[Afterburner] +def -fly protection ... only effecting self?

[Burnt Toast]

10 minutes ago, Joshex said:

I have 2 SL res powers and a large amount of regen and recovery. it's never going to reach the 75% res cap, not even close the powersets and attack types just don't support that, it's grueling to get the bonuses to get it and we aren't talking much.. so the best it can do is pump out def. luckily I will eventually have a def boosting power from my secondary. but yeah I need other options for def. I know munitions has lower def than hover, stealth, combat jumping, and invis. on a tank I would normally pick combat jumping. I could still sacrifice haste and get combat jumping instead. then have both. but, we'll see.

 

I'm well aware of my options, and avoiding damage seems the best possible outcome.

Munitions: Body Armor has NO Defense only a mediocre resistance to S/L. If you are trying to up your DEFENSE then yes you should consider taking Combat Jumping (2.7%) Kick/Tough/Weave - Slot the 2 +3% Def procs in Tough and 3-4 slot Weave. You can also take Maneuvers which will increase your Defense for another 3-4%. 

So with all that you would have a base of 17.5-18% Defense to everything. 

5% more with 6 slot Superior Blaster Wraith to ranged Def

2.5 with 6 slot Superior Defiant Barrage

3.75% Ranged Defense with Every 6 slot of Thunderstrike

4.07% Ranged Defense with 6 slotted Artillery

 

Depending on your 4th power pick you can also add defense Another 2.7% from Hover which would put your base at 20-21% Ranged Defense with Combat Jumping, Hover, Weave, Maneuvers + the 2 3% IOs.

Adding another 24-25% is not that difficult to get you to the Softcap of Ranged. If you take Scorpion Shield this will greatly increase your S/L/E Defense. 

 

There are already NUMEROUS ways to increase your characters' defense... which does not require the complete breaking of a power that has been in the game and working as intended. 

 

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Burnt Toast said:

Just from the way you are talking about defense etc... I have a feeling you are not built well... especially considering you went with Munitions. THIS could easily be your problem - a bad build - you may want to get others to look at your actual build and offer you advice to help make your blaster sturdier. 

No one really wants to hear that their build is bad.  Personally, it's not about whether a build is good or bad but does it accomplish what you built it to do.  A build can be good and have 0 def.  If the build is aiming to amass lots of def in combat though, Afterburner is not the power for that.

29 minutes ago, Joshex said:

I'm well aware of my options, and avoiding damage seems the best possible outcome.

There's other options besides def for that.  The other options are mez/debuff and damage.

 

I've got a Beam Rifle/Temp blaster that doesn't have any defense but he sure can destroy a boss in complete safety thanks to the combination of knockdown, stun and the absurd DPA of its attacks thanks to the disintegration effect.  You can also get quite a bit of control effects even if you're not Plant, Atomic Manipulation or Tactical Arrow.

[Burnt Toast]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

No one really wants to hear that their build is bad.  Personally, it's not about whether a build is good or bad but does it accomplish what you built it to do.  A build can be good and have 0 def.  If the build is aiming to amass lots of def in combat though, Afterburner is not the power for that.

There's other options besides def for that.  The other options are mez/debuff and damage.

 

I've got a Beam Rifle/Temp blaster that doesn't have any defense but he sure can destroy a boss in complete safety thanks to the combination of knockdown, stun and the absurd DPA of its attacks thanks to the disintegration effect.  You can also get quite a bit of control effects even if you're not Plant, Atomic Manipulation or Tactical Arrow.

And he said his build was not accomplishing what he wanted. People may not want to hear their build is bad, but if it is not working out....then the build is the first thing I would look at - especially if you are having trouble gaining certain set bonuses/aspects. 

[Joshex]

33 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

Munitions: Body Armor has NO Defense only a mediocre resistance to S/L. If you are trying to up your DEFENSE then yes you should consider taking Combat Jumping (2.7%) Kick/Tough/Weave - Slot the 2 +3% Def procs in Tough and 3-4 slot Weave. You can also take Maneuvers which will increase your Defense for another 3-4%. 

