Leadership on Controller?

[You]

It is worth getting into Leadership for controller in general?

 

I am leveling up a Grav/Time and a Dark/Dark at the moment.  Not sure whether worth to consider taking any powers in Leadership.

 

Thanks!

[Redlynne]

14 minutes ago, You said:

It is worth getting into Leadership for controller in general?

YES.

Full stop.

14 minutes ago, You said:

I am leveling up a Grav/Time and a Dark/Dark at the moment.  Not sure whether worth to consider taking any powers in Leadership.

Assault and Tactics (especially if you slot the Gaussian's Build Up proc into Tactics!) are definitely worth getting.  Maneuvers is worth getting, but if you're short on slots and/or power picks would be the power to drop.  Vengeance is a good Luck of the Gambler global recharge mule (or Kismet proc or Karma KB Protection proc), making it a One Slot Wonder™ power that can benefit the entirety of your build even if you rarely if ever actually use Vengeance.  Victory Rush is purely optional, but can be a good idea to have with some builds to enhance their endurance management over the longer haul.

[Doomguide2005]

Did they change the way the "kismet proc" works,  i.e. kismet +6% accuracy?  Unless they have Vengeance is NOT a good place for it.  Kismet is ( or was?) a "proc 120" meaning the proc functioned when the power was activated and for 120 seconds thereafter.  So unless you could target a corpse every 120 seconds or less it wouldn't be beneficial in Vengeance.

But yes Leadership is quite beneficial for Controllers as stated "Full "Stop" 

 

PS: Part of the reason static teams like Fire/Rads are so effective is 8 Assaults stacked (+120% damage) on top of their other buffs and debuffs (like AM another +160% damage iirc).  

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Added PS

[Peacemoon]

Leadership is worth it if you can squeeze it in. It depends what powersets you have and what you can realistically skip, or not.

 

Also it depends on your priorities, as ever.

 

Sometimes it’s hard to know what you can skip until you’ve reached 50 and tried everything out.

[Call Me Awesome]

I'm pretty strongly in the camp of "get Leadership on any support type character".  Controllers get pretty good mileage out of the Big Three (Assault/Tactics/Maneuvers) with the first two having priority.

 

On the Kismet question, remember it's mislabeled, it's actually +6% To Hit, not Accuracy.  Accuracy is very easy to get, To Hit on the other hand is rare and much more valuable.  I have it on EVERY character I make, usually in Combat Jumping which most characters get for mobility and near zero endurance.  It needs to go into something you'll have active all the time; it'll shut off 2 minutes after you use the power it's slotted in.

[Doomguide2005]

Yes strictly speaking the math says Leadership should be the power(s) getting squeezed in not the other way around on support AT's.   But folks make plenty of choices that aren't strictly based on the math.  

 

Still just once get on a team running 8 of each leadership power with no enhancements slotted and run hard content.  Then ask this question again.  You'll know the answer without doubt.

[Without_Pause]

8 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Maneuvers is worth getting, but if you're short on slots and/or power picks would be the power to drop.

I'll take Maneuvers over Assault. Even more so for a Dark/dark. You can leave Maneuvers with a single slot just like Assault. You can actually slot Maneuvers with an IO worth a damn.

[Doomguide2005]

3 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I'll take Maneuvers over Assault. Even more so for a Dark/dark. You can leave Maneuvers with a single slot just like Assault. You can actually slot Maneuvers with an IO worth a damn.

On a Dark or other to hit debuff set I can see that.  Flip side is if your build produces large amounts of -resistance Assault will yield relatively greater return (vs sets without -resistance).  And if it's a Dark/Sonic get them both 😁

[Call Me Awesome]

5 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I'll take Maneuvers over Assault. Even more so for a Dark/dark. You can leave Maneuvers with a single slot just like Assault. You can actually slot Maneuvers with an IO worth a damn.

It all depends on the build.  Assault/Tactics are IMO a given, if you have no other source of defense then Maneuvers may be optional with it's 3.5% 2.6% base.  Assault gives you an 18.5% 15% damage increase; something that's universally useful.  Another 3.5% 2.6% defense (5.4% 4.1% slotted) may or may not be useful depending on your other choices and teammates.  Personally unless I'm building for over 20% defense already in a build I don't bother, much lower than that and another 5% 4% doesn't make a lot of difference.  Going from 0 defense to 4% defense is fairly pointless.  Going from 20% to 24% is more so, and going from 41% to 45% is huge.

