Grav/Kin bad idea?

[Durus]

Rolled a Grav/Kin a few days ago, been good so far but not sure it’s a good combo.

Any thoughts?

[Erydanus]

Bad? no, it's top tier.

[Coyote]

Well, it's kind of not... but they're also both good sets and so the combination should be fine.

They don't really do much for each other that is especially good. Kinetics has no use for the mob repositioning that Gravity can do, it goes into short-range so it doesn't benefit from Gravity's all-ranged powers, and it's a very busy set to add on top of a busy primary.

Kinetics does help Gravity since Gravity is a high-damage set so boosting high damage is a good thing... but that's the only synergy between the two.

 

But, as I said, they're good sets. Put them together and you'll be fine even if they don't mesh that well together.

[Zeraphia]

If you plan to team a lot, it's great!

 

If you don't, I wouldn't personally but this may be fun to you!

[Erydanus]

10 hours ago, Coyote said:

Kinetics has no use for the mob repositioning that Gravity can do

Wormhole -> Fulcrum Shift.

[Coyote]

True, but running in and Fulcrum Shifting works well for other sets... it has a large enough radius that it's not hard to cap out the damage. Wormhole's main strength is in putting mobs into tight spaces so that small AoEs function better (Storm) and patch powers can be pre-dropped (Traps). Kinetics doesn't have patch powers or small AoE powers. It works fine with Grav because it's an excellent Controller secondary, but it works fine with most any primary.

[Redlynne]

3 hours ago, Erydanus said:

14 hours ago, Coyote said:

Kinetics has no use for the mob repositioning that Gravity can do

Wormhole -> Fulcrum Shift.

You can lead a man to water, but you cannot make him THINK ...

[Coyote]

You can't even lead a coyote to water, they go their own way 😉

[Erydanus]

Wormhole is not just about repositioning (which to be fair does require a knockback to knockdown enhancement for optimal use) it's also about stunning the mobs. Wormhole is no aggro, no notify and it's also a stun. That means you have the time necessary to exploit the super tight clumping for fulcrum shift and then throw the kitchen sink at them (both literally with propel and figuratively with any other attacks you and or your team want to use). 

 

Overall gravity is about controlling the battlefield. It has wormhole, it has the difficult to use right dimension shift, it has the amazing pet which can be used as a positioning tool or a damage dealing mini-me, it has the side effect of slow built into many of the powers so that even if you're not holding a mob it's probably running away slowly. Kinetics has a similar mandate, kinetics is quite literally about sucking the energy out of your foes and using it for yourself in various ways. I feel like the two synergize like paint & primer.  I don't think either set lets the other do something it can't do (like my personal fave grav/rad is basically about rad adding direct controls and might-as-well-be-held debuffs) but instead it's about making all the same things work but just better. It's also a combo that works exceptionally well for soloing OR for teaming. That's why I describe it as a 'top tier' combo. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Erydanus
typos!

[Redlynne]

11 hours ago, Erydanus said:

It's also a combo that works exceptionally well for soloing OR for teaming.

I made a Gravity/Time hero(ine) for Paragon City ... and at some point I'm going to find the time to finish making a Gravity/Kinetics counterpart that will start in Praetoria.  When I finalize the Gravity/Kinetics build I'll post it here in the forums, just like I have with all of my other builds.

 

My Gravity/Time Controller is named Topheavy Gs ... and she needed to develop quantum gravity manipulation technology as a defense against the onset of puberty(!).

I've already reserved the name Gravitoned Gal for my Gravity/Kinetics Controller ... and she'll be a "fitness nut" with a sculpted hardbody (and a remarkably similar bio/backstory).

[roleki]

/Kin absolutely can make good use of Wormhole - in fact, Wormhole is what makes Grav/Kin 'work' as well as it does.  As designed,  /Kin wants you in melee to get the best of your own buffs, and offers almost NO mitigation in return... as designed, it's all risk.  

 

But Wormhole that mob into a corner, and you suffer zero Alpha, siphon all the +Speed and +Damage you want, fill up on Endurance if you need to, and crush the daylights out of your mob without taking so much as a loud noise in return. As mentioned everywhere, with the KB-KD proc you don't even need to find a corner to do it in.  

 

Until /Time came along, /Kin was THE perfect complement to Grav/, with only a few weirdos opting to go /Rad.  

 

One thing I will say is that with the way the game has changed over the years, past a certain point, Grav/Kin is only 'useful' to solo with. Between IO bonuses and Incarnates, your impact on a team is kind of unnoticeable if  not nonexistent.  That's not to say there's anything bad about Grav/Kin, just that for much of the game, buffs and debuffs are about equally valuable, then buffs drop off a cliff and debuffs are all anyone is looking for.  Doesn't nix my love for Grav/Kin, but if I get a rando invite to a team, I'll ask to switch to something a little more dramatic.

[Without_Pause]

I don't think it is top tier. I would at least put things like Fire/kin and Elec/kin in that tier for the sake of synergy. Yes, I get Fire/kin is way in the lead as a favorite, but for the sake of synergy both play in melee with auras and Elec has -end which can be used with Transference.  Kin is by default better in teams. It works better with controllers since they get pets and mitigation, but Grav's pet is more known for adding control than offense. The added mitigation is welcome to a Kin. Hopefully any KB doesn't create too many issues.

 

Saying that, I think it's fine as a combo. Grav does solid damage. Boosting that is a good thing. Wormhole can be super helpful at times for positioning which matters to a Kin. Having more ranged attacks isn't that much of an issue considering I took a Kin/sonic to 50 on Live. You don't have to have auras or PBAoEs to be in melee. 😁 You can also hang back enough and get close as needed, again, see Kin/sonic. I probably mix/max a bit too hard to roll one, but I have thought about it, and I think the powers would work well enough together theme wise. Grab Fly/Hover and rain objects from above. 😂

[ninja surprise]

Thematically Grav/Kin go great, like you're a master of momentum and gravity.  Both are low-noise, light on the VFX.

 

You can hold things and use them as batteries to buff yourself while defeating them. You have more damaging attacks than any other controller and /Kin buffs up your damage and recharges them quicker. 

 

You'll have useful attacks and buffs pretty much every task force level.

 

It's quite Super.

[ScarySai]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:58 AM, Durus said:

Rolled a Grav/Kin a few days ago, been good so far but not sure it’s a good combo.

Any thoughts?

Hard to beat a well placed wormhole+fulcrum shift on teams.

 

 

[Dazl]

My main is grav/kin/fire, I love it. Since kinetic works best in melee range I have tough and weave. Throw kb-kd's in wormhole and singularity. Wormhole mobs to singy then hit them with fulcrum shift + transference and melt them down. Kinetic requires very little slotting so you have more for gravity. It is a very team friendly combo, and I have never felt like I wasn't a force multiplier on any team.