So with all that you would have a base of 17.5-18% Defense to everything. 

5% more with 6 slot Superior Blaster Wraith to ranged Def

2.5 with 6 slot Superior Defiant Barrage

3.75% Ranged Defense with Every 6 slot of Thunderstrike

4.07% Ranged Defense with 6 slotted Artillery

 

Depending on your 4th power pick you can also add defense Another 2.7% from Hover which would put your base at 20-21% Ranged Defense with Combat Jumping, Hover, Weave, Maneuvers + the 2 3% IOs.

Adding another 24-25% is not that difficult to get you to the Softcap of Ranged. If you take Scorpion Shield this will greatly increase your S/L/E Defense. 

 

There are already NUMEROUS ways to increase your characters' defense... which does not require the complete breaking of a power that has been in the game and working as intended. 

 

Nice list. not to nitpick or argue, I can tell this quest for Afterburner in combat is going nowhere.

 

I have tough weave, invisibility and stealth (but stealth can't be used while invis is on so it's just for low level stuff) and leadership's maneuvers. munitions was for the body armor auto power and Surveillance and the LRM rocket. already using blaster's wrath, Defiant Barrage doesn't come up for any of my powers in mids. decided to go for damage bonuses instead of thunderstrike because.. yeah I'm lacking in damage, and the damage bonuses only need 2 to 4 slots to get them instead of 6. None of my powers show Artillery as a choice in mids.

[Burnt Toast]

1 minute ago, Joshex said:

Nice list. not to nitpick or argue, I can tell this quest for Afterburner in combat is going nowhere.

 

I have tough weave, invisibility and stealth (but stealth can't be used while invis is on so it's just for low level stuff) and leadership's maneuvers. munitions was for the body armor auto power and Surveillance and the LRM rocket. already using blaster's wrath, Defiant Barrage doesn't come up for any of my powers in mids. decided to go for damage bonuses instead of thunderstrike because.. yeah I'm lacking in damage, and the damage bonuses only need 2 to 4 slots to get them instead of 6. None of my powers show Artillery as a choice in mids.

Have you updated your mids since the beginning of April? Artillery is for AoE Powers. 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

14 minutes ago, Joshex said:

Nice list. not to nitpick or argue, I can tell this quest for Afterburner in combat is going nowhere.

 

I have tough weave, invisibility and stealth (but stealth can't be used while invis is on so it's just for low level stuff) and leadership's maneuvers. munitions was for the body armor auto power and Surveillance and the LRM rocket. already using blaster's wrath, Defiant Barrage doesn't come up for any of my powers in mids. decided to go for damage bonuses instead of thunderstrike because.. yeah I'm lacking in damage, and the damage bonuses only need 2 to 4 slots to get them instead of 6. None of my powers show Artillery as a choice in mids.

Ah the good old days. sorry but that is what your build reminds me of from the sound of it, a lot of my early era blasters that I built like they were scrappers. A blaster does need layers, but not the same layers as a head on type.

 

Now your elec/elec right? that is your build thematic/rp goal or whatevs if I gather right. Well I wont disagree that of all the blaster sets elec has a real quandry. the 2ndary by its nature is really meant for sappers, and sapping is really only gonna do what it does well when your all in on sapping, which comes at a real dps cost. I mean if you slot every blast for end drain you might feel like it works but the loss of DPS for a blaster is intolerable.

 

So then why ever even elec as a blaster then? Well because elec powers can take end set related procs. In the offensive sapper sets that can include usueful dps or cc procs, and well we all know the love of Performance Shifter in any powers that can take one.

 

If I was for RP/Thematic reasons driven to persue another elec blaster( my very first blaster was elec/fire and even in year one the dps on elec was so lacking I tended to use fire sword circle more then my nuke) Id focus on those aspects, proc monster it best you can and exploit the fact you will have tons of end coming in. Leadership toggles great, if you team veng for sure. Stealth pool also a good option but imo only if your going to take phase shift. IMO phase shift is a very underappreciated oh shit button power, and one blasters especially can leverage as a nuke then phase has been a classic way to avoid the aggro after a nuke to let a tank re aggro without having the blaster eat dirt more often then not in the process.

