Optionally disable the 5 grace levels when exemplaring

[thunderforce]

(This came up in the giant incarnate thread, but is a separate idea which I'd like to propose.)

 

I would find it very useful to be able to have an option to disable the 5 "grace" levels when exemplaring, losing the extra powers and set bonuses they bring, akin to the existing option to disable XP when exemplaring.

 

I could be mistaken, but I believe this would be extremely easy to implement. It seems it would require adding an option to the interface (something HC manifestly can do), changing the 5 uses of EXEMPLAR_GRACE_LEVELS to be  ((option set) ?  0 : EXEMPLAR_GRACE_LEVELS), and presumably something to make the value of that option visible in that code (but again, the existing XP-while-exemplar option does that).

 

(As such, I hope we can skip at least some of the replies saying "I wouldn't use this". I don't expect everyone, or a majority, to use it - but if it _is_ very easy to implement, it could be worth doing anyway.)

 

My motivation is that at the moment I often team with friends who are new to the game. Even if an exemplared character is slotted with SOs, they'd be strong; in the new world of "always buy attuned", they are very strong, even given that I am buying my friends their own sets as soon as possible. Getting 2-3 powers (and set bonuses) on top of that is just gravy. If I go all out, they'd be passengers; that's no way for them - or me - to enjoy the game. Losing those extra powers would help a great deal.

 

("Don't use those extra powers": that doesn't disable autopowers or set bonuses. "Start a new character": I could, but my existing characters are - after all - ones I enjoy playing, and surely much of the point of Super Sidekicking is to make it easy for characters at different levels to team together. "Use multiple builds and slot with SOs": perhaps my build slots are already used because I'm a VEAT, have a PVP build, am a defender with a soloing build with no team support powers...)

[SwitchFade]

As long as this would be very minimal Dev time invested, like a half-hour at most, then sure.

[thunderforce]

On 3/31/2020 at 1:49 PM, SwitchFade said:

As long as this would be very minimal Dev time invested, like a half-hour at most, then sure.

I think they're better positioned to budget their own time.

 

I should say, while I expect this would be a minority interest, I don't think it would be just me by any means. From the thread about Judgement powers, I think there are many players who prefer that team members not completely overshadow each other.

[Grouchybeast]

I'm all for options.

 

(And even moreso if it was added in as a mission option in Ouro, and there were a set of badges for using it.  Mmm...badges.)

[Chance Jackson]

Sure as long as it's optional 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I just cant see why we should be giving such control to a party leader in general. On TFs for challenge badges sure. But your position is that the 5 levels make us over shadow the team. As if it isnt almost entirely player knowledge and build ability that creates the real divide. Keep in mind the entire concept of exemplaring is the higher lvl is the hero, the lower level is still the sidekick. We re suppose to be stronger then them both mechanically and from an RP pov.

 

With unlimited character slots, if you want a toon for playing with legitimate new players, then make one and play a static duo with them and hold yourself back. Creating options that let people limit others on their team is really iffy, and when folks blindside others on TFs by using the challenge options Ive already seen such instantly lead to the tf team dissolve as people really dont like others placing their limits on them in actual play from what Ive seen.

 

The simple fact is that those who build casually vs those who build optimally are always going to be on different points in the power spectrum and thats a good thing. Its how we are able to choose what our characters own place on such a spectrum should be. However wanting to be able to place restrictions on others just because especially outside of TFs and the pursuit of challenge badges just smacks of wanting to dictate how others play.

 

Not to mention the divide between optimal power combo pairing and random concept pairing. Your basically saying you cant control yourself when playing with a newbie and really if your goal is to bring a newbie in you should be on a support toon to support them while they play the active combat hero role.

 

IME most newbies/casuals expect us more veteran players to over shadow them and be able to do things they just cant yet. The trick as a vet is to make such a learning experience and be able to teach them how to step up their own game.

 

There are Bruce Waynes, Dick Graysons, and jason todds. The JTs are often over eager, over confident, and maybe a tad envious of the DGs, The DGs have worked hard to get  out from under the shadow of  the BWs, but well when your a BW the shadow you cast will cover all of those around you because that is the nature of things.

