It's time to recognize Domination is bad.

[kenlon]

50 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

ou can say 'I want to keep perma Dom as a general principle of any changes', but you can't claim that Redlynne's solution doesn't fix the issue of haves and have-nots.  It absolutely does.

That is absolutely true. Which is why you will note, if you read my post, I didn't do that - he said that the issue at hand in this topic was that being able to perma Domination at all was bad, which no one in the thread before him was saying., so I restated what we had been talking about up until that point. *shrug*

 

His idea is the original idea that Replacement posted in the OP of this thread, only with a bit heavier application of the nerf bat, in that the Dominator would not be able to start rebuilding the bar before Domination had worn off. This would absolutely address the issue I had, though I don't think going that far is required. Not to mention that the amount of pushback that current permadom players would unleash in response would be most festive indeed.

 

[KelvinKole]

Taking a slightly different position here than I normally do in regards to game balance, but I don't actually think the existence of Permadom is a problem. Given that it's largely unreachable outside of high-end late game builds, I don't think it tips the scales too far. The truth is, control is nice to have, not necessary, at that level; Most tuned 50's don't care if that boss  can hit them or not, they can tank the damage and come out unscathed. Similarly, longer mez duration doesn't matter when entire groups drop in 5-10 seconds, so Domination isn't actually all that valuable. Most groups would probably rather have a controller that can provide some buff/debuff. In solo play, the story changes and it's the difference between life and death but for an Archetype who's only means of survival is to lock stuff down I think it's fine that they're able to do it reliably.

 

Consider this a vote for making Permadom MORE accessible, thus providing better flexibility and diversity in builds while eliminating the steep performance wall between non-permas and permas.

Edited April 21, 2020 by KelvinKole

[r0y]

Permadom is not the problem with Dominators:  Too many powers to click is.  They do OK damage (I play a lot of blasters, I can say that), they have really cool "assault" secondaries (though Blasters got some much needed love and changes there with HC), so it makes sense to compare Blasters and Dominators:  both squishies that want to do as much damage as possible.

 

I can do more damage with my blaster in less time and with fewer clicks.  I cannot mez as much or as well.  Darn.  My damage also scales up the more I blast!  Yay!

 

I can mez more mobs with my dominator in less time but with the same amount of clicks (as say, a /plant blaster).  Goodie?  I get mezz protection and awesome mag to my mez powers the more I blast/mez.  Awesome!

 

That's how I see the two.  Wanting to take away permadom will make dominators even more unattractive to many players (blasters).  I remember when I rolled my water blast/plant manipulation(?) blaster:  wow, this is what I would like in a dominator!  I'd give up domination for better damage, fewer clicks, no need for melee range!  Nice!  Plant secondary on a blaster = ghetto dominator.   I think I'll go make a fire/plant.

[Tater Todd]

9 hours ago, r0y said:

Permadom is not the problem with Dominators:  Too many powers to click is.  They do OK damage (I play a lot of blasters, I can say that), they have really cool "assault" secondaries (though Blasters got some much needed love and changes there with HC), so it makes sense to compare Blasters and Dominators:  both squishies that want to do as much damage as possible.

 

I can do more damage with my blaster in less time and with fewer clicks.  I cannot mez as much or as well.  Darn.  My damage also scales up the more I blast!  Yay!

 

I can mez more mobs with my dominator in less time but with the same amount of clicks (as say, a /plant blaster).  Goodie?  I get mezz protection and awesome mag to my mez powers the more I blast/mez.  Awesome!

 

That's how I see the two.  Wanting to take away permadom will make dominators even more unattractive to many players (blasters).  I remember when I rolled my water blast/plant manipulation(?) blaster:  wow, this is what I would like in a dominator!  I'd give up domination for better damage, fewer clicks, no need for melee range!  Nice!  Plant secondary on a blaster = ghetto dominator.   I think I'll go make a fire/plant.

As much as I love Dominators (which is a VERY strong love considering that I pretty much LIVE in the HC Dominator channel) I barely played them for the first few months when the game came back.  The new version of Blasters are what I always wanted my Doms to be like.  Doms often are regarded as "Too Strong" or "OP" when in reality they require an extreme amount of skill and know how to make them perform on a level akin to a Scrapper or Blaster and that's considering Dominator Outliers like Plant/Fire or ???/Martial Assault before the adjustments.  I still feel like Domination needs tweaking but I'm stumped when it comes to what I think would be a good solution for them :/.

