compared to live was the proc change and how it impacted my name sake while leveling him. original berk on live while leveling had his world of confusion loaded with dmg procs, these on live would proc so frequently I called my WoC an aura of minion disintegration. It was basically impossible for equal level minions to get into melee range. On HC with the vastly reduced rate of procs ticking, it was an absolute waste of slots and proc IOs to do the same.

 

So like many I now just focus on raw DPS and dmg boosts and tend to only use CC related procs if any at all in attacks more for the novelty then anything else.

Generally speaking, procs in auras aren't as good as they were before but procs pretty much everywhere else are way way way better than they ever were on live. You can do things now with PPM that would make old "proc monster" builds blush.

7 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

That sounds like pre-PPM behavior. PPM greatly reduces proc-rate on low recharge powers and auras. This was done by the live team perhaps one or two issues before shutdown.

"PPM for everything" was an I24 beta change. Only the store-bought enhancements from the Paragon Market used PPM while the game was live.

Edited February 12, 2020 by macskull

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

Generally speaking, procs in auras aren't as good as they were before but procs pretty much everywhere else are way way way better than they ever were on live. You can do things now with PPM that would make old "proc monster" builds blush.

This would be news to me. Could you (or anyone!) elaborate on how to make crazy ppm proc monsters? Is it relying on certain power interactions, like gaussians Tactics in a full party?

 

My understanding was, the peak came with the "buzzsaw" builds, mostly cycling the t1 and t2 attacks and such, because constant % chance to proc for static damage (completely detached from the cooldown of the power that it processed from) is best abused by firing off that power as frequently as possible. It seems to me the whole point of PPM is to be game-proof.

 

Nowadays, I've been operating under the assumption that procs are mostly a mechanism to get around weak AT modifiers or numbers in a power.

 

EDIT: I just read the subject line of this thread again and realized how entirely off topic this is. Sorry for that.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Replacement

[macskull]

12 minutes ago, Replacement said:

This would be news to me. Could you (or anyone!) elaborate on how to make crazy ppm proc monsters? Is it relying on certain power interactions, like gaussians Tactics in a full party?

 

My understanding was, the peak came with the "buzzsaw" builds, mostly cycling the t1 and t2 attacks and such, because constant % chance to proc for static damage (completely detached from the cooldown of the power that it processed from) is best abused by firing off that power as frequently as possible. It seems to me the whole point of PPM is to be game-proof.

 

Nowadays, I've been operating under the assumption that procs are mostly a mechanism to get around weak AT modifiers or numbers in a power.

 

EDIT: I just read the subject line of this thread again and realized how entirely off topic this is. Sorry for that.

I realize this is off-topic but it's at least somewhat relevant so I'll throw some math up.

 

I'll use Mako's Bite slotted in a few different Dark Melee powers as my example, since Dark Melee was a pretty common powerset for "buzzsaw" builds back in the day. Under the old proc system, Mako's Bite had a fixed 20% chance to fire so in my example (Shadow Punch slotted with a full set of Mako's Bite has a recharge time of 1.8s and an activation time of 0.83s for a total cycle time of 2.63s) you would've had a 20% chance every 2.63s for extra damage. With the same slotting and the PPM system you're looking at 15.37% chance every 2.63s so you're losing about 1/4 of your potential extra damage. For purple procs it's more significant (old system 33% chance every 2.63s, PPM system 19.76% chance every 2.63s).

 

Looking at Smite with a full set of Mako's Bite you would have had 20% chance for extra damage every 3.51s. With the PPM system that becomes 26.71%. If you had a purple proc slotted there the old 33% chance becomes 34.34% so it's pretty much a wash there, but as you move up into the higher-recharging powers the balance starts to tip more and more toward the PPM system especially because PPM ignores recharge from sources other than slotting (like set bonuses, self buffs, and ally buffs). It gets to the point where you can basically force a proc to fire in a given power as long as you're building right to the point where it's taking away a lot of the randomness.

 

TL;DR: PPM is a net loss for some tier 1 attacks, likely a gain for tier 2 and higher attacks, and a huge win for anything on a longer timer (for example slotting the Gaussian proc in Aim/BU used to be just a 5% chance but now with typical slotting it's not uncommon for it to be 80-90% chance which is a massive increase in damage). Proc monsters didn't go away, they're just different than they used to be, especially for lower-damage ATs like Controllers.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

22 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

That sounds like pre-PPM behavior. PPM greatly reduces proc-rate on low recharge powers and auras. This was done by the live team perhaps one or two issues before shutdown.

That would likely explain my experience, as I only used WOC for dmg procs while leveling, once capped Id switched to the lvl 50 confusion set which made its confuse strong enough to be more useful then the dmg aspect.

 

Sadly I favored dmg procs on passive abilities like woc then on actual attacks, so I for one am one of those that over all do not really like the change and as others have pointed out in this thread it just created a different kind of proc monster that some claim is even more OP then the old way procs worked.