Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[skoryy]

10 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

It's a game change at that point and it's also something that could have been discussed since it's not the primary source of influence "inflation" as you call it which is just absurd in the first place since merit farming/converters are 100x worse.

Merits and converters cause 100x worse influence inflation.  Um.  How?

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Eran Rist said:

Except that merit farming earns merits - doesn't had inf to the system. Converters use merits (no inf) or are bought off the market (established as deflationary due to market fees). Both help create rare items in larger quantities than normally dropped by RNG.

That's the opposite of causing inflation. Farming causes inflation because the farmer toons substitute inf for time/merits/effort.

 

1 minute ago, skoryy said:

Merits and converters cause 100x worse influence inflation.  Um.  How?

 

Well, maybe not specifically adding influence no but haven't you ever wondered why theres 999999 LOTG procs and 2 of everything else? Converters are a gigantic issue in terms of market stability. A lot more than there just being a lot of influence.

[skoryy]

Just now, Super Atom said:

Well, maybe not specifically adding influence no but haven't you ever wondered why theres 999999 LOTG procs and 2 of everything else? Converters are a gigantic issue in terms of market stability. A lot more than there just being a lot of influence.

OK, so now we're at 999999 LOTG and other high demand IOs on the market being a bad thing. 🤔

[Super Atom]

Just now, skoryy said:

OK, so now we're at 999999 LOTG and other high demand IOs on the market being a bad thing. 🤔

 

When theres ten million LOTG procs and nothing else? Yes. It's a bad thing.

[ForeverLaxx]

12 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I read the dev replies and i don't really care what their reason for sneak nerfing something is. I don't like it, I never said they never responded i just said it wasn't cool. Don't accuse people of not knowing how to read if you can't. There's no real reason for it to be an "Exploit" since it's just been a thing for 7 years of their time as being in charge of what does and doesn't happen in this game. It's a game change at that point and it's also something that could have been discussed since it's not the primary source of influence "inflation" as you call it which is just absurd in the first place since merit farming/converters are 100x worse.

You know what happens when a dev team announces they're about to remove an exploit in the next patch? Everyone using it will double their efforts and people who weren't aware of it suddenly start using it too so they can get in on the action before it's gone. Not announcing an exploit fix before the fix is shipped is how you avoid that scenario. Whether or not you like that practice has no bearing on it being the right way to do things with regards to exploits.

 

It's unfortunate that removing all bonus influence while exemplar'd went away with the exploit, but clearly the devs felt that fixing the exploit alone wasn't enough to slow the flow of influence entering the market.

 

Converting merits into converters is something else entirely and not really a problem anyway. It's not about people having money, it's about an economy that has too much money coming in with no exchange of resources. Merits have their own value and turning them into influence through selling converters removes those merits from your inventory, puts product on the market for people who market flip, and removes influence from the market through fees. Again, it's not about reducing the amount of money individuals have; it's about lowering the amount of incoming "free" money.

[Super Atom]

Just now, ForeverLaxx said:

words

 

So when common IO recipes ost 10-12 million each because of converters that's totally fine? Ridiculous train of thought. Influence is a made up currency that is basically constantly being printed in excess. You're not going to stabilize it by nerfing farming slightly. The real issue with the market is not influence.

[Errants]

2 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

When theres ten million LOTG procs and nothing else? Yes. It's a bad thing.

Do you know how those were all made? Conversion. And if the market is saturated with 10,000,000 LotG Proc, their value will drop. Then, if someone wants a Def, Def/End or one of the other 3 usually useless ones in the set? They can convert them. SHOCK!

[Super Atom]

Just now, Eran Rist said:

Do you know how those were all made? Conversion. And if the market is saturated with 10,000,000 LotG Proc, their value will drop. Then, if someone wants a Def, Def/End or one of the other 3 usually useless ones in the set? They can convert them. SHOCK!

 

So your idea to stabilize the market is just to force everyone to convert procs to other things? DO you realize how stupid that sounds?

[ForeverLaxx]

Just now, Super Atom said:

 

words, because apparently it's easier to rebut someone when you cut out what they said

If you want to argue a point, then argue a point. Making up a bunch of stuff to be mad about so you can mad isn't productive.

[skoryy]

Just now, Super Atom said:

So when common IO recipes ost 10-12 million each because of converters that's totally fine?

