Balance this game for the love of all things that are good and great

[Chance Jackson]

4 minutes ago, RCPK said:

Yep keep laughing. In fact, it was so funny that the game shut down all those years ago. And it's no wonder, because nobody had the proper vision of making this game the master piece it should be. 

 

PvP whether you like it or not, is something that MANY people would enjoy doing, and enjoy it more were it more balanced.

 

I could take snipes at all you PvErs but I enjoy PvE also, I don't hate it. That's the difference between being a knucklehead and being grounded in reason, being able to see above the trees. 

'grounded in reason' yeah ok ben shapiro

[skoryy]

5 minutes ago, RCPK said:

Yep keep laughing. In fact, it was so funny that the game shut down all those years ago. And it's no wonder, because nobody had the proper vision of making this game the master piece it should be. 

 

PvP whether you like it or not, is something that MANY people would enjoy doing, and enjoy it more were it more balanced.

 

I could take snipes at all you PvErs but I enjoy PvE also, I don't hate it. That's the difference between being a knucklehead and being grounded in reason, being able to see above the trees. 

Thank you for giving us such a vivid example of why there is such a thing as 'lolpvp'.

[Balancethegame]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

I have no idea what server you are on, but I can say with confidence there is a great variety in ATs and power set combinations running about in RV here on Torchbearer.  I do not see this great imbalance you are referring to. 

Alright genius. 

 

Here is my logic: 

 

Making powersets more similar in terms of damage and losing the focus on mitigation for blasters = blasters dont worry about the numbers behind the powersets or which one is better or worse than the other, they pick the powerset that they like based on theme = blasters focus more on what they are meant for, DAMAGE DEALING NOT MITIGATION. 

[FrauleinMental]

3 minutes ago, RCPK said:

Alright genius. 

 

Here is my logic: 

 

Making powersets more similar in terms of damage and losing the focus on mitigation for blasters = blasters dont worry about the numbers behind the powersets or which one is better or worse than the other, they pick the powerset that they like based on theme = blasters focus more on what they are meant for, DAMAGE DEALING NOT MITIGATION. 

Then why not just remove damage types and secondary effects altogether?  Make all powersets irrelevant, so all you can really choose are Tank, Heal, DPS.

[Balancethegame]

6 minutes ago, skoryy said:

Thank you for giving us such a vivid example of why there is such a thing as 'lolpvp'.

 

MOO MOO PVP BAD. MOO.

 

[justicebeliever]

9 minutes ago, RCPK said:

PvP whether you like it or not, is something that MANY people would enjoy doing, and enjoy it more were it more balanced.

I have no doubt that this is true.  But what you suggest would destroy the game for 10X as many players who don't enjoy PvP and play it exclusively for the PvE content.

 

That said, if you have specific suggestions, the developers do make PvP specific tweaks to bring more balance to the game, and PvP powers are somewhat divorced from PvE powers.

 

That said however, you'd need more than a Point of View to convince the developers to make a change to PvP powers, you'd need some data to go with your suggestion.

[Chance Jackson]

1 minute ago, RCPK said:

Alright genius. 

 

Here is my logic: 

 

Making powersets more similar in terms of damage and losing the focus on mitigation for blasters = blasters dont worry about the numbers behind the powersets or which one is better or worse than the other, they pick the powerset that they like based on theme = blasters focus more on what they are meant for, DAMAGE DEALING NOT MITIGATION. 

Hardest of Hard Passes, No Homogenization!

 

Allowing different sets to have their own flavor & appeal makes the game more interesting not less.

 

PVPers can just continue to chose PVP competitive sets for PVP

[Balancethegame]

1 minute ago, FrauleinMental said:

Then why not just remove damage types and secondary effects altogether?  Make all powersets irrelevant, so all you can really choose are Tank, Heal, DPS.

Because of THEMES. 

 

By contrast, imagine if the origins all had different stats. And MAGIC happened to be the most powerful, because let's face it - it would be and usually is. Or imagine if the HUGE body set did more physical damage than the average body set. 

[Balancethegame]

3 minutes ago, Chance Jackson said:

Hardest of Hard Passes, No Homogenization!

 

Allowing different sets to have their own flavor & appeal makes the game more interesting not less.

 

PVPers can just continue to chose PVP competitive sets for PVP

But that makes PvP less accessible, not more. Because if there are competitive sets for PvP, then that means the effectiveness of the other sets is lesser. So now you lock out several people from the PvP race.

[ShardWarrior]

12 minutes ago, RCPK said:

Making powersets more similar in terms of damage and losing the focus on mitigation for blasters = blasters dont worry about the numbers behind the powersets or which one is better or worse than the other, they pick the powerset that they like based on theme

If this were true and following your logic, we would only ever see Fire blasters.  This simply is not the case and people are indeed choosing what they want to play based on theme. 

[Balancethegame]

11 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

I have no doubt that this is true.  But what you suggest would destroy the game for 10X as many players who don't enjoy PvP and play it exclusively for the PvE content.

 

That said, if you have specific suggestions, the developers do make PvP specific tweaks to bring more balance to the game, and PvP powers are somewhat divorced from PvE powers.

 

That said however, you'd need more than a Point of View to convince the developers to make a change to PvP powers, you'd need some data to go with your suggestion.

