Best damaging combo for MMs

[Maxzero]

1 hour ago, Dr Causality said:

It's no comparison, the Thugs personal attacks don't help.    You can't stack procs from Achilles, so the most you ever get will be -20%.   

 

And the cooldown on the Thugs personal attacks means their proc chances for Achilles are not reliable:

 

With Zero Recharge Enhancement Achilles proc chances are:

• Pistols w/ it's 3s cooldown just: 24.5%
• Dual Wield w/ 8s is 42%
• And Empty Clips your AOE proc opportunity:   is 30.7% 

You should probably skip the single target Thug attacks and take something like Weaken Resolve since it has capped 90% proc chance and it's own -12.98% Res.   But Demons can take that too....

 

Demon powers,  like Sonic,  stack their -Res, unlike procs can be slotted for Recharge to maximize the -Res stacking.   

• You can easily maintain 2x Corruption and 1x Crack Whip for a total of -28% Res
• Hellfire Demonling has Corruption that does -15% Res for 5s on 4s cooldown
• Hellfire Gargoyle  has the same Corruption -15% Res

You regularly should hit peaks of -58% Res, but will more often maintain -43%.  These are raw that will be decrease by AV/Gm resistance but still are very sizable.     And again you too can take powers that give you the Achilles proc, plus you get the bonus of benefitting from the BP Lore Pet -Cold Res.    All together this let's you stack Sonic attack level -Res.

 

 

Why would you ignore game powers when theory crafting?     Ignoring data is only good for politicians and product marketing.  🙂

 

 

 

I find it difficult to fit a lot of those MM attacks in power wise. Things are pretty tight slot wise for MMs as well. I only uses 1 MM attack and its for +Recharge proc fishing anyway.

 

Again you need your pets alive and attacking for you to gain that -res benefit.

 

The difference between softcap def and 20 or so defence is massive.

 

While accuracy ups the odds slighty def softcap means roughly 95% of attacks miss. That means even T1 pets are fairly safe up to +2 (+3 if you have Alpha). In Incarnate content they get boosted to your level anyway.

 

20% defence is far weaker you are probably looking at around 40% of attacks missing at best. Your T1 and T2 will die on a fairly regular basis.

 

To me Thugs/Storm syncs to together so much better then Demons/Storm. Demons work much better with Sonic, Thermal and Time (super tanky pets!).

 

For pure DPS maybe Demons/Storm has a theoretical edge but in practise it is difficult for it to live up to it.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Maxzero

[Coyote]

8 hours ago, Maxzero said:

To me Thugs/Storm syncs to together so much better then Demons/Storm. Demons work much better with Sonic, Thermal and Time (super tanky pets!).

 

For pure DPS maybe Demons/Storm has a theoretical edge but in practise it is difficult for it to live up to it.

 

I agree with this. But I also agree with Dr Causality that statistically, a Demon/Storm will pull out more damage on paper vs a single target. And if someone makes the argument that it's harder to reach theoretical maximums with Demons than with Thugs in normal play, that's true also... but both points should be mentioned and explained so that someone reading the thread gets a good understanding of which sets do highest damage and under what conditions, rather than a blanket statement that one is better than the other, no contest. Not that I'm suggesting that you ever did anything like that, actually.

 

For my contribution: with personal attacks, Demons push out about 60% -Res, which multiplies both their own damage and Storms (in theory). So assuming that they started with the same base damage (which is not true), they would do about 1.6x Thugs damage. And with a slight bonus of using Lash in an attack rotation which brings up Storm powers faster, and a major bonus of "where did my Endurance go?!?". However, players should remember that going up in levels hurts sets that depend on -Res more than sets depending on pure damage. Going to +3 pulls the damage down to about 70%, which has the same effects on all sets. But it also pull the debuffs to 70%, so while both sets drop in base damage, the Demons now are at about a 1.42 multiplier instead of 1.6. So they get affected more by level differences than Thugs, who depend more on base damage than on -Res.