[Cyndraeth]

So here's my 2c as a fairly new player who was really enjoying their dom up until I tried to solo anything. Domination sucks. Exclusively active defenses plus a bar you have to fill plus enemies that resist mez harder than you do while CCing you is not an enjoyable experience. Really wanted to stick with the AT, but when it goes bad, it is just absolutely horrible. I don't mean horrible in group effectiveness - it was really quite fun, most of the time, in those cases - but solo it is utterly miserable.

 

Another awkward thing about this AT is that because of the way domination works, if you're unfamiliar with all the various anti-CC buffs and whatnot, you won't actually really get to see what any of them do or look like--unless dom drops, maybe because you looked away for a second or answered a message, and suddenly none of your abilities work at all.

 

What really stuck out to me is that I was capable of soloing *certain* +4/8s, and yet there were missions that felt impossible even on +0/0. It's a baffling, inconsistent experience.

 

I guess this is more an attempt to support the OP's stance that this is a problem moreso than suggest solutions. Having the bar start out full would provide an easier baseline to balance such an awkward mechanic around, I think.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Cyndraeth

[Golden Azrael]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:02 PM, Replacement said:

I figure now is the time to post this, now that I'm on my last shred of willingness to fight with people who just "nope" anything that will improve this game.  I made this topic because I truly believe Dominators should be accessible to all player types.

 

If you like current Domination because it requires you to be "this tall to ride" in regards to knowing IOs well enough to Permadom, your opinion is not welcome here.

The goal is to see Domination become accessible without impacting the performance of people who already enjoy their Dominators.

 

Primary issue: The more optimized your Dominator build, the more homogeneous it is.

If you love your Dominator just the way it is, you're probably building it the same way as every other good Dominator build: Permadom.  How many powers are you using to make sure you have enough LotG mules?  How many set bonuses are you only caring about Global Recharge?  Just how much of your build is really your own? 

 

Sub-issue: too many clicks, forcing you to give up "cool" for "power"

The AT that cares most about global recharge also happens to already have the most Clicks.  This means if you want your Dominator to be good (with its ever-increasing global recharge), you will always prefer to optimize your routine to just a few clicks, with all other powers being largely-situational (and mostly just IO mules) where they aren't passive/toggles like that Maneuvers you grabbed just for the 7.5% extra Global Recharge.

 

In-line TL;DR: In case I'm not clear.  Dominator has to make powergame choices if it wants to compete at a level that many other ATs simply get to by Enhancing (Even crafted IOs).  

 

Next issue: Unbalanceable

Permadom is head-and-shoulders above "1 second shy of Permadom." This is a nightmare.  If you balance the class around the assumption of Permadom, anything shy of that is vastly underpowered.  If you balance towards no permadom, how can pemadom possibly be balanced?  So it becomes difficult to say with a straight face that it's safe to raise/lower rate of Domination bar filling, for example, since you have to perfectly capture how both "versions" of the AT perform.

 

Solutions

Lots!  There are many ways to fix this and I would support many of them.  Please be aware that I care more about recognition that this is a problem that needs fixed than any of the solutions I list below.

 

But here is the simplest: Dump Domination bar on ability activation instead of buff expiry.

• CON: current permadominators will need to ensure they are refilling their bar again before their bar is up (SEE BELOW**)
• PRO: Losing Domination will no longer completely remove your momentum.
• PRO: Jekyll and Hyde feeling is maintained.  
• PRO: Build requirements to be "good" are eased significantly.
• PRO: Power develops on a curve instead of a sudden spike at the end.

 

This doesn't fix all issues.  Optimal builds will still be optimal, so this isn't a huge sea change. It does, however, bridge the gap between these two types of players.

** This change also makes the class far easier to balance.  If this change were implemented, Development would also be able to tweak Domination bar fill-rate without severe repercussions. 

