How do the primaries rank in terms of survivability?

[Excelsio]

Back in the 'Before Times', I had a Mind/Fire perma-dom that was one of my favorite characters.  He was a god.  He might have been able to sub for Hamidon, had Hamidon been required to stay at home due to social isolation constraints.  His power was just sick, and was a perversion of gameplay mechanics.

 

The stunts that he was able to pull off was due to the fact that perma domination Mind is able to shut down both multiple AVs and multiple large groups alike.  He didn't have the best DPS, but victory was achieved through out-surviving opponents -- I just waited for them to die of either old age or boredom.  I didn't even build him for defense, I just leveraged all of the double mag controls in Mind.

 

Well, it's been a long time, and my memory of both game mechanics and how each of the Dominator primaries work has faded.  So, I'd like to ask the community:

 

How do each of the Dominator primaries rank in terms of providing surivivablity?  Assuming:

1. Perma-domination
2. Either while soloing -or- while on extraordinarily well coordinated team (i.e., one obeying commands from you).
3. When paired with the most synergistic secondary for that primary.
4. No consideration is given to DPS or speed.
5. The best IO layout for that primary.
6. Survivability for a broad range of types of encounters in the game, and not just contrived ones that are designed for the specific primary/secondary combo.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Edit:

From another forum post:

Here is how I would rank the primaries, again in terms of pure survivability.  Please take this with more than a few grains of salt:

 

1.        Mind

2.        A close ranking amongst:  Earth, Electric, Dark, Plant

3.        Fire

4.        Gravity

9001.  Ice

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Excelsio

[VV]

Quick question, are we talking about the "kill before being killed" style of survival or the "read a book wait for them to die of boredom" style of survival?

 

Also, the secondary can make a difference in choice of the primary. For example, does your secondary have lots of KD/KB? If so, you could go with a less hard-control/more-damage primary.

 

I have played most of the primaries now, and I think the main point is, they are all survivable as heck.

 

(PS: I bet the most popular answer will be Plant/)

 

 

[Bastille Boy]

28 minutes ago, Excelsio said:

Either while soloing -or- while on extraordinarily well coordinated team (i.e., one obeying commands from you).

A team can be well coordinated without anybody taking the role of commander.

[Excelsio]

40 minutes ago, VV said:

Quick question, are we talking about the "kill before being killed" style of survival or the "read a book wait for them to die of boredom" style of survival?

 

Also, the secondary can make a difference in choice of the primary. For example, does your secondary have lots of KD/KB? If so, you could go with a less hard-control/more-damage primary.

 

I have played most of the primaries now, and I think the main point is, they are all survivable as heck.

 

(PS: I bet the most popular answer will be Plant/)

 

 

To answer your question:  the 'glass canon' style of gameplay can work in many use-cases, but is limited to very controlled circumstances. 

 

Plant is indeed a very powerful primary, and it might rank #2 after Mind.  Why I would rank Plant after Mind:

1. Most of the power of Plant comes from Seeds of Confusion.  So, any group that resists Seeds, like Nemesis, is going to heavily neuter Plant's effectiveness.
2. Plant lacks a way to handle multiple large groups of enemies that are positioned closed to each other, where Seeds is able to hit one group but not adjacent groups.  Mind is able to put multiple groups to sleep for a long time, all without aggro, through using Mass Hypnosis.
3. Plant lacks a way to handle multiple AVs simultaneously.  Mind can do that using Mesmerize.

It's for these reasons that Mind is able to solo Task Forces.  Back in the day, there were videos of people soloing task forces with Mind, without Incarnate powers. 

 

I don't know how much the game has changed, and I'm not familiar with some of the 'newer' primaries like Dark.

 

Here is how I would rank the primaries, again in terms of pure survivability.  Please take this with more than a few grains of salt:

 

1.        Mind

2.        A close ranking amongst:  Earth, Electric, Dark, Plant

3.        Fire

4.        Gravity

9001.  Ice

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Excelsio

[Excelsio]

3 minutes ago, ejworthing said:

A team can be well coordinated without anybody taking the role of commander.

That is true!

[Phalanx480bc]

5 hours ago, Excelsio said:

1. Most of the power of Plant comes from Seeds of Confusion.  So, any group that resists Seeds, like Nemesis, is going to heavily neuter Plant's effectiveness.

 

Wouldn't that also apply in reverse to Psi-resistant enemies?