 

So yeah leadership and stealth will net you 4 lotg slots to fill for recharge, and while invis/stealth are more redundant now, you can always choose grant invis over stealth, so you can buff allies for fast stealth rushing to elevators etc safe enough. Still acts as an lotg mule and when teaming might get a tad bit of use. I often veng, use a res ally temp, then invis them right after so they can fall back abit safer.

 

It of course depends on your play style if you team most of the time powers like the leadership toggles and veng have little value to a build imo.

[Wavicle]

If you can't solo +4/x1 on a lvl 50 Blaster then there is something wrong with either your build or your play.

[Joshex]

1 hour ago, Burnt Toast said:

Have you updated your mids since the beginning of April? Artillery is for AoE Powers. 

Nope, I haven't updated mids since shutdown as well. So.. I might be missing some new things. I'll take a look at the sets you mentioned, I'll have to weigh their value against the powers and bonuses I have, I've capped regen and I'm like 2 points from capping damage. it's not perfect. yeah I'll consider some things.

 

2 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Ah the good old days. sorry but that is what your build reminds me of from the sound of it, a lot of my early era blasters that I built like they were scrappers. A blaster does need layers, but not the same layers as a head on type.

 

Now your elec/elec right? that is your build thematic/rp goal or whatevs if I gather right. Well I wont disagree that of all the blaster sets elec has a real quandry. the 2ndary by its nature is really meant for sappers, and sapping is really only gonna do what it does well when your all in on sapping, which comes at a real dps cost. I mean if you slot every blast for end drain you might feel like it works but the loss of DPS for a blaster is intolerable.

 

So then why ever even elec as a blaster then? Well because elec powers can take end set related procs. In the offensive sapper sets that can include usueful dps or cc procs, and well we all know the love of Performance Shifter in any powers that can take one.

 

If I was for RP/Thematic reasons driven to persue another elec blaster( my very first blaster was elec/fire and even in year one the dps on elec was so lacking I tended to use fire sword circle more then my nuke) Id focus on those aspects, proc monster it best you can and exploit the fact you will have tons of end coming in. Leadership toggles great, if you team veng for sure. Stealth pool also a good option but imo only if your going to take phase shift. IMO phase shift is a very underappreciated oh shit button power, and one blasters especially can leverage as a nuke then phase has been a classic way to avoid the aggro after a nuke to let a tank re aggro without having the blaster eat dirt more often then not in the process.

 

So yeah leadership and stealth will net you 4 lotg slots to fill for recharge, and while invis/stealth are more redundant now, you can always choose grant invis over stealth, so you can buff allies for fast stealth rushing to elevators etc safe enough. Still acts as an lotg mule and when teaming might get a tad bit of use. I often veng, use a res ally temp, then invis them right after so they can fall back abit safer.

 

It of course depends on your play style if you team most of the time powers like the leadership toggles and veng have little value to a build imo.

electric/energy. I'm at no loss of end most of the time. Just at lower levels which doesn't bother me too much.

 

I was going to LOTG a lot but usually I only do it for the def, recharge and regen bonuses, with regen capped 50% of the time this is no longer an issue. This allowed me to save slots for other places and just slot the def/global rech on stealth and veng. others are 4 slotted or 5 slotted.

 

regen alone wont keep it alive, especially only 50% of the time., at that point damage needs to be weighed evenly with defense with whatever res I can get without too much effort. that was the focus. Res is good, but as I learned with invul tanking, being able to take a hit and maybe heal afterwards, isn't as good as taking less hits then healing..