[Dr Causality]

 

11 hours ago, Maxzero said:

 

I find it difficult to fit a lot of those MM attacks in power wise. Things are pretty tight slot wise for MMs as well. I only uses 1 MM attack and its for +Recharge proc fishing anyway.

 

Again you need your pets alive and attacking for you to gain that -res benefit.

 

The difference between softcap def and 20 or so defence is massive.

 

While accuracy ups the odds slighty def softcap means roughly 95% of attacks miss. That means even T1 pets are fairly safe up to +2 (+3 if you have Alpha). In Incarnate content they get boosted to your level anyway.

 

20% defence is far weaker you are probably looking at around 40% of attacks missing at best. Your T1 and T2 will die on a fairly regular basis.

 

To me Thugs/Storm syncs to together so much better then Demons/Storm. Demons work much better with Sonic, Thermal and Time (super tanky pets!).

 

For pure DPS maybe Demons/Storm has a theoretical edge but in practise it is difficult for it to live up to it.

 

I don't disagree with anything you're saying.    Thugs are very balanced, and a powerful,  near perfect synergy with /Storm.        But the bar being discussed has been set significantly higher than those fairly uncontentious points.   See below: 

 

 

On 5/14/2020 at 9:07 AM, Dixa said:

...hands down, nothing is stronger than thugs. single target. aoe. it doesn't matter - nothing is stronger than thugs whether you factor in a secondary or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dixa]

13 hours ago, Dr Causality said:

It's no comparison, the Thugs personal attacks don't help.    You can't stack procs from Achilles, so the most you ever get will be -20%.   

 

And the cooldown on the Thugs personal attacks means their proc chances for Achilles are not reliable:

 

With Zero Recharge Enhancement Achilles proc chances are:

• Pistols w/ it's 3s cooldown just: 24.5%
• Dual Wield w/ 8s is 42%
• And Empty Clips your AOE proc opportunity:   is 30.7% 

You should probably skip the single target Thug attacks and take something like Weaken Resolve since it has capped 90% proc chance and it's own -12.98% Res.   But Demons can take that too....

 

Demon powers,  like Sonic,  stack their -Res, unlike procs can be slotted for Recharge to maximize the -Res stacking.   

• You can easily maintain 2x Corruption and 1x Crack Whip for a total of -28% Res
• Hellfire Demonling has Corruption that does -15% Res for 5s on 4s cooldown
• Hellfire Gargoyle  has the same Corruption -15% Res

You regularly should hit peaks of -58% Res, but will more often maintain -43%.  These are raw that will be decrease by AV/Gm resistance but still are very sizable.     And again you too can take powers that give you the Achilles proc, plus you get the bonus of benefitting from the BP Lore Pet -Cold Res.    All together this let's you stack Sonic attack level -Res.

 

 

Why would you ignore game powers when theory crafting?     Ignoring data is only good for politicians and product marketing.  🙂

 

 

lore pets should never be considered for any discussions regarding the balance between powersets. 

[Dixa]

3 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

I agree with this. But I also agree with Dr Causality that statistically, a Demon/Storm will pull out more damage on paper vs a single target. And if someone makes the argument that it's harder to reach theoretical maximums with Demons than with Thugs in normal play, that's true also... but both points should be mentioned and explained so that someone reading the thread gets a good understanding of which sets do highest damage and under what conditions, rather than a blanket statement that one is better than the other, no contest. Not that I'm suggesting that you ever did anything like that, actually.

 

For my contribution: with personal attacks, Demons push out about 60% -Res, which multiplies both their own damage and Storms (in theory). So assuming that they started with the same base damage (which is not true), they would do about 1.6x Thugs damage. And with a slight bonus of using Lash in an attack rotation which brings up Storm powers faster, and a major bonus of "where did my Endurance go?!?". However, players should remember that going up in levels hurts sets that depend on -Res more than sets depending on pure damage. Going to +3 pulls the damage down to about 70%, which has the same effects on all sets. But it also pull the debuffs to 70%, so while both sets drop in base damage, the Demons now are at about a 1.42 multiplier instead of 1.6. So they get affected more by level differences than Thugs, who depend more on base damage than on -Res.

a demon/storm will work on paper, and it will work on the pylon.