 

5 hours ago, Excelsio said:

1. Plant lacks a way to handle multiple large groups of enemies that are positioned closed to each other, where Seeds is able to hit one group but not adjacent groups.  Mind is able to put multiple groups to sleep for a long time, all without aggro, through using Mass Hypnosis.

 

Spore Burst is almost identical to Mass Hypnosis. It has slightly less range but casts faster.  Of the two, I'd take the speed.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Phalanx480bc

[Hjarki]

5 hours ago, Excelsio said:

I didn't even build him for defense, I just leveraged all of the double mag controls in Mind.

I tend not to approach Dominators (or Controllers) in this fashion because this can lead to a lot of problems. In my mind, it's far better to layer your controls with actual defenses so you can manage all the situations where the Controls can fail (target caps, 5% miss chance, etc.). So my personal favorites:

• Electric Control. This is the improved version of Mind Control. It's got the best Sleep in the game with Static Field. It's also got the lowest recharge AE Confuse power with Synaptic Overload. However, unlike Mind, it also has an AE Immobilize. Lastly, it can end drain anything, so if you want to go that route you really only need to maintain control briefly.
• Fire Control. This is the superior version of Earth Control. Pretty much every power I bother to take in Earth Control has a better version in Fire Control (faster activating, does damage, etc.), plus Hot Feet can add a lot of damage and Smoke can be situationally useful.
• Dark Control. This is a bit of an oddball. It has a fairly conventional ST Hold, AE Immobilize, AE Disorient setup that most sets do. However, it applies -hit to everything to shore up weak defenses and it does massive amounts of pet damage. It also has a single target no-aggro Confuse if you want to go that route.

Gravity Control occupies a mid-way position in my mind. Wormhole is so incredibly potent that it can justify taking an otherwise mediocre set. A huge part of the game is condensing spawns, and Wormhole is one of the best powers around for doing precisely that.

 

The sets I don't much like:

• Earth Control. As stated above, there are two kinds of powers in Earth. The kind that Fire does better and the kind that aren't really all that great.
• Ice Control. I want to like Arctic Air, but it just has too much packed onto it. If it was just PBAoE Confuse aura, then it might be worthwhile. Once you start adding in Fear and -recharge, it negates much of the value of Confuse. The rest of the set is largely just standard controls you can get better versions of elsewhere.
• Mind Control. As noted above, I think Electric just does what Mind does better while bringing key components that Mind doesn't.
• Plant Control. Plant's main selling point is that it does more AE damage than most Control sets. However, it doesn't really match Fire for this purpose - and even Fire just barely justifies its AE damage compared to Dominator secondaries. Seeds of Confusion is nice, but the fact that it causes aggro can create difficulties for many of the edge cases where you actually want a Confuse.

 

 

[VV]

5 hours ago, Excelsio said:

1.        Mind

2.        A close ranking amongst:  Earth, Electric, Dark, Plant

3.        Fire

4.        Gravity

9001.  Ice

 

So, basically, you weren't actually asking for help, you were setting yourself up to showcase how smart you are. You just wanted to gloat about how awesome your Mind/ is. Gotcha. As the great Skywalker once said, amazing, everything you just said is wrong.

 

5 hours ago, Excelsio said:

To answer your question:

LMAO you totally did not. I was legitimately asking what YOU wanted, in order to answer your supposed question. You completely misread my entire post. Go play another game, please. We don't need your kind here.

Edited April 30, 2020 by VV

[serxiom]

10 hours ago, Excelsio said:

Here is how I would rank the primaries, again in terms of pure survivability.  Please take this with more than a few grains of salt:

 

1.        Mind

2.        A close ranking amongst:  Earth, Electric, Dark, Plant

3.        Fire

4.        Gravity

9001.  Ice

 

The "Good old days" are gone my friend. Mind doms are not LRSF superstars and team wise people want Earth/ Ice/ Fire/ or Plant/ on their teams. Today everything is speed run and kill fast... and Mind doesnt bring great dps compared to the rest. 

 

Mind got better overall control than the rest but fails on dps badly. Anything Fire/ or Plant/ will kill NPCs faster than Mind. Mind leans on secondary powerset to fill dps hole. Thats why Mind/Fire or Mind/Energy are most common combos. Mind requires a high dps secondary to catch up with the rest. Try to play a Mind/Dark/Rad etc... You will be struggling killing mobs. 