 

Other solutions? I think there are other solutions, and probably better ones, but most of them start to incur "cottage" costs.  An example would be turning Domination into a toggle that costs Domination per second instead of Stamina.  It'd be great to get to go nuts and make "tool for everything" builds with all of my clicks, but it would have a much higher impact on current builds.  

 

Appendix: Mechanics.

In case the reader isn't aware, the clutch detail of Domination is the bar emptying out when the buff expires.  If Domination is off of cooldown to be used again before that point, you simply Click it to push out how long until the bar wears off another 2 minutes.  This means if you are even 1 second short of permadom, you will need to work to fill your bar again, and thus be locked out of Domination for all the time required to refill.

With it being a democracy and all, I'm sure you don't mind if I offer my opinions, welcome or not.  In the sleep of the game's absence we couldn't have this debate.  Now we can.

 

It's the 1st I've heard of it.  Dominators having a 'problem.'

 

I have a perma elec/elec perma hasten and perma domi.  It's a work of art and I consulted community's builds to build it.

 

The only thing better than what I currently have?  Would be to have Domination perma like the insta snipe democratisation.

 

or having Rage Perma.

 

or Having hasten perma.

 

It costs to have these things.  But having a build is all about making choices and sacrifices.  Part of the fun of building.  If everything came easy.

 

But I can see why the snipe was taken from behind the iO pay wall.  It's been a fantastic addition in the spirit of the games 'pick up and play' modus operandi.

 

My elec/elec domi is a bit tippy tappy damage.  But if I want more damage I could go fire/stone.

 

Perma domi and Hasten?  I'd take it if was made inherent in the way the fitness pool was.  Or Rage.

 

I don't see why you couldn't make these slottable permas via SOs.

 

Perma Hasten used to be perma with SOs.  And yes.  It cost many slots to do that.  But I liked it.

 

Getting Perma Hasten now is a more arcane and complex maths science.

 

The holy trinity of Defence Cap/Perma Hasten and the all important Perma Domi?  It took some doing but I did it.  It's great to play.  It's build for control and end draining.  The damage is 2ndary.

 

As for Dominators?  They are a work of art as an AT.

 

Control with Melee?  What more could you want?  They have enough punch but they trade that for being brittle in HPs and other such things.

 

But yes, when you press that almight GOD button?  Matters change?

 

The tactics of control close to melee blast/blap/melee are intoxicating.  Stay at range?  Go for blap?  Or a mix of the two? 

 

So many buttons to press....which way is the right way said Alice.

 

And...the intoxicating power of domination?

 

🙂

 

Azrael.

 

 

[Golden Azrael]

15 hours ago, Tater Todd said:

As much as I love Dominators (which is a VERY strong love considering that I pretty much LIVE in the HC Dominator channel) I barely played them for the first few months when the game came back.  The new version of Blasters are what I always wanted my Doms to be like.  Doms often are regarded as "Too Strong" or "OP" when in reality they require an extreme amount of skill and know how to make them perform on a level akin to a Scrapper or Blaster and that's considering Dominator Outliers like Plant/Fire or ???/Martial Assault before the adjustments.  I still feel like Domination needs tweaking but I'm stumped when it comes to what I think would be a good solution for them :/.

The only mild criticism of Dominators I have...is when Domination drops?  It can take a while to build up...whilst eg. Super Strength can have perma Rage with 'only' (an annnoying amount of ) 10-20 secs down time.

 

Dom' takes alot longer to build up.  Perhaps IT is a touch on the long side.  And you're brittle and vulnerable until then.  But them's the ropes.

 

But it also comes down to skill to play the AT.  It requires some, of course.  It's not easy like Brutes or Tanks or scrappers which can wander in and take a beating.  Try that with a 'naked' Domi and you're going to get your head kicked in my san.

 

Blasters since i24 are their own thing.  They've definitely been fixed.  Prior to playing a Domi'....a controller once said to me, 'If you want to play an ice controller?  Roll an ice/ice blaster.  Then you get to do damage.'

 

Azrael.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Replacement]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:59 AM, r0y said:

Permadom is not the problem with Dominators:  Too many powers to click is. 

Agree with just about everything in your post, wanted to call attention to this: this is an issue made worse by the pursuit of global recharge.  You can ignore global recharge and just gun for the powers you want, but it's objectively worse for your power level (which for a lot of players, hurts our enjoyment when we don't feel like we're contributing).