 

Sidekicks are not heroes......yet. Instead of trying to drag heroes down to the level of sidekicks, the answer will always be that heroes need to be training the sidekicks better. Considering how many Ive had leave SGs to join mine because I am active in the role of mentoring and teaching, it tells me the real issue is as always too many out there not taking on the mantle of teacher.

 

Even you OP, are you just tossing them sets or are you teaching them. Are you explaining why some power pools synergize better with others? Why some set themes work better with some power pools better? How to make use of the fewer slots while leveling via franken setting? After all going full IO set during leveling is actually not that good a thing unless some powers are just being left unslotted and largely useless to fill out sets ona  few powers faster.

 

Be better, be Batman and raise a batfamily that will soar with you rather then push to clip the wings for the sake of those still clinging to their mothers.

[thunderforce]

23 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I just cant see why we should be giving such control to a party leader in general.

No-one has proposed to give this control to a party leader in general. I have proposed to give it to the individual who is exemplared. Grouchybeast has proposed that it be a challenge mode for TF/Trial/Ouro (and that seems like a good idea to me). Perhaps you are thinking of the Incarnates thread, where team leader control of Incarnate powers was suggested?

 

"Why not just start a new character" was dealt with above. "really if your goal is to bring a newbie in you should be on a support toon to support them while they play the active combat hero role" - or maybe I should let them play the character they want to play, even if that's a support role. (I might gently guide them away from empathy defender, though...)

 

None of your rhetoric really seems to touch on how the game would be worse for you if the option of doing this existed, given that you could just not use it. (Yes, if Grouchybeast's idea is implemented, you might end up on TFs with it, but as you already note, there are already all kinds of things a TF leader can do to you that restrict your character's power.)

Edited April 2, 2020 by thunderforce

[Chris24601]

I say add it as a slider underneath the auto-exemplar/sidekick sliders under options with a range of 0-5 grace levels.

 

Completely under the player’s control for those who want it; forced on no one.

[Coyotedancer]

This could be good fun as a TF/SF or Ouro challenge mode. +1 for that idea.

 

How well I would like it myself in regular play, though? I dunno. I typically only exemp with my support characters (Most often with Ivory, my Time/Dark Defender-) and when I'm doing that, I'm often there as sort of a "security blanket"... a back-up or an insurance policy, in other words. Someone who can, potentially, help pull the proverbial fat of the lower level characters she's running with out of the metaphorical fire if things go pear-shaped. Those five grace levels and the extra power or two, and the set bonuses that come with them, are a big portion of what allows her to serve in that role. 

 

So... yeah. On the one hand, options are good. On the other, it would put a hole through the middle of a particular role/playstyle I enjoy quite a lot.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[thunderforce]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

So... yeah. On the one hand, options are good. On the other, it would put a hole through the middle of a particular role/playstyle I enjoy quite a lot.

Surely in that case you could just leave it off, leaving your playstyle un-holed?

[Coyotedancer]

1 hour ago, thunderforce said:

Surely in that case you could just leave it off, leaving your playstyle un-holed?

 

That depends on how it's done... If it's a personal choice, sure. If it's a team-lead choice like the regular challenge settings, I wouldn't be able to.

[thunderforce]

Just now, Coyotedancer said:

That depends on how it's done... If it's a personal choice, sure. If it's a team-lead choice like the regular challenge settings, I wouldn't be able to.

I was responding to "How well I would like it myself in regular play, though?", where it would be a personal choice. If it were a TF challenge setting (and that's definitely a stretch goal, because it would be more work), sure, but as you know a TF leader can already do all kinds of things in that general vein.

[Coyotedancer]

I was responding to the idea up-thread that one way it could be implemented was as a team lead choice in-general, rather than as an option specific to Ouro or particular task force content.... But hey, if the idea that I'm not 100% sold on that irks you,  you can always just ignore-list me and you won't have to see the post. 

[thunderforce]

16 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

I was responding to the idea up-thread that one way it could be implemented was as a team lead choice in-general

No-one has proposed that. One person said it would be a bad idea to do that (even though no-one had proposed it). So by all means don't be 100% sold on it - no-one's suggested it.

[golstat2003]

If it's for you an exemplar choice (and NOT the team leader) then sure.