Softcapped positional vs typed defenses, positional seems to get hit more often

[fitzsimmons]

I haven't yet quantified this (I may run herostats to prove this out) but if I take a shield defense stalker and a bio armor stalker, the shield defense stalker gets hit more often out of hide.  The shield defense toon is softcapped to all positions (ranged, melee and AOE) and the bio armor is softcapped to all types except toxic and psionic.

 

I just stood them each in their own mob of lvl 53 council.  The shield defense toon was actually level shifted and still getting hit more often.

 

Are there more attacks that are typed only and have no positional attributes assigned to them?  Or is this some other issue?  Or am I just a crazy person?

 

I get the same feeling from my shield defense brutes, they get hit hard and often even though they're softcapped to all positions.

 

Anyway, thanks,

Dave

[Hjarki]

It really depends on what you're fighting. However, I find typed defenses generally easier on a melee character. For ranged characters, you can eliminate virtually all attacks by simply taking Ranged Defense and staying at range. For a melee character, you'd really need to take all 3 positional defenses to get the same sort of coverage.

 

Positional defenses also defend against any attack that has any of those attack types attached. So if someone fires an Icebolt at you, you can defend against with either Smashing or Cold.

 

Also, you need to remember that Stalkers have massive AoE defense... when they're hidden. When they're not hidden, that massive boost from Hide goes away. So you might not actually be soft-capped to AoE.

[SwitchFade]

Depends on what you fight, your DDR and what the relative levels/buffs are at play.

 

Positional and typed will yield the same results because they are a binary value.

 

Is the attack tagged with the appropriate type/position? Die roll check, miss or not.

 

That's it. If you're seeing significant variation, it is likely due to an attack that is untagged to the defense that you have.

[fitzsimmons]

It was against Council, same group of enemies but the toon who got hit more was actually level shifted.  No defense debuffs and both toons were out of hide and still softcapped to their defenses, monitored and confirmed via combat attributes.
 

I’ll spin up hero stats this week and dig a bit deeper.  I like shield toons, mine have just been taking a beating.

[StrikerFox]

It's probably just rng.

[r0y]

1 hour ago, fitzsimmons said:

...

I’ll spin up hero stats this week and dig a bit deeper.  I like shield toons, mine have just been taking a beating.

Does HeroStats even work still?  I vaguely remembering trying to get it to work, but was unsuccessful.

 

[fitzsimmons]

Just now, r0y said:

Does HeroStats even work still?  I vaguely remembering trying to get it to work, but was unsuccessful.

 

I used it a few months ago to track influence per hour when comparing multiple methods.  Unless something has changed, it works.  I don’t remember if I had to use a specific plugin, but if I did, I found the information within these forums.  On the surface, seemed to be really good.

[r0y]

23 minutes ago, fitzsimmons said:

I used it a few months ago to track influence per hour when comparing multiple methods.  Unless something has changed, it works.  I don’t remember if I had to use a specific plugin, but if I did, I found the information within these forums.  On the surface, seemed to be really good.

I figured it out:  you have to run the 32-bit client of the game; HeroStats does not work with the 64-bit one.

Seems it just doesn't work.  It's already been discussed in the forums, so I'm stopping this here.

Edited March 30, 2020 by r0y

[Riverdusk]

I'd think you could literally just look at the combat tab and see the rolls.  It'll say the enemies chance to hit you.  They should be the same if they are both soft capped.  If not you can try and dig into the why.

[Saikochoro]

I wanted to ask about shield defense also. I was about to make a new thread, but found this one. I don’t have anything other than anecdotal experience, but I’m having a similar issue. 
 

I have a dark/shield scrapper. I am over the softcap for melee and AOE and at the soft cap for range.

 

Several times now I have gone into a farm at +2/4 and get destroyed almost instantly. I make sure to only pull 1 mob too.  It’s like the defense isn’t there at all. I make sure via combat attributes that everything is on and all my positions are soft capped. But the alpha strike of a mob seems to entirely bypass the defense. It isn’t a slow whittling away, it’s as if none of the attacks missed. 
 

Compared to my blaster that is softcapped for S/L I can go into a S/L farm and last a lot longer as I can tell most of the attacks are missing. I can still eventually get overwhelmed, but I see that the defense is working. 
 

Several times in a row it’s as if the shield defense positional defenses arent deflecting anything on my scrapper. And I know for sure it isn’t because I forgot to turn on a toggle. 
 

Any ideas?

Edited March 31, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Shred Monkey]

2 hours ago, Saikochoro said:

 

Compared to my blaster that is softcapped for S/L I can go into a S/L farm and last a lot longer as I can tell most of the attacks are missing. I can still eventually get overwhelmed, but I see that the defense is working. 
 

*If* both are soft-capped, a blaster is much more survivable then a shield melee due to having about 2x more regen.

 

As mentioned above, look at the tohit rolls (I put it in it's own tab so I can bring it up if I want to monitor it).  It literally tells you the hit check for each attack. 

 

 

[Riverdusk]

Can confirm my SR stalker is surviving great, so it isn't about positional vs. typed in my experience.  Only time I was in danger recently was participating in one of the Nemesis raids a short while ago.  I'm assuming that is because of the stacking vengeance (so a ton of +tohit) the mobs get during one of those.  

Edited April 1, 2020 by Riverdusk

[Frosticus]

23 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

*If* both are soft-capped, a blaster is much more survivable then a shield melee due to having about 2x more regen.

 

As mentioned above, look at the tohit rolls (I put it in it's own tab so I can bring it up if I want to monitor it).  It literally tells you the hit check for each attack. 

 

 

well except shield has decent resists and good +hp, but I see what you mean.

 

I recently did a solo +4/8 itf without insp/temp/lore on my sav/shield stalker, so positionals are working for me