 

Phase shift, only effecting self. yeah, you're untouchable, has it's perks as described, but then it leaves you out of action for a bit. I'd rather be all action more kills, retreat if necessary, pop some insps and slam them again. a bit more def and that'd work. so.. we'll see. I might end up killing hasten. Go tell that to the guy in the nerf hasten thread. with the amount of recharge time powers and lotgs I have I probably don't need it anyways and it would be some extra def. which i'll be needing.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

21 minutes ago, Joshex said:

Nope, I haven't updated mids since shutdown as well. So.. I might be missing some new things. I'll take a look at the sets you mentioned, I'll have to weigh their value against the powers and bonuses I have, I've capped regen and I'm like 2 points from capping damage. it's not perfect. yeah I'll consider some things.

 

electric/energy. I'm at no loss of end most of the time. Just at lower levels which doesn't bother me too much.

 

I was going to LOTG a lot but usually I only do it for the def, recharge and regen bonuses, with regen capped 50% of the time this is no longer an issue. This allowed me to save slots for other places and just slot the def/global rech on stealth and veng. others are 4 slotted or 5 slotted.

 

regen alone wont keep it alive, especially only 50% of the time., at that point damage needs to be weighed evenly with defense with whatever res I can get without too much effort. that was the focus. Res is good, but as I learned with invul tanking, being able to take a hit and maybe heal afterwards, isn't as good as taking less hits then healing..

 

Phase shift, only effecting self. yeah, you're untouchable, has it's perks as described, but then it leaves you out of action for a bit. I'd rather be all action more kills, retreat if necessary, pop some insps and slam them again. a bit more def and that'd work. so.. we'll see. I might end up killing hasten. Go tell that to the guy in the nerf hasten thread. with the amount of recharge time powers and lotgs I have I probably don't need it anyways and it would be some extra def. which i'll be needing.

I absolutely concur with your consideration to drop hasten. Unless you have particular need for extreme recharge for some specific power( drain psyche being my big one) then hasten is indeed a rather wasted power and if that was all you wanted from the speed pool, def having a full pool option free can really expand your options. This is imo especially true for blasters. While a super recharge build can let your nuke do a lot more heavy lifting, it comes at the cost of recharge being your focus. A focus on def and dmg res sets and even sets that reduce the duration of mez effects on you can all lead to some strong survival build potential. And ofcourse as a blaster you will have more then enough attacks for a full chain rotation.

 

There is also the choice of team utility but it sounds like your really pushing for a solo centric focus as your benchmark. In examplea  TF team that is trying to keep the pace up a build that includes the ability to stealth and recall will be more valued and loved by most tf teams then another pure killer. Personally my approach when solo with a blaster is more like a stalker, avoid needless conflicts, take out priority targets, and get in and out quick and clean.

[Joshex]

12 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I absolutely concur with your consideration to drop hasten. Unless you have particular need for extreme recharge for some specific power( drain psyche being my big one) then hasten is indeed a rather wasted power and if that was all you wanted from the speed pool, def having a full pool option free can really expand your options. This is imo especially true for blasters. While a super recharge build can let your nuke do a lot more heavy lifting, it comes at the cost of recharge being your focus. A focus on def and dmg res sets and even sets that reduce the duration of mez effects on you can all lead to some strong survival build potential. And ofcourse as a blaster you will have more then enough attacks for a full chain rotation.

 

There is also the choice of team utility but it sounds like your really pushing for a solo centric focus as your benchmark. In examplea  TF team that is trying to keep the pace up a build that includes the ability to stealth and recall will be more valued and loved by most tf teams then another pure killer. Personally my approach when solo with a blaster is more like a stalker, avoid needless conflicts, take out priority targets, and get in and out quick and clean.

the energy manipulation secondary power  Energize, I have no idea why Mids and Paragon Wiki refer to it as "Conserve Power" and say it only grants an end discount, where mids says that but acknowledges it also grants regen.

 

but yeah hasten right now is keeping that coming back more often. then again that's without LOTGS atm so we'll see later. in the future hasten will also effect Power Boost's recharge rate, from which I'll be getting some Def boosts for a short while. so keeping that on recharge would be wise.

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Joshex said:

the energy manipulation secondary power  Energize, I have no idea why Mids and Paragon Wiki refer to it as "Conserve Power" and say it only grants an end discount, where mids says that but acknowledges it also grants regen.

