Copyrighted Generics Issues

[Jaegernault]

copyright is a copy, last time I checked we cant upload our own costume meshes, we work with what we have, we assemble parts like a jigsaw, never knowing the final picture we will get. its creativity at its core inspired by what we love. 

[Ruin Mage]

I must reiterate; Live went by the same rules that HC is using. They may be coming down as hard or harder than Live devs did.

Getting generic'd means you just weren't original or creative enough.

[Golden Azrael]

It's simple.  Put a bit of thought into your character.

 

As for over zealous corporations.  Ironic given that Marvel and DC own the name and the 'character' of Captain Marvel and 'Shazam' between them.  Further irony when what is Thanos other than a thinly veiled Dark Zeid clone.

 

But yes, if you call something Superman and copy his costume to the sewing marks then, yes.  They could complain.  That said, Mickey Mouse and Superman should have been made public domain ages ago.

 

If companies have copyright in perpetuity then the creative pool doesn't get refreshed..  But it's never enough for corporations, they want to own the entire monopoly board.  Just take inspiration from what is around you and if it's too similar to something else you have seen, change it.  Be honest with yourself.  It is inspiration (allowed) or just out right copying.  Homage is fine IF it consults inspiratino.  Eg.  A superman costume that is yellow and purple with ginger haired guy and goggles with an 'a' symbol is a step closer to inspiration/homage than a dark haired guy, red/blue costume with an 'S' on it.

 

There are many characters that have lapsed into the public domain so if you want to create a derived character?  Start from there?  eg.  'The Bat.'  A 'bat man' character who 'can' use guns. 😄

 

And the Digital Millenium copyright act didn't help either.

 

Eg.  NC Soft should have released a personal server edition of CoH so we could still run the game instead of shutting it down.  I don't care about the EULA.  It's about balance, fairness.  And the law is an ass sometimes...that weighs in favour of corporations.  So my hats off to whoever made the death star plans available for the rebel alliance.

 

A simple turn key, micro server (for me and a few buddies) server is all I ever wanted.

 

Do we have that option yet?  Be nice if HC helped in that regard.  Just in case a tank runs the devs over.

 

Azrael.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[AerialAssault]

 

Read through the announcement for your answers.

 

Don't expect the Homecoming team to budge on this any time soon.

[ZacKing]

11 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Server of a game that already went through a copyright lawsuit and is trying to become legit again is *very* different.

LMAO!  That was what?  15 years ago if not more?

7 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Kids are not games trying to become legiitmate that already have a history of being looked at and sued by the comic industry.

What happened to that lawsuit?  It went nowhere.

[Phoosy]

You must not have worked for a project that has legions of people looking to rules lawyer and nitpick their way into being right, have you? The rules on this are pretty vague for a reason but anyone taking a moment to think on it will realize how deliberate you have to be to make a character that gets generic'd. The devs and GMs have better things to do with their time than making a list to satisfy the small handful of people who purposefully skirt the line to find a holy grail of 'being' Batman without getting hit with the bat.

 

Be original, it's not hard.

[altaholic]

6 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Someone else owns the legal rights to the character you're copying and the homecoming team does not.

It cant be a copy if it isn't exactly like it can it? If there are variations that make it not 100%, because it resembles closely another entity technically doesn't make it a copy, its an homage. There are parts in the game that are there yes, but overall, you have to improvise. So that "s" on superman's chest is only that -  an "s". So where's the infringement?  its your opinion.

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I kinda see the OP's pov a tiny bit. I agree with names. However with costumes, so many heroes have so many costume variations its virtually impossible to not recreate a costume some other trademarked char wore at some point. Also not everyone is super creative.

[ShardWarrior]

Folks, like it or not this is a decision that rests solely on the shoulders of the Homecoming team.  They set the rules - regardless of whether we agree or disagree with them - and we have to abide by them. 

 

With that said, people really need to stop trying to tell others what is or is not "creative" enough.

[Greycat]

Right at the top of the forums. Code of conduct.

 

Use of copyrighted characters and content without permission is not permitted when creating characters or Architect content. This includes characters and stories from intellectual property belonging to any IP that is not City of Heroes.