 

Edit

Oops, I gave Defender numbers.  Well, with Controller numbers it makes the point even stronger.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Call Me Awesome

[NEW DAWN]

I ran full leaderships on some of my support characters, assault on scrappers, entire leaderships on Willpower characters, bits and pieces here and there... but if you do enough -tohit, maneuvers is less necessary, if you do enough -def then +tohit is less necessary, if you do -res, then just milk that with assault anyway. If your concept or entire build says "Screw what someone else has said, I need the "insert leadership power" because you have the main goal with your concept then clearly , you win. If in your quest for a niche or role within some aspect of the game says you can't afford to take leaderships then it's not a problem nor should it be. Using them in game, you enter some teams, you maybe overbaking something, turn them off for end gain, nothing big is happening turn them off until something is, but experience makes you wise as to when and where the crucial moments are.

Edited March 15, 2020 by NEW DAWN

[Peacemoon]

59 minutes ago, NEW DAWN said:

I ran full leaderships on some of my support characters, assault on scrappers, entire leaderships on Willpower characters, bits and pieces here and there... but if you do enough -tohit, maneuvers is less necessary, if you do enough -def then +tohit is less necessary, if you do -res, then just milk that with assault anyway. If your concept or entire build says "Screw what someone else has said, I need the "insert leadership power" because you have the main goal with your concept then clearly , you win. If in your quest for a niche or role within some aspect of the game says you can't afford to take leaderships then it's not a problem nor should it be. Using them in game, you enter some teams, you maybe overbaking something, turn them off for end gain, nothing big is happening turn them off until something is, but experience makes you wise as to when and where the crucial moments are.

Yes, which is why im debating Tactics on my Earth controller, because every earth power already does -20% defence. Plus with Freezing rain as well, it feels a bit overkill. 

[NEW DAWN]

1 minute ago, Peacemoon said:

Yes, which is why im debating Tactics on my Earth controller, because every earth power already does -20% defence. Plus with Freezing rain as well, it feels a bit overkill. 

If your team orientated, do TFs,  etc a lot, then Gaussian proc build up + def bonus could entice you but I would ask Redlynne about them if I were you, you'll either have the slots or not.

[Without_Pause]

7 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

It all depends on the build.  Assault/Tactics are IMO a given, if you have no other source of defense then Maneuvers may be optional with it's 3.5% 2.6% base.  Assault gives you an 18.5% 15% damage increase; something that's universally useful.  Another 3.5% 2.6% defense (5.4% 4.1% slotted) may or may not be useful depending on your other choices and teammates.  Personally unless I'm building for over 20% defense already in a build I don't bother, much lower than that and another 5% 4% doesn't make a lot of difference.  Going from 0 defense to 4% defense is fairly pointless.  Going from 20% to 24% is more so, and going from 41% to 45% is huge.

 

Edit

Oops, I gave Defender numbers.  Well, with Controller numbers it makes the point even stronger.

Sure, it depends on the build, but I've lost count the number of builds I've seen with Maneuvers due to LotG: + Recharge slotting.

 

I can't recall my Earth/storm's build, but I don't remember having the Leadership pool on it. The thing could just eat through end as this was before the Incarnate system. I tried doing it on my Plant/storm during it's leveling period this time around and often found I couldn't run the toggles without bottoming out quite quickly. I haven't done Incarnate stuff with it yet, but I'm not sure Assault is going to fit into it, Storm builds are well known for taking Cardiac for their Core.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, NEW DAWN said:

If your team orientated, do TFs,  etc a lot, then Gaussian proc build up + def bonus could entice you but I would ask Redlynne about them if I were you, you'll either have the slots or not.

By now my initial surmise on this topic has been tested ... and it works ...

[Force Redux]

I'm probably weird, but I take leadership on every character. Even my stalkers. And especially my support charterers (defenders, controllers, MMs). 

 

Always Tactics (I hate debuffs on perception, such as Arachnid), and either Maneuvers or Assault depending on AT/build. Vengeance if I have room.

 

This is coming from someone who never takes Fighting. Even on my Tankers. I'd rather take something that benefits a while group then just myself. I team 98% of the time. YMMV.

[Call Me Awesome]

6 hours ago, Force Redux said:

I'm probably weird, but I take leadership on every character. Even my stalkers. And especially my support charterers (defenders, controllers, MMs). 

 

Always Tactics (I hate debuffs on perception, such as Arachnid), and either Maneuvers or Assault depending on AT/build. Vengeance if I have room.

 

This is coming from someone who never takes Fighting. Even on my Tankers. I'd rather take something that benefits a while group then just myself. I team 98% of the time. YMMV.

Assault/Tactics goes on almost all of my damage dealing characters as well as all of my support characters.  Tankers are the only exception because I'm working with generally extremely tight builds and may not have room.  That may get some revision with the latest changes to Tankers now that they get Controller numbers out of the pool.