 

but yeah hasten right now is keeping that coming back more often. then again that's without LOTGS atm so we'll see later. in the future hasten will also effect Power Boost's recharge rate, from which I'll be getting some Def boosts for a short while. so keeping that on recharge would be wise.

The reason why is that prior to i24 it WAS Conserve Power.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Wavicle

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

2 hours ago, Joshex said:

the energy manipulation secondary power  Energize, I have no idea why Mids and Paragon Wiki refer to it as "Conserve Power" and say it only grants an end discount, where mids says that but acknowledges it also grants regen.

 

but yeah hasten right now is keeping that coming back more often. then again that's without LOTGS atm so we'll see later. in the future hasten will also effect Power Boost's recharge rate, from which I'll be getting some Def boosts for a short while. so keeping that on recharge would be wise.

Its no mystery global recharge and the power sets that best leverage them are among my faves by now on these forums. So I totally get what your saying about not wanting to toss it out. Im just not sure if the powers your using over all are enough to make recharge a worthwhile focus for you. On my namesake here for example my global recharge nets me perma drain psyche which off a fat group will keep me at max end recovery and around 100 hp a second regen. On top of layers of cc effects, Force of nature for when I have to go in like a tank, I stealth around to get into groups before I hit my DP. Basically its stealth in DP,Nuke, mop up move on.

 

Oh if it doesnt hurt your thematic, consider the sorcery pool. Rune of pro is bloody amazing on blasters imo asa  way to help deal with CC during the leveling era before clarion is an option. Also a nice bit of dmg res.

 

Now something I dont know if has been mentioned but soft def vs soft res, no few I know like myself favor soft res. What do I mean by soft? Its a term usually applied to def and res that comes from sources that does not include debuff resistance. Now the thing is unless you way over soft cap on soft def, a single good debuff attack landing will cause a debuff cascade. Once soft def fails, it tends to fold completely. Where as soft dmg res, while reduced from debuffs is not a good thing, usually does not get debuffed all the way to 0 offering some modest mitigation still.

 

My standard for builds no matter the AT if meant to be a super human is the rularuu faction in the shadow shard. between their mixture of debuffs, cc effects, and dmg mixture I to this day feel it is those who can go run around the race track of the storm palace that are the real cosmic class builds of the game.

 

Out of curiosity is this elec/energy blaster based on an RP thematic? or just a power combo you really like and are driven to try and make work as good as it can?

[Replacement]

I kind of skimmed through most of this. Apologies for all the nuance missed.

 

About Afterburner itself, I rather like how it is but  I will acknowledge it's unwieldy to use. For a long while I was enjoying using it to break the alpha or for herding on a /Regen toon.  It's a big big chunk of defense.

 

Things I would consider changing:

1) it would certainly feel better if it required one power instead of 2. 

2) I'm not sold on it, but perhaps it would be more usable if the defense bonus suppressed when you attacked, instead of Only Affects Self.

 

And against my better judgement, I feel the need to once again stir up shit:

Most of the same voices saying "fix your build" can probably be found elsewhere protecting people's rights to build how they want and bragging how this game tends to work regardless of build.

It feels like a politician pivot: "I am not interested in fixing a thing but that would sound subjective so let's see if I can blame you instead."

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I kind of skimmed through most of this. Apologies for all the nuance missed.

 

About Afterburner itself, I rather like how it is but  I will acknowledge it's unwieldy to use. For a long while I was enjoying using it to break the alpha or for herding on a /Regen toon.  It's a big big chunk of defense.

 

Things I would consider changing:

1) it would certainly feel better if it required one power instead of 2. 

2) I'm not sold on it, but perhaps it would be more usable if the defense bonus suppressed when you attacked, instead of Only Affects Self.

 

And against my better judgement, I feel the need to once again stir up shit:

Most of the same voices saying "fix your build" can probably be found elsewhere protecting people's rights to build how they want and bragging how this game tends to work regardless of build.