 

I don't like seeing unaware players penalized for not knowing there is a hidden "correct" way to build a thing.

 

(caveat: I use "correct" in quotes to indicate the best min/max path.  Everyone is free to build how they want.)

 

@Golden Azrael Your opinion is fine, I'm not actively trying to exclude you.  Your post didn't read like you were saying "I love that there's a magic tipping point where my performance doubles because I know how to get there and all the players who fall a little short of that mark deserve to not even compare.  Snow, uphill, both ways.  Rahh."  That is specifically the only mindset I was calling out upfront as unhelpful. 

 

I made that disclaimer not to piss people off (though boy did I achieve that) -- I made it because if I didn't, this would have immediately turned into a repeat of the Quick Snipe thread, as that was the primary argument against it.

[ABlueThingy]

I would just like to say that whatever changes come to Dom I would like to maintain the "Super mode" button that is Domination.  I actually like the Jekyll/Hyde feel and don't usually build for Permadom because it removes that feeling for me.

 

I think what we need is a grand review of recharge in this game(and +def) along with a review of the control sets as a whole.  Both Controllers and Dominators are in a weird place right now.

[r0y]

I think soloing my Dominators feel more powerful than when I team - unless that team is fairly sad.  I mean, I know how to play a dom (which does require some thought), but it doesn't matter, as the reality of the game is TIME.  When teaming, one only has enough time to activate a couple powers before the team obliterates the mobs.  Dom's often require 4-5 clicks to neutralize and eradicate a mob, but I'm only given enough time to click 2-3 things, if I'm fast and time it well...

 

...at least until we all play leap-frog.  I see you, Mr. Blaster / Ms. Scrapper running ahead.  I know what you're trying to do.  So I'll go to the NEXT, next mob.  Oh, the brute is there... ok, the next-, next-, next mob!  Oh, the Controller is there?  Oy Vey!

[Golden Azrael]

20 hours ago, Replacement said:

Agree with just about everything in your post, wanted to call attention to this: this is an issue made worse by the pursuit of global recharge.  You can ignore global recharge and just gun for the powers you want, but it's objectively worse for your power level (which for a lot of players, hurts our enjoyment when we don't feel like we're contributing).

 

I don't like seeing unaware players penalized for not knowing there is a hidden "correct" way to build a thing.

 

(caveat: I use "correct" in quotes to indicate the best min/max path.  Everyone is free to build how they want.)

 

@Golden Azrael Your opinion is fine, I'm not actively trying to exclude you.  Your post didn't read like you were saying "I love that there's a magic tipping point where my performance doubles because I know how to get there and all the players who fall a little short of that mark deserve to not even compare.  Snow, uphill, both ways.  Rahh."  That is specifically the only mindset I was calling out upfront as unhelpful. 

 

I made that disclaimer not to piss people off (though boy did I achieve that) -- I made it because if I didn't, this would have immediately turned into a repeat of the Quick Snipe thread, as that was the primary argument against it.

(I was never that big a fan of IOs or the arcane maths and science to get there and anything I've gleened has come from very helpful and friendly players...to ascend to the trinity of the Domi God Head.  I was more a fan of pick up and play perma hasten i1-3 than ED'.  Sack cloth and ash when my perma - hasten SO build was cut cruelly down.)

 

If somebody said to me, we can democratise the Domi Button in the same way that Snipe was democratised from behind the IO pay wall?   I'd be open to that discussion.  For a can of 'beans' it does take a while to build up that God Head.

 

Other than that.  I think Domi's are a work of art.

 

As for too many buttons.  I've never heard such tripe in all my life.  Want to control?  Want to Blast?  Want to Melee?  Want to Blap?  Want to range?  Want to in run the gauntlet of blapping with can of beans HPs?  Or somethign inbetween?  An intoxicating array of choice.  It's an art form to play.  If you don't want those buttons or choices?  Simples.  Decide what buttons you do like and remove the rest from your tray. 😄

 

Want to play something with five buttons?  Roll a Sentinel.