The data is available for all to see when making a character. You can clearly get a good idea that fire blasters would easily dominate in PvP based on the DPAs alone. 

 

Fire Blaster
Single Target Rotation (4 powers from the main set)
Damage = 633
Activation Time = 7 seconds
Endurance Cost = 34

 

Electric
Single Target Rotation
Damage = 508
Activation Time = 7 seconds
Endurance Cost = 33

 

Edit I believe this is PvE data actually. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by RCPK

[AerialAssault]

Sorry buddy you missed your chance, "balance" threads have to be made on Monday. 

[Chance Jackson]

5 minutes ago, RCPK said:

But that makes PvP less accessible, not more. Because if there are competitive sets for PvP, then that means the effectiveness of the other sets is lesser. So now you lock out several people from the PvP race.

This is not a PVP first game, it's PVE First. To homogenize power sets along PVP lines would be entirely disruptive & steal away the appeal of the vast majority already existing toons

Edited June 2, 2020 by Chance Jackson

[SwitchFade]

Sorry, I'm going to have to no vote the OP.

 

Overall, the game is balanced fine  further, this "hundreds of points" of difference referenced is perceptual bias.

 

A very few things may need adjusting, but overall the game is fine.

[justicebeliever]

2 minutes ago, RCPK said:

But that makes PvP less accessible, not more. Because if there are competitive sets for PvP, then that means the effectiveness of the other sets is lesser. So now you lock out several people from the PvP race.

I want to be fair here.  What you said is a partially true statement.  This does make it less accessible.  But it doesn't lock anyone out of the PvP race.  People who really want to PvP, and want to PvP well can do the research right here on the forums, in the PvP forums and find builds that are PvP competitive.  Just because one character can't make it work out, doesn't mean that the the 999 slots you have can't be adjusted to get the build you want for PvP. 

 

But the game is about more than PvP, and was always designed for the PvE player first and foremost.  And overwhelmingly, that's the players you have in the game:  PvE players who could care less about PvP.

[Redlynne]

22 minutes ago, RCPK said:

Yep keep laughing. In fact, it was so funny that the game shut down all those years ago. And it's no wonder, because nobody had the proper vision of making this game the master piece it should be.

Credibility Loss now exceeds TOTAL.

 

/thread

[Balancethegame]

3 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Sorry, I'm going to have to no vote the OP.

 

Overall, the game is balanced fine  further, this "hundreds of points" of difference referenced is perceptual bias.

 

A very few things may need adjusting, but overall the game is fine.

100 point single target rotation damage difference clearly and OBJECTIVELY defined in my post above. 

[Balancethegame]

2 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Credibility Loss now exceeds TOTAL.

 

/thread

Let's not forget your wonderful signature. How INcredible is that? 

[Balancethegame]

5 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Sorry, I'm going to have to no vote the OP.

 

Overall, the game is balanced fine  further, this "hundreds of points" of difference referenced is perceptual bias.

 

A very few things may need adjusting, but overall the game is fine.

While there are people asking about which build is the best, etc then you CANNOT say the game is balanced. 

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, RCPK said:

100 point single target rotation damage difference clearly and OBJECTIVELY defined in my post above. 

Sorry man, this whole thread spiraled. I'm sorry to say, your proposition was tenuous at first, but it's untenable now. Still no vote.

[Balancethegame]

5 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

I want to be fair here.  What you said is a partially true statement.  This does make it less accessible.  But it doesn't lock anyone out of the PvP race.  People who really want to PvP, and want to PvP well can do the research right here on the forums, in the PvP forums and find builds that are PvP competitive.  Just because one character can't make it work out, doesn't mean that the the 999 slots you have can't be adjusted to get the build you want for PvP. 

 

But the game is about more than PvP, and was always designed for the PvE player first and foremost.  And overwhelmingly, that's the players you have in the game:  PvE players who could care less about PvP.

It does not lock out anyone, true, but it certainly makes it less fun and appealing knowing that your electric/electric blaster stands little chance against some of the better meta builds out there, wouldn't you agree?

[Balancethegame]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

Sorry man, this whole thread spiraled. I'm sorry to say, your proposition was tenuous at first, but it's untenable now. Still no vote.

And I've yet to hear a GOOD reason why not. 

[justicebeliever]

3 minutes ago, RCPK said:

The data is available for all to see when making a character. You can clearly get a good idea that fire blasters would easily dominate in PvP based on the DPAs alone. 

Clearly, some people think the End Drain aspect of electricity compensates for the lack of damage this.  That said, why not make a specific post asking to increase the Damage Output of Electrical for PvP.  Again, the outputs between PvE and PvP are divorced, so it could be increased only for PvP.  It accomplishes your goal without sacrificing the enjoyment of the PvE playerbase.

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, RCPK said:

You can clearly get a good idea that fire blasters would easily dominate in PvP based on the DPAs alone.

And what is the DPS for them when they are mezzed and/or completely drained of END?  I grant you I am a novice at PvP, but I do know for sure there is more to it than straight damage - especially in a team setting.

[SwitchFade]

Just now, RCPK said:

And I've yet to hear a GOOD reason why not. 

You did, you just think they're not good. It's cool, to each their own.

 

However, I am starting to feel as though I'm getting my leg pulled here...

 

Let's nerf Regen.