 

Also not agree with your opinion about Ice. This set got great tools backing up your survavibility maybe less than the other power sets but shines on teams. Ice slick is just too good by itself  shutting down complete NPCs groups and if you add Glacier on the top... boom! Everyone loves a Ice Dominator in their teams. 

 

Even Dark is better than Mind. 1 targeted AoE Hold 1 AoE Stun 1 Cone Fear + Inmobs and a 3 Pets. You have it all... crowd control, dps, damage mitigation. No mass confuse... well you cant have it all but is not missing considering all the tools you have in this set.

 

I think everyone got a favorite primary but if we go to the field is not about what you like the most is about what is more effective in terms of control+dps+mitigation etc. I do have Plant/ Mind/ Ice/ Dark/ Elec/ and after playing a lot with all my doms my Plant/MA is way ahead of the rest. He can stomp in 4x8 faster than any of my other doms. Is too good that is boring sometimes.

 

However you survavility in game today is about reaching defense softcap + permadom.  In an uncontrolled game enviroment, lets say a Tank pullng 3 groups or a team partner aggroing by mistake 1/2 groups, the only thing will keep you standing is your softcap defense.  When teaming i can tell which dominator is softcapped and which not. Generally not softcapped are with the team mates on the back in range close to the healer. The softcapped Doms doesnt wait for the tank or the Brute.... they jump in middle of the NPC´s and shutt everything off.

 

Primary set is somekind of relevant for your survavility but softcap defense is key in all senses running TFs Teaming Trials etc.

 

[Coyote]

Mind still works well for soloing, as serxiom said, backed up with a good damage secondary (although I'd add Savage and Earth to those in a more AoE oriented difficulty setting). But on a team you don't need much lockdown, just a bit of controlling at the beginning of the fight, and then it's damage time. I agree that Plant is the best at this, not because it's control level is so much better, but because it spends little time controlling and so allows you to get to face-kicking (for Plant/MA), face-smashing (Plant/Earth), or face-ripping (Plant/Savage) sooner.

[The_Cheeseman]

Mind is still the best, it’s just more subtle and strategic in its application, so it’s not as easily recognized as such by those who haven’t played it sufficiently. But that’s fine, let them play their inferior sets while we dominate the world and laugh.

[Vinceq99]

This game is city of AOE not city of snooze single target dmg. Mind is an old set and just doesn't compare to the other primaries on a dominator. When everyone is an incarnate level shifted with IOs mind doesn't offer anything more than what another primary can do when all you want to do is delete a spawn with your powers.

You have blasters with the mentality of kill or be killed with nukes up every other spawn. You have scrapper and brutes able to decimate in melee, heck even tankers got a damage buff. Basically this game has gotten so much power creep that everyone wants to just aoe spawns instantly so putting a spawn to sleep in order for you to single target something down safely is something you'll never ever see teams following.

 

So the best Dominators who can one shot cc a group to deny their alpha strike are the ones you want to play and match it with the secondaries that do the most damage.

 

Plant , Dark, Earth all have very fast recharging and fast acting abilities to shut down a spawn so you can go about destroying them. 

 

Fire has bonfire which is just broken by adding a simple IO to it. 

 

Electric takes a multi prong approach with a pulsing sleep, chaining confuse and end drain. In essence elec will shut down a group in time but won't be so successful with completely denying attacks until some time passes.

 

Gravity has wormhole but that takes eons to activate at 3 seconds or so. A blaster would have nuked that spawn dead before you even finished the ability. Gravity is only good as a controller because of the impact mechanic but as a dominator you have your assault secondaries that just make that advantage a wash. 

 

Ice has no benefit in being a dominator over a controller. Arctic air after the proc rules are a pale comparison to the beast that it was when the purple proc used to go off more frequently thereby securing it's role as a top controller. Now it's in the bottom barrel like mind control. 

 

Mind is a shadow of it's former self. Dark is the new kid in school who is cooler, edgier and better in control and damage. This set I wouldn't ever touch until control set gets their aoe holds unprunned .

 

I just don't get the appeal of mind or ice when you have the big bad 3 of plant Dark and fire as a choice . 

[Coyote]

2 hours ago, Vinceq99 said:

This game is city of AOE not city of snooze single target dmg. Mind is an old set and just doesn't compare to the other primaries on a dominator. When everyone is an incarnate level shifted with IOs mind doesn't offer anything more than what another primary can do when all you want to do is delete a spawn with your powers.

