I've always been nervous about playing Tankers

[r0y]

4 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

Also, people need to stop herding. In a game of 17 maximum aggro cap, there is no reason for herding at all (sure, if you want, group up the single spawn, but that's not really herding). If you herd two groups together past the 17 limit it just means your team will be pulling that aggro instead of you. Sure, some builds can handle it, but don't count on that on PUGs. 

WHAT?!?

 

Seriously, WHAT are you doing in the Tanker section?

 

It should be every tank's goal to successfully herd the entire map, if possible.  There are tricks and techniques to bumping that up (e.g. Radial Lore intangible pet).  Throw taunts and attacks out to aggro-hop, etc.  I've been tanking massive herds for years and I've never seen anyone complain.

 

Seriously, why would you say to stop herding as a tank?

[drbuzzard]

2 minutes ago, r0y said:

WHAT?!?

 

Seriously, WHAT are you doing in the Tanker section?

 

It should be every tank's goal to successfully herd the entire map, if possible.  There are tricks and techniques to bumping that up (e.g. Radial Lore intangible pet).  Throw taunts and attacks out to aggro-hop, etc.  I've been tanking massive herds for years and I've never seen anyone complain.

 

Seriously, why would you say to stop herding as a tank?

If the concept of aggro caps doesn't make sense to you, I'm not going to bother to explain. 

[r0y]

1 hour ago, drbuzzard said:

If the concept of aggro caps doesn't make sense to you, I'm not going to bother to explain. 

There's also Damage Caps, but people like to get a lot of -Res to circumvent that...  does -res not make sense to you or something?

 

Can say the same thing for ToHit, Defense, etc.  Hell, why have debuffs?  Why go beyond the caps?

 

Oy vey.

Edited May 22, 2020 by r0y

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, drbuzzard said:

If the concept of aggro caps doesn't make sense to you, I'm not going to bother to explain. 

The issue isn't really aggro caps but target caps. It doesn't make any sense to pile 100 mobs in the same place when none of your attacks can hit more than 16 at once. The "herd the entire map" notion is long dead because it doesn't make any sense.

 

In terms of the aggro cap, it's a bit flexible. While you can only hold aggro against 17 targets at one time, you can effectively hold a greater number of targets by shuffling enemies on and off your aggro list (which is an almost natural byproduct of certain abilities).

 

There's also the reality that Tankers 'tanking' large crowds is a bit obsolete as well. Most fully built level 50s can take the alpha strike from a standard spawn. Where Tankers shine is against opponents with unusual attacks (Toxic, Psi) or extraordinarily strong abilities (Incarnate trials, some Task Force AVs).

[drbuzzard]

12 hours ago, Hjarki said:

The issue isn't really aggro caps but target caps. It doesn't make any sense to pile 100 mobs in the same place when none of your attacks can hit more than 16 at once. The "herd the entire map" notion is long dead because it doesn't make any sense.

 

In terms of the aggro cap, it's a bit flexible. While you can only hold aggro against 17 targets at one time, you can effectively hold a greater number of targets by shuffling enemies on and off your aggro list (which is an almost natural byproduct of certain abilities).

 

I agree that target caps are important as well (though incarnate attacks can go higher), but I've just seen too many tankers herd up a bunch at once and then some poor PUG blaster starts nuking the pile, and he quickly finds out that not all the bosses are part of the tank's aggro cap. 

[Call Me Awesome]

16 hours ago, r0y said:

There's also Damage Caps, but people like to get a lot of -Res to circumvent that...  does -res not make sense to you or something?

 

Can say the same thing for ToHit, Defense, etc.  Hell, why have debuffs?  Why go beyond the caps?

 

Oy vey.

The problem is that you cannot hold the attention of more than 17 enemies anymore so herding a map is no longer possible.  You can gather up at most two spawns (assuming you're set for +8 or on an 8 man team), any more will peel off and attack others or simply loose interest in you.

 

With a lot of work you may be able to loosely gather up more than 17 mobs but any extras will immediately loose interest in you when another teammate attracts their attention.  Unfortunately herding really is dead, and has been since before IO's came into the game.

[r0y]

5 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

With a lot of work you may be able to loosely gather up more than 17 mobs but any extras will immediately loose interest in you when another teammate attracts their attention.  Unfortunately herding really is dead, and has been since before IO's came into the game.

Thus, how one should play a tanker.  Thank you.

 

I admit, there are many tankers (players) who cannot achieve this very well or at all; however, some like to show that not only can it be done, but consistently and with great effect.

 

I know I can hold the attention of well beyond target and herd caps.  I do it regularly, it's the only reason or challenge I see in playing a tank in this game.

 

Also, if I have a brute/scrapper/stalker on the team, I can sure as hell herd up more than one PC can "legally" handle, anything that "loses interest" can become interested in another melee/damage dealer.  I guess if I was with a team rockin' full SO's and super timid, it would be a lot of work juggling aggro tables, etc.; however, again, that is what playing a tank is in this game, should one ever wish to push themselves.  YMMV.

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by r0y

[Hyperstrike]

23 hours ago, Hjarki said:

The issue isn't really aggro caps but target caps. It doesn't make any sense to pile 100 mobs in the same place when none of your attacks can hit more than 16 at once. The "herd the entire map" notion is long dead because it doesn't make any sense.

 

In terms of the aggro cap, it's a bit flexible. While you can only hold aggro against 17 targets at one time, you can effectively hold a greater number of targets by shuffling enemies on and off your aggro list (which is an almost natural byproduct of certain abilities).

 

There's also the reality that Tankers 'tanking' large crowds is a bit obsolete as well. Most fully built level 50s can take the alpha strike from a standard spawn. Where Tankers shine is against opponents with unusual attacks (Toxic, Psi) or extraordinarily strong abilities (Incarnate trials, some Task Force AVs).

To a certain degree I agree.

But then I watch "The Warriors" again, Queen's "I Want It All" starts playing over it and

ALL YOUR AGGRO ARE BELONG TO ME!!!!

 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Hyperstrike

[11Troy11]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:11 AM, josh1622 said:

Depending on how you're building it can be beneficial to minimize slots in your resistance toggles.  Some armor sets have an easier time capping resistances and don't need as many resistance set bonuses.  On those builds I'll just throw 2 50+5 resistance IOs in toggles if there are better bonuses to slot elsewhere.

Which power sets might those be?

[Pzn]

1 hour ago, 11Troy11 said:

Which power sets might those be?

Pure resistance sets like Elec, dark, and radiation.  Stone armor with granite too.  They all have well rounded resistances with only 1 or 2 holes so it's easy to cap them without as many set bonuses.  It takes a lot more bonuses to resistance cap something with a mixed bag of tools like willpower or bio.

Edited May 23, 2020 by josh1622

[Golden Azrael]

11 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

To a certain degree I agree.

But then I watch "The Warriors" again, Queen's "I Want It All" starts playing over it and

ALL YOUR AGGRO ARE BELONG TO ME!!!!

 

 

We're just waiting for the Hammer to Fall, yeahp.

 

Azrael.