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PhillyPhil26

Set bonuses on trollers

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Hey guys what set bonuses do you focus on for controllers?
i have an elec/rad that is about halfway built but im wondering if  i even need to IO him or maybe just use normal enhancements for him since he's a team character only?
maybe sell his io's for influence or transfer to my other toons?

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IOs are good to slot.  Level 30+ Common IOs outperform SOs, and 50+ Common IOs are way better and can save you slots.  For example, you might be tempted to 3-slot End Mod SOs in Stamina, but you can 2-slot level 50 IOs and get almost as good, and you get better performance if you're 2-slotting 50+5 IOs.  That being said, I only use Common IOs on stuff I'm only 2-slotting.  Any power that gets more than 2 slots gets either a proc (3-slot Stamina, but one is the Performance Shifter +End proc) or a set (all other powers).

 

Keep an eye out for procs or IOs that give some kind of global effect beyond just the normal enhancements.  The aforementioned Performance Shifter +End proc gives an occasional End boost.  Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Global Recharge Speed is popular enough to be expensive and good enough that I slot one in every power that can take a Defense set.  Freebird: Stealth (for Fly; other travel powers have equivalents) is a nice way to get a little stealth on a non-stealth character.  Numina's Convalescence: Recovery/Regen is a global +Rec/+Regen that's hard to pass up (and everyone can slot it in Health; might as well at least 2-slot the set for the Regen set bonus as well).

 

For Mind/Kin, I really don't want to miss, so at the top of my set bonus list is Accuracy.  Everyone has room for Recharge, especially if you're chasing Perma-something (I'm not, but Recharge is still good because I have a few long-recharge powers).  Damage, Recovery, and Regeneration are all solid choices.  If you're slotting sets, you'll get some Resistance and Defense along the way that will improve your survivability, but I don't slot looking for those unless I'm on a character looking to cap those.

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On my /Kin controller, I had multiple Travel power IOs slotted (IIRC, only the global Blessing of the Zephyr pieces are unique; the others can be boosted to 50+5 just like PVP pieces)

 

Generally, all my single-target holds will start with a plan for 4xBasilisk's Gaze for the Global +Recharge. I am typically reluctant to try to turn a single-target hold into a 'proc monster'. I usually need slots elsewhere and I am happy enough with those set bonuses from 4-slots.

 

Confuse: Coercive Persuasion (Very Rare) offers good set bonuses across the board. My experience is that the %Contagious Confusion proc is generally wasted in AoE confuses (although FWIW it does improve the 'World of Confusion', as embarassed as I am to admit I know this). My preference would be to put this set in a single-target Confuse because of the proc.

 

Stuns: I've generally been happy with 5-slotting Stupefy for Global +Recharge. My experience has been that it is 'too easy' to get five other 10% Global +Recharge from other powers. Stuns aren't everybody's bag, I know.

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It really depends on what the goals of the build are.

 

Virtually all of my builds are going to have 5xLotG +recharge and 5xPurple +recharge.

 

On a purely ranged build, I'll normally try to soft-cap Ranged Def and maybe AoE Def. On a build intended to operate in melee range, I'll tend to go for typed defenses - normally involving Winter sets.

 

Your choice of Epic/Patron also matters a great deal, since it will shape how you deal damage - especially on an Electric Controller.

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On 5/21/2020 at 8:00 PM, Hjarki said:

[snip]

 

On a purely ranged build, I'll normally try to soft-cap Ranged Def and maybe AoE Def. On a build intended to operate in melee range, I'll tend to go for typed defenses - normally involving Winter sets.

 

[snip]

Pardon my ignorance and obvious ineptitude when it comes to high level slotting but is that actually possible, especially on a controller that has to rely on pool powers to get any defense?


As an atheist gamer, I don't believe in god mode

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Liam Neeson's Wet Socks said:

Pardon my ignorance and obvious ineptitude when it comes to high level slotting but is that actually possible, especially on a controller that has to rely on pool powers to get any defense?