You have blasters with the mentality of kill or be killed with nukes up every other spawn. You have scrapper and brutes able to decimate in melee, heck even tankers got a damage buff. Basically this game has gotten so much power creep that everyone wants to just aoe spawns instantly so putting a spawn to sleep in order for you to single target something down safely is something you'll never ever see teams following.

 

Ugh.

 

2 hours ago, Vinceq99 said:

Gravity has wormhole but that takes eons to activate at 3 seconds or so.

 

Seriously, ugh.

 

Not that there's anything directly wrong with the post... just that in the part of the game where THREE SECONDS is too long to wait for a power to activate, even one that actually groups mobs together for killing.... that part of the game doesn't care about control. Not even Fire's (3.3 second cast time) Bonfire, which elsewhere in the post is said to be good. Heh.

 

But, seriously. There are teams who run with maxed out Incarnates, and against content that's not very challenging (though there are few missions where anything can be challenging to a full Incarnate team). And they run with an 8 man team instead of 3-4 to try to create a challenge. In these teams, Mind absolutely sucks. But then, so does every other Control primary. It's nice to shut down a spawn with Stalagmites... or you could wait the 2 seconds to cast it so that some melee character eats the alpha strike without blinking, and just go to using the AoEs from the secondary, like you would have after opening with Stalagmites. Yes, Mind doesn't even have that option (a good opener), but does it really matter?

 

In City of AoEs, Dominator primaries don't matter. Nor do Controllers, for that matter. They only really matter when soloing, or when on 2-3 man teams, or at lower levels. So, arguing that Mind is weaker than Dark because it's MORE useless on Incarnate teams doesn't make sense to me. Now, arguing that Dark > Mind during the leveling up process, or on lower level teams, or on a 3-man team doing a Patron arc at level 42, that argument would matter.

 

But in Incarnate World, Control primaries don't matter... so arguing that Mind is a bad Control primary by using the scenario where control is, in general, useless.... is to completely miss the point of comparing the defensive abilities of control primaries. Of course they don't matter at 50+4, so we really care about how they do at about 12-50.

[mbre2006]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:11 PM, Excelsio said:

9001.  Ice

Thread is trash. 

[Coyote]

16 minutes ago, mbre2006 said:

On 4/29/2020 at 2:11 PM, Excelsio said:

9001.  Ice

Thread is trash. 

 

Oh, that was cold. You really iced him. I hope he doesn't get frostbite while he's chilling and thinking about how to best serve a dish called revenge. Of course, it's possible that he's totally cool, and stays frosty.

Thank you, I'm here all weekend

(yes, that was a public service warning 😛 )

[Tater Todd]

I do agree that Ice Control is the weakest even after all of its direct and indirect buffs.  I was going to give my opinionated Tier list but ironically this thread is not a good place to post something like that no?

[Coyote]

Hehe, it's already gone off the rails. Go ahead, how much more harm can you do? I think the insurance company has already agreed that it's an unrecoverable loss, and will be covering for the cost of a new one.

[Phalanx480bc]

On 5/3/2020 at 10:04 AM, Coyote said:

Hehe, it's already gone off the rails. Go ahead, how much more harm can you do? I think the insurance company has already agreed that it's an unrecoverable loss, and will be covering for the cost of a new one.

I agree.  I'd like to see Tater's list.  He's earned my respect from his posts so I'm interested in his take.

[Hjarki]

On 5/2/2020 at 8:41 PM, Coyote said:

In City of AoEs, Dominator primaries don't matter. Nor do Controllers, for that matter. They only really matter when soloing, or when on 2-3 man teams, or at lower levels. So, arguing that Mind is weaker than Dark because it's MORE useless on Incarnate teams doesn't make sense to me. Now, arguing that Dark > Mind during the leveling up process, or on lower level teams, or on a 3-man team doing a Patron arc at level 42, that argument would matter.

The issue I have here is that 'City of AoEs' isn't some sort of endgame for many builds, but starts early on in the leveling process. By the teens/20s, you've hit the point where a significant number of melee builds and even some Blaster builds are focused on this playstyle. Then you need to consider that you're likely to find teammates who are exemplared down and designed to function in that environment.