 

Azrael.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

11 hours ago, r0y said:

I think soloing my Dominators feel more powerful than when I team - unless that team is fairly sad.  I mean, I know how to play a dom (which does require some thought), but it doesn't matter, as the reality of the game is TIME.  When teaming, one only has enough time to activate a couple powers before the team obliterates the mobs.  Dom's often require 4-5 clicks to neutralize and eradicate a mob, but I'm only given enough time to click 2-3 things, if I'm fast and time it well...

 

...at least until we all play leap-frog.  I see you, Mr. Blaster / Ms. Scrapper running ahead.  I know what you're trying to do.  So I'll go to the NEXT, next mob.  Oh, the brute is there... ok, the next-, next-, next mob!  Oh, the Controller is there?  Oy Vey!

Because Solo you can dictate the tactics on your terms.  Other players can get you killed in a team.  Certain mob munchers like Scrappers and Brutes can eviscerate mobs.  The Domi's art isn't appreciated there perhaps. 

 

You can squash the spider or pull the legs off the spider.  I prefer the latter play style. 

 

Azrael.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

17 hours ago, ABlueThingy said:

I would just like to say that whatever changes come to Dom I would like to maintain the "Super mode" button that is Domination.  I actually like the Jekyll/Hyde feel and don't usually build for Permadom because it removes that feeling for me.

 

I think what we need is a grand review of recharge in this game(and +def) along with a review of the control sets as a whole.  Both Controllers and Dominators are in a weird place right now.

We lost perma-hasten in the transition to i4 Ed?

 

So, if I could have perma hasten and perma domi with 'mere' SOs?  I wouldn't say no.

 

I like the Jekyll and Hyde feel....as you press that Domi button and get up off the canvas....'Let's try that again...'  Adds bite to combat.

 

Azrael.

[MTeague]

16 hours ago, r0y said:

I think soloing my Dominators feel more powerful than when I team - unless that team is fairly sad.  I mean, I know how to play a dom (which does require some thought), but it doesn't matter, as the reality of the game is TIME.  When teaming, one only has enough time to activate a couple powers before the team obliterates the mobs.  Dom's often require 4-5 clicks to neutralize and eradicate a mob, but I'm only given enough time to click 2-3 things, if I'm fast and time it well...

 

...at least until we all play leap-frog.  I see you, Mr. Blaster / Ms. Scrapper running ahead.  I know what you're trying to do.  So I'll go to the NEXT, next mob.  Oh, the brute is there... ok, the next-, next-, next mob!  Oh, the Controller is there?  Oy Vey!

All depends what content the team is doing.  If you're rolling with mid-30's characters in Night Ward, it can get dicey and teams may be very very glad for any buffs and controls they can get.

If you're facerolling door missions in Peregrine with a team full of 50's fully decked out with IO's and firing off incarnate powers like it's going out of style, not so much.

[r0y]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

All depends what content the team is doing.  If you're rolling with mid-30's characters in Night Ward, it can get dicey and teams may be very very glad for any buffs and controls they can get.

If you're facerolling door missions in Peregrine with a team full of 50's fully decked out with IO's and firing off incarnate powers like it's going out of style, not so much.

Usually it's +4 incarnate stuff (iTrials), but I understand your point.  The only time I do non-incarnate stuff is when I need a badge (e.g. Task Force Commander, hunts, etc).

[Zeraphia]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:59 AM, r0y said:

Permadom is not the problem with Dominators:  Too many powers to click is.  They do OK damage (I play a lot of blasters, I can say that), they have really cool "assault" secondaries (though Blasters got some much needed love and changes there with HC), so it makes sense to compare Blasters and Dominators:  both squishies that want to do as much damage as possible.

 

I can do more damage with my blaster in less time and with fewer clicks.  I cannot mez as much or as well.  Darn.  My damage also scales up the more I blast!  Yay!

 

I can mez more mobs with my dominator in less time but with the same amount of clicks (as say, a /plant blaster).  Goodie?  I get mezz protection and awesome mag to my mez powers the more I blast/mez.  Awesome!

 

That's how I see the two.  Wanting to take away permadom will make dominators even more unattractive to many players (blasters).  I remember when I rolled my water blast/plant manipulation(?) blaster:  wow, this is what I would like in a dominator!  I'd give up domination for better damage, fewer clicks, no need for melee range!  Nice!  Plant secondary on a blaster = ghetto dominator.   I think I'll go make a fire/plant.