 

Trollers are easy to cap Range Def. Both the Purple Confuse set and each of their ATO sets have Ranged Def. That's 12.5% there already. Easy access to Holds and Ranged attacks for Basilisk's Gaze (2 slot 1.25% 4 slot for an easy 7.5% recharge) and Thunder Strike (1.25% 2 slot 3.75% 6 slot) means even more Ranged Def. All Trollers have access to a recharge intensive pet for an easy Expediated Reinforcement for another easy 3.75% and more recharge.

 

12.5% + Basilisk Gaze x 2 (2.5%) + Thunder Strike (3.75) + Reinforcement (3.75) = 22.5%

 

Steadfast protection and Glad Armour = +6%

 

This is just there obvious ones there are plenty of other IO sets to get more range def.

 

Hover and Maneuvours = 5%+ (depending on how much def you slot)

 

33.5% and plenty of Secondaries have Def powers.

 

Edited by Maxzero

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19 minutes ago, Maxzero said:

 

All Trollers have access to a recharge intensive pet for an easy Expediated Reinforcement for another easy 3.75% and more recharge.

 

[snip]

 

33.5% and plenty of Secondaries have Def powers.

 

I'm currently working on a Mind/Emp controller, so those two options are unfortunately not available to this character.


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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Liam Neeson's Wet Socks said:

I'm currently working on a Mind/Emp controller, so those two options are unfortunately not available to this character.

 

3 Holds and 2 Confuses. 

 

Holds: Basilisk x 2, Entomb 5 slot. 5%

Malaise Illusions and Purple Confuse set. 8.13%

 

Multiple ranged attacks can get 2x Thunder Strike. Let's say 2 x 2 slot (put them with the Basilisk Gaze): 2.50% total.

 

Recovery Aura and Adrenaline boost can get the brand new End Mod set that just came from test servers called Preemptive Optimization which is on another level good for end mod powers. Gives recharge and ranged Def.

 

2 x 3.75% = 7.5%

 

So that's 7.5% + 8.13% + 5% + 2.50% = 23. 13%.

 

7.5% from ATOs puts you to to 30.63. Steadfast and Glad Armour for 6% puts you 36.63.

 

Maneuvours and Hover put you to somewhere 42 to 43%. Pretty close with just some napkin math.

 

Now this is just a rough framework showing you some options. Play around in Mids to test out some ideas.

 

This is how I make my builds. I have a goal for each build and once I reach it I then start trying to get to new objectives while maintaining what I already have.

Edited by Maxzero
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43 minutes ago, Maxzero said:

 

3 Holds and 2 Confuses. 

 

Holds: Basilisk x 2, Entomb 5 slot. 5%

Malaise Illusions and Purple Confuse set. 8.13%

 

Multiple ranged attacks can get 2x Thunder Strike. Let's say 2 x 2 slot (put them with the Basilisk Gaze): 2.50% total.

 

Recovery Aura and Adrenaline boost can get the brand new End Mod set that just came from test servers called Preemptive Optimization which is on another level good for end mod powers. Gives recharge and ranged Def.

 

2 x 3.75% = 7.5%

 

So that's 7.5% + 8.13% + 5% + 2.50% = 23. 13%.

 

7.5% from ATOs puts you to to 30.63. Steadfast and Glad Armour for 6% puts you 36.63.

 

Maneuvours and Hover put you to somewhere 42 to 43%. Pretty close with just some napkin math.

 

Now this is just a rough framework showing you some options. Play around in Mids to test out some ideas.

 

This is how I make my builds. I have a goal for each build and once I reach it I then start trying to get to new objectives while maintaining what I already have.

Threw together a variation on that and ended up at 44,37% ranged defense, with energy/negative at 35,94% and the rest at 20%. There's probably room to tweak the build a bit, but I won't do that here. I think we might've derailed the thread enough already :p But thanks for demonstrating how it can be done.

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As an atheist gamer, I don't believe in god mode

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2 hours ago, Liam Neeson's Wet Socks said:

Pardon my ignorance and obvious ineptitude when it comes to high level slotting but is that actually possible, especially on a controller that has to rely on pool powers to get any defense?

One thing missed is some controllers get a PBAoE def based toggle which obviously makes it easier for them. 


Without Pause Claws/wp brute, Nothing But Flowers Plant/storm, Waterpark Water/temp blaster, Sneakers StJ/en stalker,

Current obsession(s): Earth/earth dom, Rad/bio brute.