 

it won't work that well in actual practice. 

 

It's unfortunate that the only boss dummy we have in the game is the pylon. It's size allows the demons to all be in melee range and cycle all of their attacks. in actual practice this is not how they perform against an av that's smaller than black scorpion. due to collision one or two of them wil be in melee range the rest sit back and cycle ranged attacks or endlessly trying to hop over one another. 

 

thugs doesn't have this problem. in actual practice, thugs will outdamage demons. it will outdamage all primaries in actual practice even if you can't be arsed to replace that arsonist. if you add storm into the mix then you aren't going to touch thugs/storm for damage. why?

 

1) the damage is entirely in their tier 2 and tier 3 pets. Other sets don't offer this. demons tier 3 is half damage half control their damage relies on the tier 2 and 3 and the one tier 2 and the one tier 3 that does toxic that also debuffs. beasts damage is almost entirely in the tier 1's. why is this important? two words: purple patch. 

 

2) they have the fastest animating aoe's. in the time the robots tier 1 has fired off it's cones the enforcers have fired off all three. you don't actually need the arsonist to kill a pack. let it die. 

 

3) they have a power that lets them park all 6 mm unique aura's without affecting their pet damage potential. 

 

4) that same power - if you can keep them alive for the duration - does a ton of damage. have burnout? yeah it's pretty much no contest. 

 

now survivability wise I don't think anything can top demons/thermal with warmth on auto fire especially since you can just straight up buy full CC protection for yourself at the p2w vendor. there are enough enemy types endgame with tohit buffs that just chew right through time. 

 

again i'm not addressing what's fun here, because the OP didn't ask for fun. he/she is asking for damage. thugs/storm can't be beat. 

 

if you want the best overall will almost never lose a pet setup on +4? demons/thermal, but knockback av's will make you want to punch a baby. 

[Coyote]

10 minutes ago, Dixa said:

lore pets should never be considered for any discussions regarding the balance between powersets. 

 

I can see some merit for this argument, but I can also see a counter argument.

 

When you have a buff/debuff set that does -Res, then pairing it with an attack set that does more damage than another set, the -Res is going to be of more benefit to the higher-damage attack set. Conversely, pairing a buff/debuff set that does damage directly, with an attack set that does -Res, results in more damage from that buff/debuff set. So, it is reasonable to consider the effects of -Res powers from one set, and damage powers from another set.

 

I'm not sure how reasonable this is to extend to Lore pets. It's a relatively rare situation, but on the other hand we're often considering edge cases when we're looking at maximums anyhow, so it does seem like a warranted factor to consider.

[Dixa]

1 minute ago, Coyote said:

 

I can see some merit for this argument, but I can also see a counter argument.

 

When you have a buff/debuff set that does -Res, then pairing it with an attack set that does more damage than another set, the -Res is going to be of more benefit to the higher-damage attack set. Conversely, pairing a buff/debuff set that does damage directly, with an attack set that does -Res, results in more damage from that buff/debuff set. So, it is reasonable to consider the effects of -Res powers from one set, and damage powers from another set.

 

I'm not sure how reasonable this is to extend to Lore pets. It's a relatively rare situation, but on the other hand we're often considering edge cases when we're looking at maximums anyhow, so it does seem like a warranted factor to consider.

lore pets make all primary/secondary combos across all at's viable for anything. they are a cheat, and should never be used in a discussion between actual performance between sets. 

 

many of the incarnate powers grant a significant power boost to most at's, but none on the level that those lore pets do. 

[Coyote]

2 minutes ago, Dixa said:

lore pets make all primary/secondary combos across all at's viable for anything. they are a cheat, and should never be used in a discussion between actual performance between sets. 

 

Well, again, why not?

A set that buffs ally Defense, Damage, and To Hit... will get more from a Lore pet since it can increase its accuracy, damage, and defense. The lore pet will survive longer against an AV and do more damage with that set, than with another set that doesn't do that. So, then, doesn't one set get more benefit from a lore pet than another?