 

I regularly sell lvl 50 common recipes for less than 100k a pop.  I check uncommons on the AH before I convert 'em, they regularly sell for less than 1 million each.

 

Look, if you're going to continually over-exaggerate without any basis of what's actually in-game, I'm not sure how we're supposed to have a conversation.

[Super Atom]

Just now, ForeverLaxx said:

If you want to argue a point, then argue a point. Making up a bunch of stuff to be mad about so you can mad isn't productive.

I cut it down because it was a long reply someone can just go back and read without clogging up the page.

 

I'm arguing my point that influence isn't the problem converters are. I don't give a damn about the nerf other than i don't like when they stealth nerf stuff.

[DMW45]

5 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

You know what happens when a dev team announces they're about to remove an exploit in the next patch? Everyone using it will double their efforts and people who weren't aware of it suddenly start using it too so they can get in on the action before it's gone. Not announcing an exploit fix before the fix is shipped is how you avoid that scenario. Whether or not you like that practice has no bearing on it being the right way to do things with regards to exploits.

Again, this goes beyond fixing an exploit.  They fixed the patrol xp exploit, and removed the system entirely without any feedback period.  That is what's annoying

[Peerless Girl]

27 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I read the dev replies and i don't really care what their reason for sneak nerfing something is. I don't like it, I never said they never responded i just said it wasn't cool. Don't accuse people of not knowing how to read if you can't. There's no real reason for it to be an "Exploit" since it's just been a thing for 7 years of their time as being in charge of what does and doesn't happen in this game. It's a game change at that point and it's also something that could have been discussed since it's not the primary source of influence "inflation" as you call it which is just absurd in the first place since merit farming/converters are 100x worse.

Don't accuse people of "sneaking something in" when it was explained why it was done. That you choose not to *believe* it is another issue entirely. It was explained when it became an exploit, only after there were levels above 50, because all it did before was speed the journey and inf you got for all of 1 level, which is outside the range of what is normal for the game (and back early on that was XP meant to pay off debt when EX'd down, it just transferred to INF if you happened to be dropping down to run lowbie content, or play with friends. That wasn't really an issue before the game had what one would constitute as an economy.

 

It was further exacerbated by the "double INF" switch that was added with SSKing. It's a compounding of multiple issues that started back early, got worse, and was finally capped off by Vet Levels/XP above 50. That part of it COULD'VE been discussed, except discussing it required disclosing an exploit that I'm sure they didn't want disclosed until fixed. It's just an unfortunate confluence of events, but I think everything that needs to be said on it has been said, and people will ascribe whatever feelings, ill-will or motive they wish. I myself hope the Inf gain while EXd isn't TOO impacted, as it was always an extra incentive to play lower stuff with friends, it won't affect what I do regardless, but such is life, there are downsides to upsides, to move forward sometimes you have to break a few eggs, etc. etc.

 

Just because it's not the "primary source" of inflation doesn't mean it's not *A* source of it. As Jimmy said I suspect they'll be doing things down the line to bring other playstyles in line as well, as they have for nearly a year now. We should be celebrating the upcoming anniversary, not being divisive. That's just my take on it. Merit Farming/converters aren't an issue, because they end up on the MARKET which only moves Influence AROUND between players, and takes it's cut as it does, it does not manufacturer new influence out of thin air, as farming (or playing normally etc.) does. This is frankly, just an issue of you either grossly misunderstanding how the mechanics of the game works, or (more likely) twisting their interpretation to suit your own agenda. Neither one looks that great. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Peerless Girl
Formatting and clarity.

[Super Atom]

Just now, skoryy said:

 

I regularly sell lvl 50 common recipes for less than 100k a pop.  I check uncommons on the AH before I convert 'em, they regularly sell for less than 1 million each.

 

Look, if you're going to continually over-exaggerate without any basis of what's actually in-game, I'm not sure how we're supposed to have a conversation.

So just because you undercut other people and sell it for a regular price everyone else must do it too right? It's pretty much that way for anything with a proc. Either the rest of the set is expensive because of the proc and converters or theres none left.

[ForeverLaxx]

Just now, Super Atom said:

I cut it down because it was a long reply someone can just go back and read without clogging up the page.

 

I'm arguing my point that influence isn't the problem converters are. I don't give a damn about the nerf other than i don't like when they stealth nerf stuff.

It wasn't a stealth nerf, it was an exploit fix. That's not even a semantics argument, so don't try pulling that one out either.