Oh dear, you haven't heard about how broken Atomic is...

 

That Hold is not properly formatted in Mids, it is a 19-second base aoe Hold with a 90-second recharge. Both are enhanceable. You can literally perma-hold mobs with it, in the way I currently have it slotted, without a single mob in my Beta Decay, I can have the hold up for 36 seconds and have a recharge of 22 seconds. Utterly ridiculous.

[r0y]

1 hour ago, Zeraphia said:

Oh dear, you haven't heard about how broken Atomic is...

 

That Hold is not properly formatted in Mids, it is a 19-second base aoe Hold with a 90-second recharge. Both are enhanceable. You can literally perma-hold mobs with it, in the way I currently have it slotted, without a single mob in my Beta Decay, I can have the hold up for 36 seconds and have a recharge of 22 seconds. Utterly ridiculous.

Yeah, Atomic and Plant are gnarly hold machines.  I did not know about atomic's broken (AoE) hold.  Both plant and atomic have a single-target (ST) hold and an AoE hold; with plant getting an additional decent debuff toggle (of all things, for a blaster?!).

 

I'll have to dust off my ol' Fire/Atomic blaster and check out Radioactive Cloud...

[Golden Azrael]

I like the choking cloud on my Controller.  It's always had that somewhat 'unreliable' intermittent 'hold.'

 

It's enough to take the pressure off in melee though.

 

Azrael.

[Galaxy Brain]

27 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

I like the choking cloud on my Controller.  It's always had that somewhat 'unreliable' intermittent 'hold.'

 

It's enough to take the pressure off in melee though.

 

Azrael.

It is much, much different on /Rad blasters. Its an actually good AoE click-hold.

[Golden Azrael]

16 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

It is much, much different on /Rad blasters. Its an actually good AoE click-hold.

 

...as opposed to a toggle?

 

Interesting.  Never tried it on Blaster.  Only Controller and Defenders.

 

So it works 'better' as 'click' on a blaster than the pulsing end draining monster toggle on a defender/corr/controller?

 

Azrael.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 minute ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

...as opposed to a toggle?

 

Interesting.  Never tried it on Blaster.  Only Controller and Defenders.

 

So it works 'better' as 'click' on a blaster than the pulsing end draining monster toggle on a defender/corr/controller?

 

Azrael.

Correct, since the click is a Mag 3 hold all at once instead of incrementing chances to hold 

[Nether]

I mostly agree with you. 

 

I have always played Controllers and Doms, my buddy plays Brutes and Scrappers. He always liked high recharge sets like /Fire and /Bio. Bio is an interesting set, because while it's obviously beneficial to hit S/L caps, you can slot for pure recharge and the performance difference is minimal, because your healing powers are up so often. Doms are somewhat the same, I have a Grav/Energy dom obviously with permadom, and capped defenses. I've solo'd most TF's with him. But I also have an Ice/Ice/Ice dom, that slotted for pure recharge murder machine. I farm +4/+8 Ice farms with her with ease. The difference between them is really minimal. I notice not being capped on iTrials, but other than that, not really. So I figured I would suggest Doms to my melee buddy, because I know he would love a tricked out Dom. He could even build one to be mostly melee! He got to his upper 20's, and couldn't handle it. I told him "You have to wait till you get permadom to see what a Dom is really made of, it's recharge based, just like you like!" And he replied with "Yeah, but I'm pretty much worthless until then. I can't level a toon all the way to 50 and not even see the potential, at least with brutes I can still have a functioning toon until I get tricked out." 

 

I never thought about it that way, I love the class so much, that I didn't realize he was right, which is your point now. While there is a night and day difference between SO's and sets in other AT's, but Dom is the only AT where if you don't absolutely build it to hit permadom, you're basically useless. You're a shittier controller without buffs/debuffs. 

 

The only argument really against what you are saying is "But min/maxing is a choice". And while that's true, you don't have to min/max your toons, you can build them all sorts of crazy ways if you like.....you don't have much of a choice with Doms. 

 

TBH, and off point, I would like to see hasten either be inherent or done away with entirely as well. 