It feels like a politician pivot: "I am not interested in fixing a thing but that would sound subjective so let's see if I can blame you instead."

Play however you like.  The issue is coming in and suggesting a major change to make a pool power that has been working well for what it does substantially overpowered when there are perfectly viable ways already to achieve what the OP wants to achieve... which is a Blaster with soft-capped defense that can solo missions at +4x1.  So yes, the issue is with the OP’s build.  That is just a fact.

[Joshex]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Its no mystery global recharge and the power sets that best leverage them are among my faves by now on these forums. So I totally get what your saying about not wanting to toss it out. Im just not sure if the powers your using over all are enough to make recharge a worthwhile focus for you. On my namesake here for example my global recharge nets me perma drain psyche which off a fat group will keep me at max end recovery and around 100 hp a second regen. On top of layers of cc effects, Force of nature for when I have to go in like a tank, I stealth around to get into groups before I hit my DP. Basically its stealth in DP,Nuke, mop up move on.

 

Oh if it doesnt hurt your thematic, consider the sorcery pool. Rune of pro is bloody amazing on blasters imo asa  way to help deal with CC during the leveling era before clarion is an option. Also a nice bit of dmg res.

 

Now something I dont know if has been mentioned but soft def vs soft res, no few I know like myself favor soft res. What do I mean by soft? Its a term usually applied to def and res that comes from sources that does not include debuff resistance. Now the thing is unless you way over soft cap on soft def, a single good debuff attack landing will cause a debuff cascade. Once soft def fails, it tends to fold completely. Where as soft dmg res, while reduced from debuffs is not a good thing, usually does not get debuffed all the way to 0 offering some modest mitigation still.

 

My standard for builds no matter the AT if meant to be a super human is the rularuu faction in the shadow shard. between their mixture of debuffs, cc effects, and dmg mixture I to this day feel it is those who can go run around the race track of the storm palace that are the real cosmic class builds of the game.

 

Out of curiosity is this elec/energy blaster based on an RP thematic? or just a power combo you really like and are driven to try and make work as good as it can?

it's my original toon I spent close to all of 5 years on the floor with back in 2006 to 2010 before I finally decided to give it a rest and make other ATs.

 

I've considered the sorcery pool, but it doesn't show in old mids.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Joshex

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

Things I would consider changing:

1) it would certainly feel better if it required one power instead of 2. 

2) I'm not sold on it, but perhaps it would be more usable if the defense bonus suppressed when you attacked, instead of Only Affects Self.

Kind of apprehensive about 1. as revising a lot of pools that way might be kind of power creeping.

 

For 2. is there any effects that suppress only when you attack?  AFAIK, there is no mode for that and it's why Stalker Hide gets big AoE def, because their stealth (and all stealth) suppresses *when you enter combat* which doesn't require you to use any attacks. 

 

EDIT: Just double checked since I hadn't used /devices on a Blaster yet, so rolled one on test.  The damage bonus from Targeting Drone also drops if you get attacked.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Naraka

[Burnt Toast]

47 minutes ago, Joshex said:

it's my original toon I spent close to all of 5 years on the floor with back in 2006 to 2010 before I finally decided to give it a rest and make other ATs.

 

I've considered the sorcery pool, but it doesn't show in old mids.

So Maybe update Mids? This will allow you to see all available powers and enhancements to create your build. 

[Replacement]

45 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Kind of apprehensive about 1. as revising a lot of pools that way might be kind of power creeping.

 

For 2. is there any effects that suppress only when you attack?  AFAIK, there is no mode for that and it's why Stalker Hide gets big AoE def, because their stealth (and all stealth) suppresses *when you enter combat* which doesn't require you to use any attacks. 

 

EDIT: Just double checked since I hadn't used /devices on a Blaster yet, so rolled one on test.  The damage bonus from Targeting Drone also drops if you get attacked.

