Tanker Without Set IOs

[Glowman]

I’m thinking about building a tanker without any set IOs for the extra challenge. What power sets would you choose? How would you go about slotting?

[SuperPlyx]

Well,I guess you would have to decide if you wanted a defense build or resistance. With Shield Defense or Super Reflexes you could hit defense soft-cap of Melee,Range and AoE with the addition of Combat Jumping,Weave and Maneuvers. Add in a attack set that gives a defense boost,like Broadsword,Katana,Martial Arts,etc and you could be well over soft-cap.

[Psyonico]

It really depends on what you want to do with it.

 

I've got an SR/MA toon that is only taking a couple of set IOs for QOL reasons (Miracle +recovery for example) and she soft capped her defense at level 22 thanks to storm kick.  I think your best, well rounded choices (in no particular order) are

 

Rad

Bio

Willpower

Shield

SR

 

Pair WP, SR or Shield with Dark or Rad melee for the heal.  SR is really only good if you want to keep a tray full of oranges, as it's stupidly easy to soft cap (Combat Jumping + Maneuvers gives you 47ish% defense)

 

Stone Armor is also a good choice for survivability, but from a QoL standpoint, you're going to be slogging around quite a bit jumping in and out of Granite/Rooted.

[oOStaticOo]

Elec/Claws with Cardiac Alpha and all the Accolades wouldn't be too bad.

[KC4800]

I am having a lot of fun with an Ice Armor/Stone melee tank. No sets so far (lvl 30) although I have added procs slow-smashing damage, End Mod + End. the typical stuff. I don't really worry about soft capped defense, I just eat a purple and use a blue drone if its not attacked prematurely. Cleaned out Boomtown in my mid to late teens, Warriors, Tsoo Freaks.  Terra Volta Trench in mid to late 20s. Now 30 and in Crey's Folly. Just street sweeping and owning.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Zer0 Hour said:

I’m thinking about building a tanker without any set IOs for the extra challenge. What power sets would you choose? How would you go about slotting?

The game was played before invention origin enhancements existed and was awesome. Any of the sets that worked then, will work now. Endurance is likely one thing to be mindful of.

 

General Slotting

Attacks: 2 Accuracy, 3 Damage with an optional End Reduction or Recharge

Defense / Resistance Toggles: 3 Defense or Resistance with 2 End Reduction

Defense / Resistance Autos: 3 Defense or Resistance

Stamina: 2 Endurance

Health: 3 Heal

 

These may be over slotting in some cases which are easy enough to figure out.

Accuracy and Endurance end up being often overlooked and under slotted.

 

Having a single origin or standard invention origin build and sprinkling in some unique IOs is also a fun way to play.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Troo
oops forgot slotting

[Glowman]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

[Brutal Justice]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

The game was played before invention origin enhancements existed and was awesome. Any of the sets that worked then, will work now. Endurance is likely one thing to be mindful of.

 

General Slotting

Attacks: 2 Accuracy, 3 Damage with an optional End Reduction or Recharge

Defense / Resistance Toggles: 3 Defense or Resistance with 2 End Reduction

Defense / Resistance Autos: 3 Defense or Resistance

Stamina: 2 Endurance

Health: 3 Heal

 

These may be over slotting in some cases which are easy enough to figure out.

Accuracy and Endurance end up being often overlooked and under slotted.

 

Having a single origin or standard invention origin build and sprinkling in some unique IOs is also a fun way to play.

This is how I play almost all of my toons until lvl 47.  I use standard lvl 25 and 30 IOs that I keep stockpiled in my base from my crafter.  I use the Standard IOs instead of SOs to save money and time.  I do sprinkle a unique into the build here and there depending on individual needs.  

 

Playing like this I am fully capable.  I will adjust my difficulty settings to match my team.  I usually aim for somebody almost dying with each fight.  Be myself or someone else.  This difficulty naturally ramps up with levels and better slotting.  

 

Playing like this works for me. I feel I have a better sense of game balance by playing toons built more or less the way they are balanced.  If we are balancing around SOs and not IOs.  It also gives me a goal or reason to hit lvl 50 and keep playing said toon after 50.  Admittedly, I have such altitis that I generally move on from a toon right after I finish an IO build and t3 alpha.  

[Call Me Awesome]

6 hours ago, Troo said:

The game was played before invention origin enhancements existed and was awesome. Any of the sets that worked then, will work now. Endurance is likely one thing to be mindful of.

 

General Slotting

Attacks: 2 Accuracy, 3 Damage with an optional End Reduction or Recharge

Defense / Resistance Toggles: 3 Defense or Resistance with 2 End Reduction

Defense / Resistance Autos: 3 Defense or Resistance

Stamina: 2 Endurance

Health: 3 Heal

 

These may be over slotting in some cases which are easy enough to figure out.

Accuracy and Endurance end up being often overlooked and under slotted.

 

Having a single origin or standard invention origin build and sprinkling in some unique IOs is also a fun way to play.

Just to nitpick a bit, you'll save LOTS more endurance with one endred in an attack than slotting two endred in all your toggles.  The old school rule of thumb was 1 endred per toggle and 1 accuracy, 3 damage, 1 endurance, 1 recharge in attacks.  Toss three endmod in Stamina and you're good.  If you're using level 50 IO's then two endmod is enough.

