Tanker metric

Pleonast · May 11, 2020

So, I've been playing around with different builds in Mids for my Willpower/Kinetic Melee Tanker. I'm not expert at tanking, but seems like Willpower doesn't really specialize in any one thing. Some powersets do Defense, some do Resistance, some do Regeneration. Willpower looks competent in all, and master of none. So my question is, how to improve my slotting to best improve my tanking; for example, is it better to improve Def by 1% or Resist by %1 or Regen by 1%?

The metric I've worked out is Average Sustainable Hits:

ASH = REGEN / ( max( 100 - DEF, 5) / 100 * max( 100 - RESIST, 10) / 100 )

where REGEN is my regeneration in hit points per second, DEF is defense percentage, and RESIST is resistance percentage.

Near the bottom end, raising defense 1% is about the same as raising resistance or regeneration by 2%. Near the top end (say 40% defense, 85% resistance), 1% defense is about the same as raising resistance 1.5% or regeneration 11%. I compute the metric separately for each type of damage. The take-away seems to be resistance becomes more useful as you get closer to the top, while regeneration becomes less useful. On the other hand, there's no limit on regeneration; it's always useful.

I'm sure this is old hat for long-time Tankers, but I figured this out myself and thought I'd share. Math is fun!

Psyonico · May 11, 2020

WP is one of my favorite sets, here's what you should aim for (and is relatively easy to hit, though a bit expensive)

S/L aim for 90% resist, Tough makes this much easier

F/C/E/N aim for 50+ % defense (since there is no Defense Debuff Resistance in the set). Weave and Combat Jumping help here, so does Maneuvers if you can afford the slot.

Regen, aim for over 700%

WP/Kin is one set I don't have, so I can't give you a solid, tested build, but here is probably how I would build it.

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mind Over Body -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam(5), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(11), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Ags-Psi/Status(46)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(43), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(45)
Level 2: Body Blow -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(45)
Level 4: Smashing Blow -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mk'Bit-Dam%(43)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-Heal(9), Trg-Heal/EndRdx(9), Trg-Heal/Rchg(11)
Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(13)
Level 14: High Pain Tolerance -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(15), ResDam-I(15), Pnc-Heal/+End(27), Heal-I(37), Heal-I(37)
Level 16: Fast Healing -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-Heal(17), Heal-I(17)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(19), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def(21)
Level 20: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 22: Power Siphon -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 26: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Burst -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Rchg(29), Erd-Dmg/Rchg(29), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(33), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(34), ClvBlo-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam(31), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(31), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(33)
Level 35: Focused Burst -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(42)
Level 38: Concentrated Strike -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mk'Bit-Dam%(40), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFrt-Def(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(50), RedFrt-Def(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(7), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(27), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(45), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46), NmnCnv-Heal(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(7)
------------

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I'm sure someone will yell at me for not having the build be perfect, but this should be pretty solid.

Caulderone · May 11, 2020

Bopper has a Survivability Tool that is really great.

Bopper · May 11, 2020

2 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

Bopper has a Survivability Tool that is really great.

Funny, I just had this open for something I'm about to post. But man...what can I do about the images that show up when linked? That giant "x 0.50" looks intimidating haha. At least my PPM guide shows source code, so that at least fits

Bopper · May 11, 2020

Some notes on my tool, as I haven't really updated the guide to match.

The Immortality Score is the most useful for comparing across ATs. It simply calculates what average DPS your enemy can throw at you that will exceed your average Hit Points per Second.

The Survivability Score is an AT specific ratio measurement. So for a tank, a Survivability Score of 9.00 simply means your tank build can take 9x as much damage to survive the user defined Survival Duration (defaulted to 600s, or 10 minutes) compared to a bare-bones Tank. So if you have a Brute with a Survivability Score of 10.00, that does not necessarily mean the Brute is more survivable than the 9.00 tank. Can't compare across ATs with this metric, it's intended as showing how well you built your AT for survival.