Moderate levels of agreement there on both fronts. There are no effects I know of that specify "when you take aggressive action" so not sure it's possible. As for power pool reqs... I said I would consider but I probably should have said I "would hear the case for." I'm not strongly in favor of it.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

2 hours ago, Replacement said:

I kind of skimmed through most of this. Apologies for all the nuance missed.

 

About Afterburner itself, I rather like how it is but  I will acknowledge it's unwieldy to use. For a long while I was enjoying using it to break the alpha or for herding on a /Regen toon.  It's a big big chunk of defense.

 

Things I would consider changing:

1) it would certainly feel better if it required one power instead of 2. 

2) I'm not sold on it, but perhaps it would be more usable if the defense bonus suppressed when you attacked, instead of Only Affects Self.

 

And against my better judgement, I feel the need to once again stir up shit:

Most of the same voices saying "fix your build" can probably be found elsewhere protecting people's rights to build how they want and bragging how this game tends to work regardless of build.

It feels like a politician pivot: "I am not interested in fixing a thing but that would sound subjective so let's see if I can blame you instead."

Uhm specifically the OP is trying to push a build on a elec/energy blaster to be able to safely and reliable solo+4x1. Whilea  few have gone so far as to basically say bad build get gud, I think in general most of us are trying to also understand the motivations and interest of the OP when making build advise. Over all though most seem to agree that making the power into a combat ability would go against the very nature of the power. Thus why the somewhat soff topic/side topic of the OPs build.

 

And there is a big different between saying consider this or that to improve oneself for specific game play scenerios vs saying bad build get gud and do this and this. This player for example has given specific desire to recreate an old toon from live. He has a personal goal he wants to reach, we are trying to offer useful tips and advice to reach that goal without having to see the game itself altered to make that possible.

 

Because most of us here seem to feel there is nothing to fix. Afterburner does what its always been meant to. Its a final tier power and really nothing else in fly could possibly rank higher then it. Hover or AS or fly all have to be low tier. Group fly well ok yeah we could toss it out and maybe a handful of players would notice( I do have one RP toon with it to effect being able to lift allies telekinetically). But if we did toss out group fly, and lower afterburner down to 1 pre req power, what would you want to see made to replace its end teir power? Another attack like in leaping but based on cannonball? I mean it could work but fly already has one damn handy attack and is in general a very popular pool. giving it a strong targeted aoe attack for its end tier power could easily make fly the most powerful pool to take.

[Joshex]

4 hours ago, Replacement said:

I kind of skimmed through most of this. Apologies for all the nuance missed.

 

About Afterburner itself, I rather like how it is but  I will acknowledge it's unwieldy to use. For a long while I was enjoying using it to break the alpha or for herding on a /Regen toon.  It's a big big chunk of defense.

 

Things I would consider changing:

1) it would certainly feel better if it required one power instead of 2. 

2) I'm not sold on it, but perhaps it would be more usable if the defense bonus suppressed when you attacked, instead of Only Affects Self.

 

And against my better judgement, I feel the need to once again stir up shit:

Most of the same voices saying "fix your build" can probably be found elsewhere protecting people's rights to build how they want and bragging how this game tends to work regardless of build.

It feels like a politician pivot: "I am not interested in fixing a thing but that would sound subjective so let's see if I can blame you instead."

 

some fair points I agree some of these could be considerations in what the cost of using it in battle would be.

 

2 hours ago, Replacement said:

Moderate levels of agreement there on both fronts. There are no effects I know of that specify "when you take aggressive action" so not sure it's possible. As for power pool reqs... I said I would consider but I probably should have said I "would hear the case for." I'm not strongly in favor of it.

 

there are no effects which specify aggressive action, there are however effects which specify "in battle" or "out of battle". Travel does come into consideration when the game decides whether you are in or out of battle. if you are moving with a travel power and do not have a target, or an attack power highlighted for activation, and something attacks you, you are not considered as "in battle" from what I know.

 

Indeed it could take a Self -something when used in battle. obviously not self - speed or fly or def. as those are the traits it's used for. it could however be self - Damage, or Self - Accuracy or to hit or recovery, or maybe it just uses significantly more end in battle.