 

Converters aren't a problem and are, believe it or not, one of the reasons the prices are so low to begin with. How in the world you can argue that it's an issue is entirely beyond me.

[Errants]

Just now, Super Atom said:

So your idea to stabilize the market is just to force everyone to convert procs to other things? DO you realize how stupid that sounds?

You realize, that that is how it is working, now? And that the reason there's so many +7.5% recharge is because they're being converted to that, and then placed on the market?

 

That the salvage market is stable because all rarity salvage exists as all types once listed and until bought?

[SwitchFade]

16 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

Way to completely miss the point.... but hey, you got to lecture someone about economics, so I guess you got some fun out of it.

I'm very sorry you feel that way, but you may have misread. You stated that marketeering is bad/problematic/an issue, which it is not.  Economics doesn't work that way.

[Super Atom]

Just now, ForeverLaxx said:

It wasn't a stealth nerf, it was an exploit fix. That's not even a semantics argument, so don't try pulling that one out either.

 

Converters aren't a problem and are, believe it or not, one of the reasons the prices are so low to begin with. How in the world you can argue that it's an issue is entirely beyond me.

lmao ok. I guess we can just agree to disagree and just move on before either of us just say the same thing a hundred times.

[skoryy]

Just now, Super Atom said:

So just because you undercut other people and sell it for a regular price everyone else must do it too right? It's pretty much that way for anything with a proc. Either the rest of the set is expensive because of the proc and converters or theres none left.

Well, I guess you don't want to have a conversation then.  Okely dokely.

[DMW45]

Just now, ForeverLaxx said:

It wasn't a stealth nerf, it was an exploit fix. That's not even a semantics argument, so don't try pulling that one out either.

 

Converters aren't a problem and are, believe it or not, one of the reasons the prices are so low to begin with. How in the world you can argue that it's an issue is entirely beyond me.

Again, it went beyond fixing the exploit--it's not fixing the bug between patrol xp and double inf while exemplared that's the issue, it's taking out the mechanic entirely.

[Super Atom]

Just now, skoryy said:

Well, I guess you don't want to have a conversation then.  Okely dokely.

You're right i don't. Just accept we disagree and move on.

[ForeverLaxx]

4 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

Again, this goes beyond fixing an exploit.  They fixed the patrol xp exploit, and removed the system entirely without any feedback period.  That is what's annoying

You double-posted, in case you want to fix the second post. Just giving you a headsup.

 

I don't necessarily disagree that removing bonus influence while exemplar'd might have been unfairly targeted as a preemptive response, but it's clear they didn't like the practice of farmers exemplar'ing to 49 to AFK farm for faster influence gain than you'd get at 50 doing regular content. Maybe they'll have extra rewards in the future to offset it? Only they know, but as it stands currently, it's not even that big of an issue in the grand scheme of everything.

 

EDIT: then you repeated yourself a third time, quoting a different post of mine. I really don't need you to do that to see your posts, you know.

Edited April 1, 2020 by ForeverLaxx
Updating response

[Crysis]

This is tiresome.  Learn a game, watch it run it course and die, learn its back (actually been around all this time, just in hiding), fall in love with it again, watch the same cycle of diminishing playerbase happen all over again, live through nerfs and enhancements all trying to fix the thing.....arguments ensue, rinse, repeat.

 

Just...tiresome.

 

Chess anyone?

[Peerless Girl]

4 minutes ago, skoryy said:

Well, I guess you don't want to have a conversation then.  Okely dokely.

I think it became clear that this person didn't want to have a conversation about 6 posts ago (of course that's true of many posters on the Internet).

[DMW45]

1 minute ago, ForeverLaxx said:

You double-posted, in case you want to fix the second post. Just giving you a headsup.

 

I don't necessarily disagree that removing bonus influence while exemplar'd might have been unfairly targeted as a preemptive response, but it's clear they didn't like the practice of farmers exemplar'ing to 49 to AFK farm for faster influence gain than you'd get at 50 doing regular content. Maybe they'll have extra rewards in the future to offset it? Only they know, but as it stands currently, it's not even that big of an issue in the grand scheme of everything.

Them taking it out in and of itself is annoying, but overall meh.  But doing something this big without discussing it first feels like a misstep--and that's my issue with it.  The devs even undercut the 'exploit fix' thing too when they themselves admitted everyone was using the exploit anyway, even if they didn't know about it.