 

In contrast, the 'City of Statues' model arises much, much later. Perma-Dom really requires set bonuses you're not going to see until long after you have */Fire Brutes running around trying to AE everything. Likewise, you simply don't have the recharge necessary for every-spawn hard controls until you're at the point where you see a lot of endgame-style builds.

 

Even then, I'd argue that the sort of control-centric game you prefer doesn't favor what you're arguing for. If you're in a leveling up process, Dark is definitely better than Mind. Dark's -hit is far more useful than Mind's ability to - once every half dozen spawns - throw a lockdown ability that doesn't affect bosses (because you don't have perma-Dom yet) and doesn't last long enough (since you're in a group that isn't built for mass AE). Likewise, if you want to play a control-centric game leveling up, it's hard to imagine a better ability than Static Field with its low recharge and self-stacking.

 

Indeed, talking about a Dominator in most of the situations you're outlining doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because Dominators tend to be awful in them. Dominator is a very late-developing AT that really demands its epic pools and set bonuses before it starts to really 'work'.

 

[MTeague]

Plant / Psi is *Very* nice in terms of soloing, and levelling, and teaming, and survivability. 

 

Seeds of Confusion is just amazing. and almost does it all, all right there.  The low cooldown combined with the "free hits AND we help you kill each other" in the cone confuse is just insane.  And sure it can cost you a few minor XP around the edges. But you'll kill so much more iwth it, so much faster, you're still coming out ahead by leaps and bounds.  And to the main point of the thread, anything you confuse is no longer attacking you.

 

on the Plant side of things

• Seeds of Confuse, (as described)
• solid permanent pet (Fly Trap) that backs you up and applies it's own lesser controls in Immob's.
• excellent Temporary Pet (Carrion Creepers) that a) looks amazing, b) provides quite a bit of extra damage and control (in knockdowns and immobs), and c) can split what enemies spend their time attacking. ( = less attacks on you = more survival)
• Tree of Life.  Admittedly, not everyone will take this and I fully expect several posters to say that I am bad and should feel bad for taking it.  but  one things Dom's lack is self-heals.  Tree of Life gives you a nice solid stationary AE regen boost, not unlike Triage Beacon in Traps.  Slotted well, the Regen boost is *quite* large.  I have it Six Slotted (yes yes, I know) with Preventative Medicine, which gets me some smashing/lethal resist, the absorb proc, and +8.75% recharge.  and I can easily keep TWO trees up if I wish it.   And redside, which I play, there's never any guarantee that any teammate will have any means to do any group-heals effect.   MM's have always been happy if I toss down a Tree to help keep their pets going as I was levelling. 

on the Psi side of things

• Drain Psyche.  In addition to the very tasty -regen debuff, you can Seeds of Confusion, hop right into the middle of a group, Drain Psyche and the Psychic Shockwave.  With ~ 4-5 stacks of Drain Psyche, your health bar fills up VERY quickly.  With Drain Psyche AND Tree of Life going, you're practicallly running Instant Healing. 
• Psychic Shockwave.   in addition to being a nice PBAE to tag all your confused targets (to make sure you get exp for all of them, it's one of your many many ways to apply -Recharge debuffs to a foe. And on top of that, comes iwth a very strong stun that is amplified by Domination.  It's not guaranteed to stun every target, true.  But it keeps a lot of things from hurting you as you mow them down, and Roots will keep them from wondering much.  And heck, your Fly Trap will generally root them FOR you if you're feeling especially lazy.
• TK Thrust.   I know. I know. I went there.  KnockBACK.   I'm a baddy.  But early in, before your build matures, this is a great soft control for "I'm not dealing with you yet" as you send someone far.  And it saved me a few times in low-level soloing, by sending some adds off the edge of a building / over a catwalk / down into some caves.  It's also smashing damage which is nice for those pesky psi-resistant robots.  Later on, as your build does mature, it's easy enough to either respec out of OR plop in a KB-to-KD IO, whichever you prefer. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by MTeague

[Coyote]

9 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Even then, I'd argue that the sort of control-centric game you prefer doesn't favor what you're arguing for. If you're in a leveling up process, Dark is definitely better than Mind. Dark's -hit is far more useful than Mind's ability to - once every half dozen spawns - throw a lockdown ability that doesn't affect bosses (because you don't have perma-Dom yet) and doesn't last long enough (since you're in a group that isn't built for mass AE). Likewise, if you want to play a control-centric game leveling up, it's hard to imagine a better ability than Static Field with its low recharge and self-stacking.