Werner · May 11, 2020

16 minutes ago, Bopper said:

what can I do about the images that show up when linked? That giant "x 0.50" looks intimidating haha.

I believe it uses a center rectangle from the first image. So to get a better image, post an image prior to any others where that center rectangle shows what you want to see. Or use text rather than images, but with all the formulas, the images are a lot easier to see.

Bopper · May 11, 2020

I also have to admit one major shortfall with my tool, I do not incorporate enemy defense debuffs, and I do not incorporate defense debuff resistance. There is a reason for that, I have the user input average damage per second, but not average attacks per second. I played around with tweaks of the tool, where the user inputs average damage per attack, then average attacks per second, however there is no simple formula for calculating the cascading defense failure (or I simply haven't tried hard enough to solve it). I did build a simulation program to show the cascading defensive failure, and it is mostly pretty (with enough padding and DDR, the defense debuff would oscillate kind of like a sine-wave, but otherwise, the plot looks like a low pass filter, eventually falling off fast). So...if I am ever bored or motivated, I may revisit defense debuffs, but unless I can do a simple formula for incorporating it, the spreadsheet Survivability Tool likely won't house it. It would need to become a program that simulates the effects many times and provides a distribution of results. Still useful, but I build programs in MATLAB, and I don't know how I would go about sharing that with others.

Pleonast · May 11, 2020

Oh, Bopper's spreadsheet is awesome!

I'll post my current build when I get home. I'm working on new build, without regard to costs, as a long-term project. I'll study Psyonico's suggestions. Thanks!

Edited to add:

I do have a copy of numbers from the game.

Defenses
Smash/Lethal: 28.36%
Fire/Cold: 45.32%
Energy/Negative: 39.06%
Psionic: 30.92%
Ranged: 18.02%
Melee: 20.52%
AoE: 21.14%
Resistances
Smash/Lethal: 85.63%
Fire/Cold: 19.89%
Energy/Negative: 20.64%
Psionic: 46.65%
Toxic: 18.39%
Base
Max HP: 2713.46
Max End: 103.60
Regeneration: 51.15 hp/sec
Recovery: 4.36 end/sec
To Hit: 97.96%
Accuracy: 1.48
Damage: 19.00%
Recharge: 135.00%

Edited May 11, 2020 by Pleonast
Numbers!

Werner · May 11, 2020

15 minutes ago, Bopper said:

I also have to admit one major shortfall with my tool, I do not incorporate enemy defense debuffs, and I do not incorporate defense debuff resistance.

Yeah, there are some things that can kill you that are hard to reduce to a simple calculation. I used to have my own survivability spreadsheet similar to but not as nice as yours, but I've abandoned it to work by experienced intuition once again like I did in the beginning, because what kills my main builds these days is rarely straightforward DPS overwhelming my defense, resistance, and healing. There are usually some sort of debuffs or drains involved. Still, I've plugged some numbers into your spreadsheet before. It's nice to have that data, even if it's only part of the picture.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Werner

Caulderone · May 11, 2020

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

The Immortality Score is the most useful for comparing across ATs.

This is the part I like the most.

Pleonast · May 12, 2020

Here's my current build.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

American Dream: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(3), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Body Blow -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Smashing Blow -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(19), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Mind Over Body -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(25)
Level 12: Indomitable Will -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), Ksm-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27)
Level 14: Rise to the Challenge -- RgnTss-Regen+(A), RgnTss-Heal/EndRdx(27)
Level 16: Quick Recovery -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(29), EndMod-I(29)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31), LucoftheG-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 20: Repulsing Torrent -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(33), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(34), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(34), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(34), MckBrt-Rchg(36)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 24: Boxing -- Dsrnt-I(A)
Level 26: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(36), GldArm-ResDam(37)
Level 28: Burst -- Mlt-Acc/Dmg(A), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Mlt-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(39), Rct-Def/EndRdx(39), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(39), LucoftheG-Def(40)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(40), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(40), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 35: Focused Burst -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(42), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(42), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(43), MckBrt-Rchg(43)
Level 38: Concentrated Strike -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(45), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(46), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(48), PrfShf-End%(48), PrfShf-EndMod(48)
Level 47: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(50), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), Mrc-Heal(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17), EndMod-I(17)
Level 50: Vigor Core Boost
Level 50: Ion Judgement
Level 50: Diamagnetic Interface
Level 50: Longbow Ally
Level 50: Barrier Invocation
Level 50: Melee Genome
------------