[Golden Azrael]

7 hours ago, Nether said:

I mostly agree with you. 

 

I have always played Controllers and Doms, my buddy plays Brutes and Scrappers. He always liked high recharge sets like /Fire and /Bio. Bio is an interesting set, because while it's obviously beneficial to hit S/L caps, you can slot for pure recharge and the performance difference is minimal, because your healing powers are up so often. Doms are somewhat the same, I have a Grav/Energy dom obviously with permadom, and capped defenses. I've solo'd most TF's with him. But I also have an Ice/Ice/Ice dom, that slotted for pure recharge murder machine. I farm +4/+8 Ice farms with her with ease. The difference between them is really minimal. I notice not being capped on iTrials, but other than that, not really. So I figured I would suggest Doms to my melee buddy, because I know he would love a tricked out Dom. He could even build one to be mostly melee! He got to his upper 20's, and couldn't handle it. I told him "You have to wait till you get permadom to see what a Dom is really made of, it's recharge based, just like you like!" And he replied with "Yeah, but I'm pretty much worthless until then. I can't level a toon all the way to 50 and not even see the potential, at least with brutes I can still have a functioning toon until I get tricked out." 

 

I never thought about it that way, I love the class so much, that I didn't realize he was right, which is your point now. While there is a night and day difference between SO's and sets in other AT's, but Dom is the only AT where if you don't absolutely build it to hit permadom, you're basically useless. You're a shittier controller without buffs/debuffs. 

 

The only argument really against what you are saying is "But min/maxing is a choice". And while that's true, you don't have to min/max your toons, you can build them all sorts of crazy ways if you like.....you don't have much of a choice with Doms. 

 

TBH, and off point, I would like to see hasten either be inherent or done away with entirely as well. 

That's a point of view.  I can see what you're saying but I don't share it.

 

I, similarly, had a friend who couldn't get to L32 (when Domi's start to arrive...or 'arrive.')  And until then it can be hard.  You're either God or a can of beans getting slapped around, having your mask taken off and you being dumped in the river with your cape in tatters.

 

That said, it can depend on the challenge you set yourself upto L32.  It's relative to...

 

Only in defeat can the Domi taste the sweet victory.  It's the same with all heroes.

 

Brutes and Scrappers have it easy.  There's little to fear unless they amp up the settings.

 

SOs vs IO perma caps.  Night and Day arguments.

 

I judge the game on SOs.  Tricked out IO builds is a nice place to get to. 

 

There is alot to Master with Domi.  It's basically control to melee.  Master that and you're be rewarded.  You can stay at range or go melee where the risk is greater.

 

It's a very thoughtful and artful AT to master.

 

Making it 'I win' like Brutes, Scrappers or Sentinels where you have pretty much no fear of defeat and where being reckless no consequences of note would be a mistake.

 

Contrary.  With Dominators you have the best choice in the game.  It's my favourite AT for that very reason.  But wrong choices from the many available will get you killed.

 

It depends on what setting you play, what buttons you press and what combat choices you make. 

 

I saw someone used to playing Sentinels run right into a mob with their 'tricked out' blaster and wonder why they died so quickly.  And concluded very quickly that blasters were not very good.

 

What do you say to that?  What can you say?

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

Also, Dominators can be very intoxicating with their level of control with glimses of that power on the way up to L32 and finally a L50+ Perma cap build.

 

Elec/Elec domi may seem much a do about nothing.  But the blaster in question made that comment from the luxury of being a higher damage AT and, noteworthy, just before he died. 🙂

 

And a Fire/Stone Domi is quite a damaging beast.  But fire, eh?

 

My most rewarding journeys in the game have been?

 

Elec/Elec on live.  Elec/elec on HC.

Stone/Stone on live.

 

Dominators both.

 

It's the journey.  And the road of the dominator is a richly rewarding one.

 

But like many truth...it depends greatly on our point of view.

 

Azrael.

[kenlon]

13 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

You're either God or a can of beans getting slapped around, having your mask taken off and you being dumped in the river with your cape in tatters.

A man comes upon another man who is repeatedly hitting his thumb with a hammer.  When asked why he’s beating his thumb to a pulp, the man with the hammer replies, “Because it feels so good when I stop!”