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My priority for set bonuses

  • +Recharge is top priority unless you're /Kin, then it's #2, because Kin will already get boatloads of +Recharge from using Siphon Speed on Cooldown.
  • +Ranged Defense is next, unless you're /Kin.  If you are /Kin, +Ranged Defense is 1 and the Recharge is 2
  • +Acc to All Powers is a tasty third priority.  Missing Sucks, esp if you're trying to stack lots of Hold mag on an EB/AV.
  • then probably Melee and AoE defense
  • then +Max HP
  • then +Max End

+Resist is never a bad thing, but it's more target-of-oppurtunity, squeaking it in where I can. 

exception:  the Shield Wall +5% res all and Reactive Armor Scaling Damage Resist (minimum of +3% res all) are both Too Good not to slot.  

 

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2 hours ago, Liam Neeson's Wet Socks said:

Pardon my ignorance and obvious ineptitude when it comes to high level slotting but is that actually possible, especially on a controller that has to rely on pool powers to get any defense?

generally you can get +Def as a 5 or 6 slot bonus to many Control IO sets.  Maybe your ATO's, maybe Hold sets (Lockdown), maybe a Confuse Set (Malaise?), etc.

And of course the two +3% defense all uniques.  And likely Combat Jumping or Stealth.

Weave or Manuevers are also options for more. 

 

I do not have my controller actually softcapped vs ranged defense.  But +30% defense still takes an *awful lot* off the top, and *enough* of the enemies miss him that he can lay down controls and stop most mobs from ever getting a second or third attack.  I also have like +55% resist to a few common damage types (smashing/lethal/psi), somewhat less if I exemplar down too low and don't get my epic armor toggle.

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2 hours ago, Liam Neeson's Wet Socks said:

Threw together a variation on that and ended up at 44,37% ranged defense, with energy/negative at 35,94% and the rest at 20%. There's probably room to tweak the build a bit, but I won't do that here. I think we might've derailed the thread enough already 😛 But thanks for demonstrating how it can be done.

 

Also, remember that depending on your other powers, you may not need Clarion from your Destiny slot. So you can plan on running Barrier, which is a minimum 5% to all Defenses... so if you can avoid the need for mez protection in some way (or minimize it by a combination of Rune of Protection and a few Break Frees, or Rune and Indomitable Will from the Psy epic), then you can effectively soft-cap with just 40%.

 

Also, one power with healing can take Numina's for 3.75%.

Thunderstrike's Defense bonus is at 3 slots, so if you go Basilisk/Thunderstrike you need 5 slots, BUT it also has a 2.5% bonus at 6 slots, so you could 6-slot Mesmerize for a total of 3.75%. Also, ranged AoEs now have access to Artillery set, which gives about 4% if you 6-slot it.

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25 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

Also, remember that depending on your other powers, you may not need Clarion from your Destiny slot. So you can plan on running Barrier, which is a minimum 5% to all Defenses... so if you can avoid the need for mez protection in some way (or minimize it by a combination of Rune of Protection and a few Break Frees, or Rune and Indomitable Will from the Psy epic), then you can effectively soft-cap with just 40%.

 

Also, one power with healing can take Numina's for 3.75%.

Thunderstrike's Defense bonus is at 3 slots, so if you go Basilisk/Thunderstrike you need 5 slots, BUT it also has a 2.5% bonus at 6 slots, so you could 6-slot Mesmerize for a total of 3.75%. Also, ranged AoEs now have access to Artillery set, which gives about 4% if you 6-slot it.

Well, crap... I completely forgot about the incarnate stuff. I haven't touched that content on any character yet. I do have the Psy epic in the build, but not the Sorcery pool. She's a mutant, not a mage. I'm the kind of silly person who builds characters based on themes :p

 

As for Numina's, I tend to put the unique in Health, along with Miracle's unique. I'd have to put something else there instead.

The Basilisk/Thunderstrike combo would have to go into Dominate since Mesmerize is a sleep. Mesmerize is currently 6-slotted with Thunderstrike though. Artillery could go into Total Domination or Terrify. The former of those two has Superior Will of the Controller 6-slotted at the moment, which gives +5% ranged defense. As for Terrify, I currently have it 5-slotted with Ragnarok... but I digress, and I'm derailing the thread again :s


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Posted (edited)

For me it's also strongly based on whether I intend to to solo a lot or team as to how much defense I aim for.