 

Sure, your base concept that Lore pets make a great difference is true, but it's also true that the same Lore pet won't add the same amount to all sets. So, if the same Lore pet benefits some sets more than other sets, isn't that relevant?

Now, if it were actually true that Lore pets make all content trivial, and kill things so fast that the damage done by the primary/secodnary sets didn't matter, and didn't have to be defended to survive +4/x8, then it would be true that considering them would be irrelevant. But I've had AVs squish my pets, and I've had Lore pets do way more damage on a /Storm with a lot more -Res than on a Dominator with almost no -Res, and for those reasons I actually do consider which Lore may benefit a particular primary/secondary more than others. So, it does seem that different characters may benefit more from Lore pets in general, or from some specific Lore pets, and I think that it's worth mentioning.

 

You keep arguing about what I would consider the "general case"... a mix of AoE and single target, some AVs but mostly not fighting AVs all the time, etc. In those situation, Lore pets work about equally well for all characters, and shouldn't be considered. But some of those in the thread are discussing specific situation like an AV fight with a full tray of inspirations, Lore power recharged, etc, and which combination would do more damage there, versus a "general play" situation. It's not that either argument is more relevant, but what is relevant is realizing the difference in the situations that are being considered.

[BGSacho]

22 minutes ago, Dixa said:

1) the damage is entirely in their tier 2 and tier 3 pets. Other sets don't offer this. demons tier 3 is half damage half control their damage relies on the tier 2 and 3 and the one tier 2 and the one tier 3 that does toxic that also debuffs. beasts damage is almost entirely in the tier 1's. why is this important? two words: purple patch. 

 

2) they have the fastest animating aoe's. in the time the robots tier 1 has fired off it's cones the enforcers have fired off all three. you don't actually need the arsonist to kill a pack. let it die. 

 

3) they have a power that lets them park all 6 mm unique aura's without affecting their pet damage potential. 

 

4) that same power - if you can keep them alive for the duration - does a ton of damage. have burnout? yeah it's pretty much no contest. 

 

now survivability wise I don't think anything can top demons/thermal with warmth on auto fire especially since you can just straight up buy full CC protection for yourself at the p2w vendor. there are enough enemy types endgame with tohit buffs that just chew right through time. 

 

again i'm not addressing what's fun here, because the OP didn't ask for fun. he/she is asking for damage. thugs/storm can't be beat. 

 

if you want the best overall will almost never lose a pet setup on +4? demons/thermal, but knockback av's will make you want to punch a baby. 

I agree that Thugs are a great set(and overall, IMO, better than Demons, for some key reasons you've already noted), but the Demon Prince certainly isn't "half damage half control". He only has 1 attack that doesn't do damage - shiver - and the bruiser has a similar one(hand clap). He also has longer CDs, which pet AI uses more effectively than the extremely short CDs on jab and punch for the bruiser. Realistically, they both deal about the same DPS. The enforcers are the real overpowered pet in the set, holding triple duty as high single target, high aoe and great defensive utility. The Ember Demon actually performs above what the bare numbers suggest, because his rotation is so simple that the AI executes it pretty well. 

 

 

Incidentally, spreadsheet theory suggests that Necromancy should be the highest single target dps at +4. The Lich doesn't do as low dps as his skillset suggests, the GKs are obviously great, and T3 Soul Extraction is only -1 level, so it does really well at +4. Unfortunately, the necro pets are just baseline less tanky than the Demons or Thugs, so I've never been able to figure out how to make a power combo with them.

Edited May 15, 2020 by BGSacho

[Dr Causality]

2 hours ago, Dixa said:

lore pets should never be considered for any discussions regarding the balance between powersets. 

 

1 hour ago, Dixa said:

lore pets make all primary/secondary combos across all at's viable for anything. they are a cheat, and should never be used in a discussion between actual performance between sets. 

 

many of the incarnate powers grant a significant power boost to most at's, but none on the level that those lore pets do. 