 

For example:

Weave uses 0.15 end per second out of the box and supplies 6.3% def all

Afterburner uses 0.3 end per sec out of the box and  supplies 18.8% def all

 

It's double the end drain but the def is almost triple, so triple or quadruple the end drain in battle.

 

Afterburner could use 0.6 end per second in battle and 0.3 out of battle. 4 times what weave uses. for 3 times the def and extra 1 for fly protection and flight speed etc..

 

thinking of sufficient punishments for using it in battle is all math. the question is, would people want this, I would indeed want it as specified it would really make my blaster tough enough. but, I need enough people to concur. it is a relatively "everyone that uses it" sorta topic when talking about changing a power. at present maybe there are 2 of us?

Edited June 7, 2020 by Joshex

[Grouchybeast]

45 minutes ago, Joshex said:

thinking of sufficient punishments for using it in battle is all math. the question is, would people want this, I would indeed want it as specified it would really make my blaster tough enough. but, I need enough people to concur. it is a relatively "everyone that uses it" sorta topic when talking about changing a power. at present maybe there are 2 of us?

Honestly, my main feeling is that min-maxing one's way to a soft-capped squishy character should at least take some design effort, tradeoffs and sacrifices.  At the very least, it should require more effort than taking Hover and Fly, and then tripping up and falling face first into power that grants 18.8% defense.  That is brokenly OP.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[Wavicle]

In combat Stealth suppresses and loses part of its defense.

 

 In theory you could remove Only Affecting Self and instead the power simply loses most of its defense in combat.

 

 Frankly, though, that is literally what Hover is for.

 

Afterburner is fine as is, a poor man’s Personal Forcefield.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Wavicle

[Joshex]

39 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Honestly, my main feeling is that min-maxing one's way to a soft-capped squishy character should at least take some design effort, tradeoffs and sacrifices.  At the very least, it should require more effort than taking Hover and Fly, and then tripping up and falling face first into power that grants 18.8% defense.  That is brokenly OP.

0.6 end per second is no joke when most people only make it out to what? 2.93% thats like 1/4th the total end you have per second. granted I didn't mathematically equate the flight, fly speed and -fly protection to some sort of debuff. I assumed it was 1/4th of the price but I could be wrong.  ok mag 4, so a mag 1 effect is worth how much of a toggle.   more calculations necessary. lets get the first toggle type power with a mag I can find, tanker WP rise to the challenge, taunt mag 3 with tohit debuff:   it looks like it's roughly worth half the power, so half the end per second is  0.105 per second /3 *4 = 0.14.

 

0.6+ 0.14 = 0.74 per second. that's a monstrous cost. name a toggle that costs that or more in game. I'd be surprised if one exists.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Joshex

[Wavicle]

6 minutes ago, Joshex said:

0.6 end per second is no joke when most people only make it out to what? 2.93% thats like 1/4th the total end you have per second. granted I didn't mathematically equate the flight, fly speed and -fly protection to some sort of debuff. I assumed it was 1/4th of the price but I could be wrong.  ok mag 4, so a mag 1 effect is worth how much of a toggle.   more calculations necessary. lets get the first toggle type power with a mag I can find, tanker WP rise to the challenge, taunt mag 3 with tohit debuff:   it looks like it's roughly worth half the power, so half the end per second is  0.105 per second /3 *4 = 0.14.

 

0.6+ 0.14 = 0.74 per second. that's a monstrous cost. name a toggle that costs that or more in game. I'd be surprised if one exists.

Check Arctic Air maybe? Telekinesis? Hurricane?

[Joshex]

3 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Check Arctic Air maybe? Telekinesis? Hurricane?

nice finds, ok then. thats because it's Mag 9 and debuffs, recharge, movement and stealth to 50 and 65%! massive cost for massive power. maybe I underestimated the cost of the end that would be a fair trade for "in combat" in this case. I would appreciate a second opinion on what sort of end cost/sec would be sufficient. From where we could divide that up into end cost damage debuff and accuracy debuff or to hit or something.