 

The infringing people were reported. The GMs agreed it was infringing. You are in the wrong. Period. This argument was tiresome on live, it's tiresome here. Here, however, you do have choices:

 

1. Find a server that doesn't care and play there.

2. Get the code. Be sure to pay NCSoft a license. Talk to Marvel. Pay them for a license for similar characters. Do the same with DC, Dark Horse, ... who's the one that does Dragonball, Toyama or something? Them, etc. You will now have paid out a bunch of money, but have a license to use the characters.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Greycat

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Be sure to pay NCSoft a license. Talk to Marvel. Pay them for a license for similar characters. Do the same with DC, Dark Horse, ... who's the one that does Dragonball, Toyama or something? Them, etc. You will now have paid out a bunch of money, but have a license to use the characters.

To my knowledge, Homecoming is not paying for any licensing.  To suggest others do this is silly.

[ZacKing]

5 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Right at the top of the forums. Code of conduct.

 

Use of copyrighted characters and content without permission is not permitted when creating characters or Architect content. This includes characters and stories from intellectual property belonging to any IP that is not City of Heroes.

 

The infringing people were reported. The GMs agreed it was infringing. You are in the wrong. Period. This argument was tiresome on live, it's tiresome here. Here, however, you do have choices:

 

1. Find a server that doesn't care and play there.

2. Get the code. Be sure to pay NCSoft a license. Talk to Marvel. Pay them for a license for similar characters. Do the same with DC, Dark Horse, ... who's the one that does Dragonball, Toyama or something? Them, etc. You will now have paid out a bunch of money, but have a license to use the characters.

Yeah we can all read man.  No ones suggesting that the rule get lifted. 

[Ruin Mage]

Just as this thread and the response of "Don't tell others what is/isn't creative enough." is silly.

Creativity is creating your own character.
What isn't creative? Creating a 1:1 replica of your favorite character from another source and then whining when it gets generic'd - see this thread.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Shadeknight

[Greycat]

9 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

LMAO!  That was what?  15 years ago if not more?

What happened to that lawsuit?  It went nowhere.

So what if it was 15 years ago?

 

Know what didn't happen because of it? We *didn't get a license to use copyrighted characters* on live. Know why the lawsuit was settled? In part because *they were already generic'ing characters* to protect others copyrights and had that stated plainly in their code of conduct. (And in part because Marvel used its own employees to create examples of copyright infringement for the suit, which rather irked the judge, as I read it.) And there was no *further* lawsuit in part because they CONTINUED to actively generic copyrights (I lost count of how many former-gokus I saw with generichero#### on them.)

 

Sort of like here. Hmm. I wonder if there's a reason for that....

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Just as this thread and the response of "Don't tell others what is/isn't creative enough." is silly.

Creativity is subjective to the person. 

 

4 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Creating a 1:1 replica of your favorite character from another source and then whining when it gets generic'd - see this thread.

More often than not, you cannot create a 1:1 replica as most have unique costume pieces or logos that do not exist in the game.  You can create somewhat similar, not a 100% match. 

[Greycat]

2 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Yeah we can all read man.  No ones suggesting that the rule get lifted. 

... and yet people are complaining because they got generic'd for making copyrighted or "close enough" characters. So if they don't want it lifted, then they don't want it applying to them, just everyone else.

 

The rule's there. Follow it, or make a good enough case to the team why it shouldn't be.

 

7 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

To my knowledge, Homecoming is not paying for any licensing.  To suggest others do this is silly.

If they want to make copyrighted characters without getting generic'd, it's a path they can take. I never stated Homecoming was. And they won't need to, because they're following the same policy that was on live.

[ShardWarrior]

3 minutes ago, Greycat said:

So what if it was 15 years ago?

 

Know what didn't happen because of it? We *didn't get a license to use copyrighted characters* on live. Know why the lawsuit was settled? In part because *they were already generic'ing characters* to protect others copyrights and had that stated plainly in their code of conduct. (And in part because Marvel used its own employees to create examples of copyright infringement for the suit, which rather irked the judge, as I read it.) And there was no *further* lawsuit in part because they CONTINUED to actively generic copyrights (I lost count of how many former-gokus I saw with generichero#### on them.)