I'm sympathetic to the idea that Incarnate powers broke the balance of standard PVE content.          And I get wanting to ignore them or create artificial limits for a personal challenge...**

 

But we're in a thread about "Most Damaging MM combos" and OP stated they're a power gamer (Min/Maxer), so seems very clear he's going to use Lore Pets and anything else that maximizes power.   Dirty Min/Maxxers like myself are going to use every (legal) tool they have available.    @Coyote already covered this more thoroughly, but from a Min/Max perspective one of the reasons to play a MM is precisely because of Lore Pets.    MM's with their two extra pet uniques, and a reason to slot the other four uniques, plus a support 2ndary, can make the most of the potentially very powerful Lore Pets.     For thorough fully optimized min/maxing  you have to consider Incarnate powers.     

 

Put another way if we're artificially limited ourselves not using game breaking out of balance powers, then by you're early arguments seems like we should not use Thugs either.   😋 

 

---

 

Taking a step back from all this.  You've made a number of good points.    It was your original claim that was a bit too extreme to be defensible, so I wanted to push back on that.   If you dial down the magnitude on the Thugs claim a bit, then we'll probably be mostly in agreement.    And we can stop hijacking OP's thread.  🙂

 

---

 

  _{**  Along those lines, I rolled Ninja/TA that I've been putting through solo ITF's and I'm working on something wild with /EA that I'll maybe post about this weekend.}  

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Dr Causality said:

_{**  Along those lines, I rolled Ninja/TA that I've been putting through solo ITF's and I'm working on something wild with /EA that I'll maybe post about this weekend.}  

 

I'm doing NinKin. Hopefully my plan to keep them alive by running into melee and melee heal-bodyguard-tanking for them will work 😄

[Kommon]

18 hours ago, Dixa said:

...

if you are going to include personal attacks, then include them equally. you can slot -res in thugs personals as well to keep it up permanently

...

 

17 hours ago, Dr Causality said:

...

With Zero Recharge Enhancement Achilles proc chances are:

• Pistols w/ it's 3s cooldown just: 24.5%
• Dual Wield w/ 8s is 42%
• And Empty Clips your AOE proc opportunity:   is 30.7% 

...

I thought I should chime in and say that Thugs personal attacks do not debuff defense, and, as such, do not accept defense debuff nor accurate defense debuff enhancements.  I know that on Live Thugs didn't have defense debuff in the personal attacks, and I became really excited thinking Homecoming added that in and I could save a slot in Enforcers, but checking both Mids and in-game confirmed they do not. 😢

[Dr Causality]

26 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

I'm doing NinKin. Hopefully my plan to keep them alive by running into melee and melee heal-bodyguard-tanking for them will work 😄

Will be interested to hear how that turns out for you.   Won't help until later levels, but  I recommend trying Bonfire builds.  Fire Mastery goes really well with Kinetics.     Giving the Epic shield was counter-intuitive to me, but from testing builds I found that for standard content Bonfire with Overwhelming feels notably stronger.  The mitigation ends up being more than enough to make up for loss of an Epic shield.     It's just against hard targets that are KB resistance like AVs that my Bonfire builds suffer.  

[Maxzero]

4 hours ago, Kommon said:

 

I thought I should chime in and say that Thugs personal attacks do not debuff defense, and, as such, do not accept defense debuff nor accurate defense debuff enhancements.  I know that on Live Thugs didn't have defense debuff in the personal attacks, and I became really excited thinking Homecoming added that in and I could save a slot in Enforcers, but checking both Mids and in-game confirmed they do not. 😢

 

I actually have my -res procs in Tornado and the /Mace AoE.

 

In my Thug attack (Dual wield) I have no slotted recharge and use it just to proc FF +recharge. Since even with the low chance to proc it only needs to proc once a minute to be worthwhile.

 

Have no room for Will Power pool.

 

I remember Frosticus' video where he showed his attempt with Demons/Storm on the Pylon. He actually engaged first with himself and tanked all the pylons attacks while his pets came in later. Obviously because due the pylon knockback Demons could not do it themselves.

 

How practical is that to do in regular play I have my doubts about. Everytime you fight Longbow are you going to intercept all the Frag Grenades? When fighting Carnival are you going to agro all the Master Ilusionists to protect your henchmen from Flash (bad idea)? When fighting Malta are you going to tank the Flash Grenades (extremely bad idea)?