 

For the most part my 'defense' is +recharge+first strike (stealth) plus some defense.  If the mob is reeling from getting mezzed ... no return fire is a really solid 'defense'.  Actual defense then means further reducing return fire from the bosses and up while you get them mezzed if the opener didn't or missed (+acc, +to hit).  And on the occasion when the rng is really naughty inspires to quickly boost defense to the soft cap.

Edited by Doomguide2005
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37 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

For me it's also strongly based on whether I intend to to solo a lot or team as to how much defense I aim for.

 

For the most part my 'defense' is +recharge+first strike (stealth) plus some defense.  If the mob is reeling from getting mezzed ... no return fire is a really solid 'defense'.  Actual defense then means further reducing return fire from the bosses and up while you get them mezzed if the opener didn't or missed (+acc, +to hit).  And on the occasion when the rng is really naughty inspires to quickly boost defense to the soft cap.

QFT:   soloing, as a controller, you should be able to lock most things down fast enough, unless you're trying for x8's or something.  And when you're NOT soloing?  Well, then either the team likely has a tank or brute to take most of the brunt, and you don't need to worry about everythign targetting you, OR, the team probably has other support classes who may be handing out Defense buffs anyway.  I don't really need to have all 45% defense be native to MY character.  Just "close enough" that the FF Bubbles, or Ice Bubbles, or Widows, or stacked Manuevers, or Traps FF Bubble, or Steamy Mist, or Shadow Fall, or something, can make up the rest. 

 

Heck, I don't even care if "the rest" comes from a bunch of Dark Blasting or Darkest Night or Hurricane.  As long as the equation comes out right, it's all good.

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3 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

For the most part my 'defense' is +recharge+first strike (stealth) plus some defense.  If the mob is reeling from getting mezzed ... no return fire is a really solid 'defense'.  Actual defense then means further reducing return fire from the bosses and up while you get them mezzed if the opener didn't or missed (+acc, +to hit).  And on the occasion when the rng is really naughty inspires to quickly boost defense to the soft cap.

 

I have to put a BIG caution on this plan. I know that it is common, and I understand it, but I have this to say:

Characters who have always-on defenses that don't care if they attack first or not (basically, "armor" sets) can plan on initiating fights, or not initiating fights, and are fine either way.

Characters who need to initiate combat in order to have their defenses "active", because their defenses are generally strong debuffs or controls, do GREAT when they start off with control of the fight. These characters, and most Controllers are included, often don't need to slot for Recharge quite as much as they do, because in truth their controls and debuffs are fine enough even without min-maxing the highest amount of Recharge possible.

 

But you know when these characters have problems? When they don't initiate fights... a pet overaggros, you didn't see a spawn, you attack one spawn in a tight room and the AoE aggros another spawn, etc. Or, you run some tough content like First Ward/Night Ward where the mobs spawn in multiple ambushes and come looking for you. In these cases, it's Ranged Defense that will save you. Not Melee, because you generally have enough time to see and retreat from melee attackers.. but an ambush spawn coming around a corner and unloading on you when you weren't ready might kill you at high difficulty if you didn't mez them first. And take it from someone who runs Night Ward at high difficulty: those mobs are tough when you get the drop on them. When they get the drop on you, without good defenses, you're carpet.

 

Basically, if you want to keep to teaming or easier content, you don't need to worry so much about defenses, and Recharge is big. But as the difficulty goes up, the value of Recharge goes down (also because it takes longer to kill each spawn, so your AoE opener is ready for the next spawn with a 35 second recharge rather than needing a 28 second recharge like it might at a lower level)... but the value of Defense goes up because you will get more incoming fire, and it will hit more often and harder. You will get more fire because your controls and debuffs will be weaker, and also because the content will have more ambushes.

 

So, before you sell out on one kind of build or another, consider what you will be trying for: faster killing of easy content? You want Recharge, Recovery, and Damage. Survival against tougher content? You want Defense, then Recharge, and then a lot of other things like Recovery, Regen (if you don't have a self-heal), and more.