 

Sort of like here. Hmm. I wonder if there's a reason for that....

The lawsuit keeps getting brought up in threads like this and it is important to remember the context of the situation.  Marvel was in far, far, far worse financial shape back then and were looking at squeezing money from anyone they could.  The game was also for-profit back then.  That is not the case now.

[Greycat]

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

The lawsuit keeps getting brought up in threads like this and it is important to remember the context of the situation.  Marvel was in far, far, far worse financial shape back then and were looking at squeezing money from anyone they could.  The game was also for-profit back then.  That is not the case now.

The flip side of that is *Marvel is part of Disney, who is known for being VERY aggressive in copyright protection.*

 

Do *you* want to deal with Disney lawyers so someone can play as Iron Man? Especially (a) with the money Disney can put behind a suit and (b) the money the movies - and by spillover the comics and other content - have made for them recently... which is a HUGE incentive to go after people copying?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Greycat

[Ruin Mage]

3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Creativity is subjective to the person. 

By the rules that HC has set down, it's objectively lacking creativity to try and create a 1:1 replica of Superman - and so forth.

 

 

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

More often than not, you cannot create a 1:1 replica as most have unique costume pieces or logos that do not exist in the game.  You can create somewhat similar, not a 100% match. 

Depends on the character in question. You can get 99% close if not 100% to, for example, most MCU outfits.

[altaholic]

3 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

By the rules that HC has set down, it's objectively lacking creativity to try and create a 1:1 replica of Superman - and so forth.

 

 

Depends on the character in question. You can get 99% close if not 100% to, for example, most MCU outfits.

99% is now 100%? now THATS creative!

[SeraphimKensai]

The only thing I've ever had generic'd was on live which was my personal SG Pornstars Are Heroes Too, which was built around supporting advocacy for sex workers' rights.

 

Someone reported it apparently and it was generic'd even though it didn't expressly break any written rule at the time.

 

I suppose there are groups out there that could debate ethics over the name, but it was no where near something like someone explicitly breaking copyright and infringing on someone's intellectual property such as the lvl 13 claws/regen scrapper I reported back in i1 named W0lverine wearing yellow and blue spandex.

 

One could theoretically argue about Parody protections against copyright law I suppose.

 

The worst character though I ever saw was a water blaster named Money Shot with white colored water blasts. Although not infringing on an IP, it was in extreme poor taste and I believe was generic'd or deleted.

[ShardWarrior]

10 minutes ago, Greycat said:

The flip side of that is *Marvel is part of Disney, who is known for being VERY aggressive in copyright protection.*

Yes, they are as they should be in protecting their property.  However, it is important to understand Disney does not go after everyone.  They target those who are trying to make a profit without a license/permission or are using their property in a way that went against Walt Disney's express wishes. 

 

Trust me, I understand it is a risk that Disney might issue a C&D.  However, I think the likelihood of this happening are not even slim to none and chances are greater the C&D will come from NCSoft before anyone like Disney.  Trying to infer that a Disney suit is somehow imminent because someone made a Hulk character is fear mongering. 

 

Again, I have no issue with the rules that Homecoming has set forth.  I will be even more clear that if someone is naming their character Superman or Batman or Captain America, then yes they should get it changed. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[AerialAssault]

Talk of what is or is not creative aside, I'd rather not take the Dev's time away to nanny and handhold people for something that is obvious to the rest of us.

 

If you feel as if you have been unfairly generic'd, petition a GM about it. 

 

[ShardWarrior]

7 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Depends on the character in question. You can get 99% close if not 100% to, for example, most MCU outfits.

99% is not a 1:1 match, is it?  😉

[Greycat]

2 minutes ago, altaholic said:

99% is now 100%? now THATS creative!

And *this* is why they don't put down a list of guidelines versus "use common sense." "But mine was only 98.5%! I was called Super-man, notice the dash, and used a different belt!"