An option to kill the Malta leaders in Max's arc

[Vanden]

The Malta group is one of the most despicable enemy groups in the game, so being forced to work alongside them in Dark Astoria puts a bad taste in my mouth, to say nothing of actually helping them. You do have the option to skip the missions where you actually help Malta, but you need to complete those missions if you want all the badges, so heroes are being subtly railroaded into helping Malta. What would fix this is giving players the option to kill the three Malta operatives they're supposed to rescue. The missions would play out largely the same, but at an appropriate time in the mission you get the option to kill the Malta operative in a dialog window; they're all unpowered humans, so it would make narrative sense that they'd be easily put down by an incarnate. Then, after the mission your character just tells Max the operative died in the rescue attempt.

 

This would also open up some other neat possibilities: taking this option could give you a point into your Rogue or Vigilante alignment bars, and if you kill all three operatives Max figures out what you've been doing, and you could throw his logic about how the two of you working together is the only way to survive right back at his face. Then, the last mission of the arc plays out with any killed operatives not granting their benefit, as if you hadn't run the missions at all, but you still get credit towards the badge for doing all the arcs in DA.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Mostly because the moment you kill one of the major higher ups of Malta Max IS NOT going to help you anymore, probably, and he's the one who knows where the KoA monastery is, is sane enough to articulate it, and willing to trust you to any degree. I mean I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice but within the story, it wouldn't make much sense. At best, killing one operative will lead him to just remove the option for the other missions and send you to the KoA monastery.

 

Better idea though could be to make an 'extended' arc where you tag each of the Malta higher ups and then murder them later.

[Vanden]

 

47 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

At best, killing one operative will lead him to just remove the option for the other missions and send you to the KoA monastery.

That's why he wouldn't figure out that you're killing the operatives unless you kill all three. He still has no choice but to work with you; you're the incarnate, you're the one who stands a chance of taking down the Knives of Vengeance.

[siolfir]

So correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

You don't think it's heroic working with Malta, so instead you think you should slaughter the "unpowered humans" that are "easily put down" and then lie about it to the person who sent you there to rescue them. Because it's more heroic that way.

 

I mean, I'm not against having the option, but the reasoning seems a little suspect.

[Vanden]

17 minutes ago, siolfir said:

So correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

You don't think it's heroic working with Malta, so instead you think you should slaughter the "unpowered humans" that are "easily put down" and then lie about it to the person who sent you there to rescue them. Because it's more heroic that way.

 

I mean, I'm not against having the option, but the reasoning seems a little suspect.

Now I never used the word “heroic,” and I said they could make taking the option give you Vigilante or Rogue alignment points.

[VileTerror]

How about instead of murder, arrest them SO HARD it actually works this time?

[Vanden]

12 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

How about instead of murder, arrest them SO HARD it actually works this time?

One of them is already in police custody, so how would you complete the mission for that guy for badge credit, while leaving him exactly where he is?

[Sakura Tenshi]

So, not to say there wouldn’t be heroes or villains who think that way. You are presently racing to stop Mot from nomming the world and are trying to stop the Talons and Knives from hurrying that process along. So why would you spend the time and effort to go to those side missions if you’re so confident to not need malta’s help why take the extra who knows how long to go to those, tarnish your reputation with the PPD (in the case of a hero), all just to murder a bunch of guys who up front told you they can’t handle incarnate level threats like you anymore?

 

In otherwords: why are you going out of your way to kick a problem down the line when there is a very immediate problem already chewing your leg.

[Vanden]

28 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

So, not to say there wouldn’t be heroes or villains who think that way.

This was really all there is to write. There’s plenty of heroes who would take the option, and, more importantly, it gives players a way to earn the badge that requires these missions without having to help Malta.

[Sakura Tenshi]

You could run them in ouroboros or something?

 

Plenty of badges also require you to be a villain. Heck, I've had to take my heroes villain side for three days to get smokebomb day job powers. Just, why are the badges so important to you if aiding malta is so repulsive? I hate to toss out sayings but this really feels like a case of 'I want to have my cake and eat it too'.

[Chris24601]

I always took the Max missions to be an “enemy mine” team up situation.

 

And, with the exception of the guy in PPD custody (which I always skip), it’s not like you’re not also putting a stop to Arachnos and 5th Column plots to obtain incarnate power by rescuing the Malta operatives from those villain groups.

 

Freeing two non-incarnate Malta agents from the clutches of two of the worst villain groups around (one a literal group of Nazis bent on world domination) seems like a more than fair trade for stopping two major threats before they began AND securing aid to stop a third villain group from hastening the end of the world.

 

It’s basically akin to letting a couple of low-level criminal types off because they and their buddy helped you stop the plans of three terror cells. That’s a deal I could sleep soundly making.

 

Plus, it’s not like you can’t just go back to smashing Malta after Mot is dealt with. Just save the World Wide Red arc for after you run Dark Astoria and imagine the guys you rescued from Arachnos and the 5th Column to be among the nameless gunslingers and operatives you take down in that arc (heck, them trying to up their game via the Kronos Titan fits right into the lore of them seeking an edge vs. incarnate heroes and villains).

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I personally dont view malta as all that evil. In a world of living gods, and psions like sister psyche,penny yin, and the clockwork king,, groups like Malta and the SKy Raiders are actually more like a rebellion against the rising metaocracy that the world seems ever inching towards. Statesmans word was basically law to the U.S.A. and U.N. Only Recluse and his island nation seem to not be under that sway.  Even Crey and their worst actions can be seen as humanity trying to find the means to defend themselves from those who might act heroic today but choose to turn their power on the population tomorrow.

 

One of my fave ways to RP is as an anti META advocate. That power does not give people the right to any authority over non meta, that META no matter what their alignment are all viable threats to non meta. Keep in mind I also RP as a pro meta eugenicist on another character pushing to see all non meta only have children with meta to rapidly increase the meta population and basically put an end to non meta by people only having babies with powers,

 

Just some food for thought.

[Vanden]

4 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

It’s basically akin to letting a couple of low-level criminal types off because they and their buddy helped you stop the plans of three terror cells. That’s a deal I could sleep soundly making.

I think you mean two terror cells. But Max practically outright tells you Malta is planning on using the three operatives' talents to become incarnate-level threats; Sakura Tenshi claimed that killing the operatives was somehow kicking the problem down the road, but letting them back into Malta's hands fits that description far better.

 

4 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Plus, it’s not like you can’t just go back to smashing Malta after Mot is dealt with. Just save the World Wide Red arc for after you run Dark Astoria and imagine the guys you rescued from Arachnos and the 5th Column to be among the nameless gunslingers and operatives you take down in that arc (heck, them trying to up their game via the Kronos Titan fits right into the lore of them seeking an edge vs. incarnate heroes and villains).

That arc takes place long before incarnate stuff. Roleplaying that arc as trying to make up for helping Malta in DA would be willfully ignoring the actual lore of the game. So is completing the rescue missions in Ouroboros, as was also suggested here. But right now that's the only option you have if you want the badge, all you can do is save those operatives and then stick your fingers in your ears and go "la-la-la-no-I-didn't."

[Grouchybeast]

11 hours ago, Vanden said:

This was really all there is to write. There’s plenty of heroes who would take the option, and, more importantly, it gives players a way to earn the badge that requires these missions without having to help Malta.

Is there a badge for that?

[Vanden]

19 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Is there a badge for that?

Yes, there is a badge that requires completing all three rescue missions from Max.