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And you raise excellent points @Coyotewhich is why I  said it makes a difference depending on team vs solo.  I should have added what sort foes you typically take on as well.  And again that's more critical when you are solo than teamed (and scales up, rapidly, with team size).  I'm probably also guilty of viewing it a bit too much through the lens of Earth control and that sets superb ability to control multiple foes/areas such as in the case of multiple ambushes you mentioned.  Capped defense does mean less worry about over aggro, pet aggro occurring or otherwise getting in over your head.

 

As for being able to initiate combat that's why and what I use stealth for personally.  Often using SS and a +Stealth IO ... just need to stay aware of which foes either ignore stealth or have +perception. 

 

And lastly we get multiple builds.  Use them.   Be all defensive with one, the other more based on recharge.  Team vs solo.

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2 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

And lastly we get multiple builds.  Use them.   Be all defensive with one, the other more based on recharge.  Team vs solo.

 

That's really good advice, if you have the money... one teaming build and one solo build removes a lot of the issues in trying to squeeze out the best builds. If you know you won't need Speed Boost in one build, and in the other build you expect that you'll have teammates taking the alpha, it really frees you up to make something impressive rather than having to make sure all the holes are filled.

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7 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

That's really good advice, if you have the money... one teaming build and one solo build removes a lot of the issues in trying to squeeze out the best builds. If you know you won't need Speed Boost in one build, and in the other build you expect that you'll have teammates taking the alpha, it really frees you up to make something impressive rather than having to make sure all the holes are filled.

Not only expensive because you have to get separate enhancements for the different builds, but if I understood the wiki correctly you also have to level up the character twice.


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Posted (edited)

No unless things have changed you don't need to level your character up again by doing content.  Probably (without taking a peek myself) what they are talking about is more like what you do when doing a respec.  You "level" your character up to their current level rechoosing powers and slots as you go but it's done all at once at the trainer not by running content.  

 

Just went and read the article and I can see why you find that confusing.  The part that I'd focus on is when the article talks about how each build has the same amount of experience.  And yes one of the downsides is the expense of maintaining 2 or even 3 builds.  

Edited by Doomguide2005
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2 hours ago, Liam Neeson's Wet Socks said:

Not only expensive because you have to get separate enhancements for the different builds, but if I understood the wiki correctly you also have to level up the character twice.

 

No, you just sign up the character for an alternate build, and maintain them (with IOs) separately. Yeah, it's expensive, AND it's annoying to do the shopping, do twice the work on respecs, and so on. But it does help a lot if you're going to both team and solo with the same character. It's probably not worth the time and expense if you're going to solo 80% or team 80% of the time, but if you split more evenly it may be a way to have two good builds.

 

Ironically, now that I think about it, it may be a way to run a CHEAPER build. You may be more effective as a teaming character by taking team-centric powers and slotting them up for the team, even with relatively cheap sets (like don't bother with purples, use Entropic Chaos and Positron if you need Recharge boosts, etc), than by trying the make the One Build to Rule Them All, but having to use multiple purple and winter sets in order to have it be effective for both soloing and teaming. Basically, it's cheaper to run two builds without purples than a single build with purples.

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21 hours ago, MTeague said:

I do not have my controller actually softcapped vs ranged defense.  But +30% defense still takes an *awful lot* off the top, and *enough* of the enemies miss him that he can lay down controls and stop most mobs from ever getting a second or third attack. 

This is good advice; I think it applies to more than just Controllers. With resists close to nil a 30% Defense is reducing the amount of potential damage by ~18%. If I have a caveat it is that if the incoming attacks are Mez, then a Controller could be in trouble (again, solo). The most trouble my Controller has ever had on teams was from large enemy spawns which Mez. My share of the blame is that I'm quick with my (AoE) controls; the teams' share of the blame is allowing the Controller to be faster than a Hovering Controller.

 

'Soft Capping' Defenses is obviously good, but primarily for x8 content because it is unlikely that player AoE will be able to defeat/control the enemies before they can strike back. Player builds that can otherwise defeat/control (or resist/heal) enemies will be fine for a majority of game content. Corner cases like solo GM/AV fights are a different matter, of course.

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