 

Slotting went like this:

Armor toggles - 3 Resist or Defense, one endred.

Attacks - 1 accuracy, 3 damage, 1 endred, 1 recharge.

Passives - 3 Resist or Defense

Stamina - 3 Endmod

Health - 3 Heal

 

That was considerably more endurance sustainable than slotting 2 endred in the toggles.

[Troo]

@Call Me Awesome That's fair.

 

I was trying to provide a general idea of the slotting while leveling.

Personally, for endurance on a tank, I two slot toggles AND single slot a couple often used attacks.. until they are possibly not needed. But I am an endurance-miser.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Troo

[Call Me Awesome]

11 hours ago, Troo said:

@Call Me Awesome That's fair.

 

I was trying to provide a general idea of the slotting while leveling.

Personally, for endurance on a tank, I two slot toggles AND single slot a couple often used attacks.. until they are possibly not needed. But I am an endurance-miser.

No problem, I used to overslot endred in toggles back in issue 3-4 until I saw the numbers and how much more you saved from the attacks.  I think one endred in Seismic Smash saved enough end to run all the Invuln toggles for more than 10 seconds.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Call Me Awesome said:

No problem, I used to overslot endred in toggles back in issue 3-4 until I saw the numbers and how much more you saved from the attacks.  I think one endred in Seismic Smash saved enough end to run all the Invuln toggles for more than 10 seconds.

/agree. My experience has been that Endurance management is the biggest issue for 'classic' (pre-IO) Tankers. I was slightly disappointed how quickly Endurance improvements for Tankers were abandoned prior to the 'Tanker Patch'.

 

The first two slots of each attack should be Accuracy and Endurance. I think slotting Endurance first is a better choice mathematically, but I won't fault anyone who goes with their gut for Accuracy first.

 

At low levels, the primary Defense/Resist powers are not going to benefit from low-level enhancements; I would not be in a hurry to multi-slot these. At most I would slot two, depending on the nature of the power (Toggle or Auto? Size of Bonus? Endurance Cost? Secondary effects?), until spare slots start appearing.

 

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/14/2020 at 2:08 PM, Zer0 Hour said:

I’m thinking about building a tanker without any set IOs for the extra challenge. What power sets would you choose? How would you go about slotting?

I find out what I haven't tried before.

 

Test it upto L8 to see if I like the feel of it.

 

Then if I do, I try to unlock the alchemy of the optimised SO build.

 

So I always build for SOs before I think about IO sets.

 

Once you find what you like.  Play it.  Then optimise the build.

 

When you're happy with SO build?  Lock it in with general IO sets for cost savings if you wish.

 

This could be Invul/EM.  Stone/WP.  Def/SJ.  Ice/Ice/Ice.  (The latter two I optimised the hell out of the SOs to begin with before I went near IOs sets at L50.)

 

I love SO builds.  I like the IO set building etc.  Incarnates are a cherry on top.  But the core game to me is going from TO to DO to SO.

 

That's where the fun is for me.  You don't have to break out the abbaccus to enjoy a sound build or have fun in pick up and play COH.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:20 PM, tidge said:

/agree. My experience has been that Endurance management is the biggest issue for 'classic' (pre-IO) Tankers. I was slightly disappointed how quickly Endurance improvements for Tankers were abandoned prior to the 'Tanker Patch'.

 

The first two slots of each attack should be Accuracy and Endurance. I think slotting Endurance first is a better choice mathematically, but I won't fault anyone who goes with their gut for Accuracy first.

 

At low levels, the primary Defense/Resist powers are not going to benefit from low-level enhancements; I would not be in a hurry to multi-slot these. At most I would slot two, depending on the nature of the power (Toggle or Auto? Size of Bonus? Endurance Cost? Secondary effects?), until spare slots start appearing.

 

Ah...end toggles and end reds.  My favourite topics.

 

I find one stops the end bar coming back...and the other creates the end toggle cascade.  Especially  on toggle heavy sets.

 

Chicken and egg situation.

 

As a general rule, in the early levels it's good to go with the Accs and End reds.  Makes a diff'.  Marked difference.  I also whack two end reds into toggles to begin with and keep that as I DO and SO.  Then fill out the rest of the toggle attributes.

 

Ultimately, depending on the end cost of toggle and attack, I pack 1-3 end reds in there.  Eg.  The Rad' anchor toggles are...well...3 end red in them for me.

 

The heavier the toggle?   Up to 3 and even then it's not enough.  Two end reds on lower cost toggles.  No toggle has just '1' end red in it.  I can always tell.  It leads to end failure in prolonged fights. The end won't come back fast enough for the amount of intensity in a prolonged fight.

 

Heavy attacks.  Two end reds Max.  Average attacks.  1 end red.

 

If I'm still out of end on an SO build I may fit out even medium attacks with two end reds.  Again.  Depends on the cost numbers.

 

Having inherent stamina (did we ever not have it inherent and how did we cope?  I remember well...) boosted to x3 SOs as quick as possible helps.

 

 

Azrael.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Golden Azrael