 

Indeed, talking about a Dominator in most of the situations you're outlining doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because Dominators tend to be awful in them. Dominator is a very late-developing AT that really demands its epic pools and set bonuses before it starts to really 'work'.

 

Well, actually, I generally agree that Mind is clearly worse than Dark, during the leveling process. I just didn't like using Incarnate-level play as the reason why it's weak.

 

I'm quite happy to see a Dominator at level 22 throw a non-Dominate Stun and Immobilize into the spawn. Sure, they become powerhouses later, but AoE controls are useful at lower levels even at Mag 3. And while some characters can manage AoE damage well reasonably early, there are very few characters who are leveling up before the 40s who are both high AoE and tough enough to just solo a spawn by booming it with damage. Control (and debuffs like Dark's) are quite welcome at those levels. Sure, you're not providing Statue Spawn including Bosses before you're a perma-Dom, but in a team, shutting down the minions and Lts for 15 seconds is quite a good contribution. And even Mag 3 can be welcome on a Boss for many other characters who can then add another Mag 2 or 3 just from random "chance to stun" attacks.

 

In the leveling process, control is useful by shutting down a good portion of the incoming damage even if it's not strong enough to shut down all damage like at high levels.

At high levels, control can shut down the entire spawn... but it doesn't need to, because at that point damage can just shut down the entire spawn by defeating it.

For this reason, I see "partial control that is welcome" as more useful than "total control that is irrelevant", even though you're quite right in the details of Dominators putting out far more control at late levels than at early levels.

[MTeague]

I've never tried a Mind/ dominator, in part because my blueside main hero is a Mind/Kin controller, and well... feels a bit duplicative until I do more alts and try out more powersets.

It's on the menu of things to come back to, but maybe not until I get to 40-50 characters (at 32 characters now).  

 

I am pretty optimistic that it'll be quite the treat once I DO get around to making a Mind/ dom though.  I've seen it talked up in several threads, and by several friends.

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

I'm quite happy to see a Dominator at level 22 throw a non-Dominate Stun and Immobilize into the spawn.

Here's the thing: in many cases, I'm not happy to see this. On almost any melee character, that Stun/Immobilize is going to severely hamper what I want to do while not affording me meaningful protection - after all, I probably already took the alpha strike.

 

Certainly, you can speculate about all-squishie groups that want to lock everything down. But even then, the Control sets are generally less important than the support sets.

[Coyote]

59 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Here's the thing: in many cases, I'm not happy to see this. On almost any melee character, that Stun/Immobilize is going to severely hamper what I want to do while not affording me meaningful protection - after all, I probably already took the alpha strike.

 

I suppose it depends on the melee character... I think at those levels, a lot can take the alpha strike, but are going to be below half health, and if the spawn isn't debuffed or controlled by their next set of attacks, the tank could die. At high levels that's not going to be a risk, and in any case the damage is going to clear minions fast, but not at lower levels. So I think that it's more useful than not... but it does depend on how well the melee character takes the damage. If he can take it and not worry about the next ten seconds of follow-up attacks, then you're right... control isn't necessary.

 

But there are enough teams whose lead tank can't handle that, since a lot of tanks only get their defenses solid in the late 20s and 30s as they get enough slots to balance attacks and defenses, and there are teams who use a Scrapper or something else that's only moderately tough as the lead since they don't have a true tank, to make control useful a lot of the time. Not all the time, as you say there will be teams who don't need control, but there will also be a lot of teams who either need it, or at least have a use for it. Leaving aside that as a tank against many opponents, I was way happy to see the Raider Engineer, or Tsoo Sorceror, or Spectral Demon Prince locked up before they could put out a nasty buff/debuff, and aggro control doesn't stop that.

[Coyote]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

I've never tried a Mind/ dominator, in part because my blueside main hero is a Mind/Kin controller, and well... feels a bit duplicative until I do more alts and try out more powersets.

It's on the menu of things to come back to, but maybe not until I get to 40-50 characters (at 32 characters now).  

 

I am pretty optimistic that it'll be quite the treat once I DO get around to making a Mind/ dom though.  I've seen it talked up in several threads, and by several friends.

 

It's WAY better than on a Controller. Like, you know, OMG, totally.

Even if it's clearly behind Dark Control.