Edited May 16, 2020 by Maxzero

[Majinbewbs]

I'm fairly new to the game, but my first character did go with demons/storm calling mostly because it looked cool and I had no idea what I was doing.

 

I will say from my perspective as someone who went with this while learning the game and soloing all the time it's a pretty nice build. The demons were pretty squishy early on, but now unless the difficulty is up I don't have to re-summon the good ones much. Steamy Mist and tactics stuff helped a lot. The Demon Prince can freeze even pretty beefy targets  so I can focus on other things and the storm calling is really fun for being a bully and seeing rooms of mobs fall and slip a lot is still funny and pretty effective for opening a fight. I think it's pretty good damage wise especially if you like being active. So that is my two cents as a newish player who can't play much

 

also sorry if it's only semi-on topic, but Its kind of weird that I never see people talk about necromancy though. Is it bad or really hard to make work? Is there some way to make it as good as others for either damage or survivability?

 

 

[Force Redux]

Necro is fine, it's a middle of the road dps set, trading some damage for control. If you like the control-ery  aspects, it's very fun and helpful on teams. It's one of my favorite sets. It also enjoys a number of ways to use procs.

[Force Redux]

On 5/4/2020 at 11:28 PM, killerdestiny said:

Heyo. In my quest to have the meta combos on every AT I have come on MM next. 

 

Yes I am a power gamer. Thats how I get my kicks. Anyway, whats the highest damage combo post IOs and incarnates for MM?

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: Did some research. How does everyone feel about thugs/time, bots/time, thugs/storm, nature/kin

 

I love doing procs and just min/maxing

To OP:

Go Thugs/Time for max dps and survival. Mine is 50+3 fully incarnated and it's easily the most powerful MM I have. I run at +4/x8 on Brigg's S/L farm without breaking a sweat. 

 

If you want big game hunting (AVs or GMs) go Bots with either Time or Traps because Big Bot's - Regen is worth about 60-75 dps all by itself.

 

These are all part of the meta. 

 

You didn't mention demons or dark, but they are also meta.

 

Just my quick 2 cents. MMs have been my main AT since CoV launched.

 

Best thing to do is try them for yourself. You can always go to test server 🙂

[Maxzero]

53 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

To OP:

Go Thugs/Time for max dps and survival. Mine is 50+3 fully incarnated and it's easily the most powerful MM I have. I run at +4/x8 on Brigg's S/L farm without breaking a sweat. 

 

If you want big game hunting (AVs or GMs) go Bots with either Time or Traps because Big Bot's - Regen is worth about 60-75 dps all by itself.

 

These are all part of the meta. 

 

You didn't mention demons or dark, but they are also meta.

 

Just my quick 2 cents. MMs have been my main AT since CoV launched.

 

Best thing to do is try them for yourself. You can always go to test server 🙂

 

For me it would be Demons/Time.

 

If you go Barrier you could have pets that are 40%+ Def all (50% for half of Barrier duration) while having like 80% resist.

 

Combine that with the general -resist of Demons and you are looking at one tanky customer that does some pretty damn good damage.

 

Even got a theoretical build I will make someday:

 

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I edit my Barrier to 5% Def and Res to give a more accurate picture.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Maxzero

[Maxzero]

 

Speedrunner using a Demon/Cold to drop a Pylon in 9 seconds:

 

 

Impressive.

 

Yes he is using a Lore Pet and other consumables but I suspect even without them his time would still be sub 20 seconds.

 

Basically he uses Burn Out to double stack Sleet and Heat Loss for massive -res to burst targets down.

 

Actually has some defensive value too since Shields gives Positional defence and resists.

 

Thinking of a build that stacks Leadership, Ice Shield, Arctic Fog, Pet uniques (+10%) and Barrier (Heat Loss means you don't need Ageless) to get around 42-43% positional defence and probably 80% S/L resist and capped Cold, Fire resist.

 

-37% damage, mez debuff and -regen from Benumb makes AVs a joke.