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Caulderone · May 12, 2020

2 hours ago, Pleonast said:

Here's my current build.

Focused Accuracy + Tactics seems like overkill. FA alone leaves you well past 100% tohit on +4s and gives 86.5% tohit debuff protection.

Just a thought, and it would give you another power pick to play with.

This is coming from an Accuracy snob/junky, btw. I love FA.

Pleonast · May 12, 2020

10 hours ago, Caulderone said:

Focused Accuracy + Tactics seems like overkill. FA alone leaves you well past 100% tohit on +4s and gives 86.5% tohit debuff protection.

Just a thought, and it would give you another power pick to play with.

This is coming from an Accuracy snob/junky, btw. I love FA.

I always love more accuracy and more endurance. Probably from a previous life of waiting far too long to get enough energy and then miss the target.

Pleonast · May 12, 2020

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

American Dream: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal(3), Heal-I(3), GldArm-3defTpProc(5), GldArm-ResDam(5), ResDam-I(7)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), FrcFdb-Dmg/KB(7), FrcFdb-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(9)
Level 2: Body Blow -- AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(A), AbsAmz-Stun(9), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(11)
Level 4: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Smashing Blow -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(17), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hct-Acc/Rchg(19), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hct-Dam%(21)
Level 8: Mind Over Body -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(23), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Fast Healing -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(27), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(27), RgnTss-Regen+(29)
Level 12: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Rise to the Challenge -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(29), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(31)
Level 16: Quick Recovery -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(31), PrfShf-End%(31), PrfShf-EndMod(33)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(33), Rct-Def/EndRdx(33), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Repulsing Torrent -- PrfZng-Taunt(A), PrfZng-Taunt/Rng(34), PrfZng-Dam%(34), PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 24: Boxing -- Dsrnt-I(A)
Level 26: Tough -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam(37), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(37), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(37), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 28: Burst -- PrfZng-Taunt(A), PrfZng-Taunt/Rng(39), PrfZng-Dam%(39), PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(40), PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg(40), PrfZng-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Weave -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), ShlWal-Def(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 35: Focused Burst -- PrfZng-Taunt(A), PrfZng-Taunt/Rng(43), PrfZng-Dam%(45), PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(45)
Level 38: Concentrated Strike -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(48)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(48), PrfShf-End%(48), PrfShf-EndMod(50), Heal-I(50), Heal-I(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Heal(11), Heal-I(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(13), PrfShf-End%(15), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 50: Vigor Core Boost
Level 50: Ion Judgement
Level 50: Diamagnetic Interface
Level 50: Longbow Ally
Level 50: Barrier Invocation
Level 50: Melee Genome
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1531;711;1422;HEX;|
		|78DA6594CB6F125114C6EFC02052682905EC130BD80205CAC3D6ADA6B1ADE9D31A5|
		|F4B32A1D776EC74A00346BBD3A4F5B17563DCB976E1C6F8DFB8F4D19AF4111F5557|
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		|A0BA1E54B70BD5ED4275BD74ACF3A8484FA039FE40D7270F6FEE60537FDDA2BF8F3|
		|6C7FF000643E6EC|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

This is the build I'm planning. (I have to say the post editor here is nigh unusable.)

Edited May 12, 2020 by Pleonast

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