 

Possibilities.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Maxzero

[Dark Bladed]

Just keep in mind, that is with Lores, a signature summon, and a backup radio, all while at the damage cap along with his normal pets at the damage cap. If you stripped those away, and ran no inspirations, it's going to be more like a minute+, not 20 seconds. It's still impressive, but that's the nature of having so many pets, nothing unique to demons/ specifically.

[Maxzero]

6 hours ago, Dark Bladed said:

Just keep in mind, that is with Lores, a signature summon, and a backup radio, all while at the damage cap along with his normal pets at the damage cap. If you stripped those away, and ran no inspirations, it's going to be more like a minute+, not 20 seconds. It's still impressive, but that's the nature of having so many pets, nothing unique to demons/ specifically.

 

Eh not so sure. The -res stacking is extreme. Remember the more -res you stack the more powerful each -res gets since resistance is not only resistance to damage of a certain type its also resistance to resistance debuffs of the same damage type.

 

So someone with 50% S/L will resist 50% of S/L resistance debuffs. But that also applies in reverse. If someone in negative resistances then further debuffs of that type have a greater effect so if a target -50% S/L resist then further S/L resistances debuffs would be 50% stronger.

 

A Pylon has 20% damage resistance.

 

This guy is stacking 2 x 30%, 2 x 24%, 1 x 20%, 1 x 9.3% plus pets (60%+ there). He should be spiking at well over 200% -resistance. That is plain inhuman.

 

I know for a fact my Thugs/Storm would not be able to do that in the same situation. It cannot spike -resistance anywhere near as high and Tornado and Lightning Storm take time to do the damage. I am probably looking at 30-40 second kill at best.

 

Current plan:

 

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Edit Barrier to 5% def and resist.

 

Pets

Power Boost + Shields means pets are Softcapped to all positionals plus S/L/E/NE

~80%+ S/L resistance

Capped Fire and Cold resistance

~70% Energy/Toxic resistance

~55% resistance to everything else

 

Combined with a 50% damage debuff on hard targets means my pets are super tanking and crazy tier resistance stacking (-200%+).

 

Good party buffs too (End recovery +40% to all Pos Def and -res/def debuffs) and thematically consistant.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Maxzero

[Dark Bladed]

I meant any /cold MM will be doing that. You can get similar kill times with a TW/Bio, and the same extra pets, all while at the damage cap. Those Lores and signature summon are doing most of the damage, not the MM pets.

[Maxzero]

8 minutes ago, Dark Bladed said:

I meant any /cold MM will be doing that. You can get similar kill times with a TW/Bio, and the same extra pets, all while at the damage cap. Those Lores and signature summon are doing most of the damage, not the MM pets.

 

TW/Bio 9 second pylon kills eh?

 

Lets see it.

 

That Lore pet isn't there for the damage it's there for the -res debuff. It got off like 2 attacks.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Maxzero

[Elmyder]

4 hours ago, Maxzero said:

 

Eh not so sure. The -res stacking is extreme. Remember the more -res you stack the more powerful each -res gets since resistance is not only resistance to damage of a certain type its also resistance to resistance debuffs of the same damage type.

 

So someone with 50% S/L will resist 50% of S/L resistance debuffs. But that also applies in reverse. If someone in negative resistances then further debuffs of that type have a greater effect so if a target -50% S/L resist then further S/L resistances debuffs would be 50% stronger.

 

This is not correct. Resistance debuffs are resisted by damage resistance before any debuffs. If your damage resistance before debuffs is 20%, then every -res applied to you will be 80% full strength, no matter how low your resistance is debuffed.

 

Here is a reference, but this can easily be checked in game with power analyzer as well:

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Resistance_(Mechanics)

Edited May 16, 2020 by Elmyder

[Maxzero]

5 minutes ago, Elmyder said:

This is not correct. Resistance debuffs are resisted by damage resistance before any debuffs. If your damage resistance before debuffs is 20%, then every -res applied to you will be 80% full strength, no matter how low your resistance is debuffed.

 

After reading up about it right you are.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Maxzero