Can we change how "chance for KD" IOs work in "chance for KD" powerss

[Chance Jackson]

Currently the IOs add a separate chance to KD,  which if proc'd can stack with the Power's KD turning it into KB, but I wish it just increased the Power's chance to KD instead as in a straight forward addition of the chance percentages giving players more reliable KD without adding undesired KB

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Putting aside this fact that this is the 9000th KB-KD thread. Everyone is well aware of the fact that sudden acceleration set is broken or at least works inefficiently because the entire set works to increase KB and the final piece removes it altogether. It is unknown if this is being looked at or rectified in any way.

 

It is also well known that KB is the ONLY secondary effect that works on a proc. Truthfully if KB was reliable it would be incredibly OP, as it is KB as a tool for crowd control when used properly is amazing.

 

I used to be in the "change KB-KD camp!", but after learning to use it properly, I no longer care. Truthfully, it will take time and practice to utilize effectively but once you get the hang of it you too can run 4x8 carnies with a energy blaster (seriously). 

 

There are very few ways to improve proc rates in this game. Using KB properly requires a bit of strategy. So instead of suggesting a change to make the game easier try learning how to use the mechanic properly. The mechanic isnt perfect sometimes enemies can get stuck in walls and aoe knockback is just downright counter-intuitive to typical gameplay but every powerset has a little something that is kinda annoying. Fire makes enemies run, sonic sounds are annoying, dual pistols have long animations, archery is.....well archery. The point is there is no perfect powerset or secondary effect and i think its like that on purpose, because without challenge how much fun can it be?

[macskull]

53 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

It is also well known that KB is the ONLY secondary effect that works on a proc.

Err, what?

[Troo]

@Chance Jackson Okay!

[Saiyajinzoningen]

24 minutes ago, macskull said:

Err, what?

ok so. Secondary effects usually accompany damage heres a quick rundown to elaborate on my point

 

fire reliably does dots

darkness reliably applies -to hit debuffs

ice blast reliably applies slow

psychic reliable applies -recharge

radiation reliably applies -defense

sonic reliably applies -resists

water reliably applies chance to choke foe (just kidding, but shouldn't it tho?)

 

anyway the point is: the only other power that has a secondary effect that is a proc is electricity and the effect of end drain on mobs is relatively meaningless since their abilities require only 1 point of endurance to use. And the reason that end drain is a proc cause if elect regularly drained endurance it would be an absolute pvp monster.

 

So to recap. most knockback powers only have a chance to knockback. while the other abilities apply their secondary effects on a regular basis. I apologize if what i said was confusing. The line should have read, "It is also well known that KB is the ONLY secondary effect that works AS a proc."

[Zeraphia]

26 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

fire reliably does dots

I'm not going to call it "unreliable" but I'm going to say that it's not in the same sentence as those others you mentioned are. All fire effects have an 80% chance to cause their DoTs, that isn't guaranteed like the rest are. So technically no, it isn't the only one with a proc chance.

 

[macskull]

There's also the myriad of powers that have a "chance for" secondary effects (stun, sleep, etc.). Knockback/down isn't unique in this regard. Also, all Elec Blast/Elec Melee powers that drain end do so 100% of the time.

[Snowdaze]

7 hours ago, Chance Jackson said:

Currently the IOs add a separate chance to KD,  which if proc'd can stack with the Power's KD turning it into KB, but I wish it just increased the Power's chance to KD instead as in a straight forward addition of the chance percentages giving players more reliable KD without adding undesired KB

they are working on this they just recently implemented code for vector based "knocking" so yes at some point in the future it will be come "knock mag X direction" but you must be patient, but from what I am to understand this is coming in the future

[Chance Jackson]

1 hour ago, Snowdaze said:

they are working on this they just recently implemented code for vector based "knocking" so yes at some point in the future it will be come "knock mag X direction" but you must be patient, but from what I am to understand this is coming in the future

Cool

[Saiyajinzoningen]

8 hours ago, macskull said:

There's also the myriad of powers that have a "chance for" secondary effects (stun, sleep, etc.). Knockback/down isn't unique in this regard. Also, all Elec Blast/Elec Melee powers that drain end do so 100% of the time.

my apologies i stand corrected. Is the elec proc that it might give you end back? Its been a long time since i've played Electricity

 

While it is true that a few other powers do cause secondary procs as you stated. They are nowhere near as disruptive to "typical" (please notice the quotation marks, i do not wish to be taken out of context) gameplay as knockback. Nor do they require specific strategy to use effectively. The idea I am attempting to communicate is that while you can use use knockback effectively with proper positioning sometimes KB doesn't proc rendering your strategy meaningless. I know hovering over a foes head turns KB-KD but this is unfeasible for some indoor maps and many foes have -fly. Again i position instinctively at this point so its irrelevant to me. I would love to read about this alleged vector based knockback as it would make yanking enemies toward you feasible. 

[Naraka]

11 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

ok so. Secondary effects usually accompany damage heres a quick rundown to elaborate on my point

 

fire reliably does dots

darkness reliably applies -to hit debuffs

ice blast reliably applies slow

psychic reliable applies -recharge

radiation reliably applies -defense

sonic reliably applies -resists

water reliably applies chance to choke foe (just kidding, but shouldn't it tho?)

 

anyway the point is: the only other power that has a secondary effect that is a proc is electricity and the effect of end drain on mobs is relatively meaningless since their abilities require only 1 point of endurance to use. And the reason that end drain is a proc cause if elect regularly drained endurance it would be an absolute pvp monster.

 

So to recap. most knockback powers only have a chance to knockback. while the other abilities apply their secondary effects on a regular basis. I apologize if what i said was confusing. The line should have read, "It is also well known that KB is the ONLY secondary effect that works AS a proc."

I think the distinction that should be made is:

 

Those first examples = debuffs/damage

 

Knockback = mez

 

It's also not the only effect that works on a % chance.  Stuns also work on a % chance and it's a mez.  Some KB powers are 100% just like some mez powers are 100%, but as more of it is sprinkled in a set, you rely on %chance to keep it from chaining/stacking to absurd levels.

[Naraka]

4 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

my apologies i stand corrected. Is the elec proc that it might give you end back? Its been a long time since i've played Electricity

 

While it is true that a few other powers do cause secondary procs as you stated. They are nowhere near as disruptive to "typical" (please notice the quotation marks, i do not wish to be taken out of context) gameplay as knockback. Nor do they require specific strategy to use effectively. The idea I am attempting to communicate is that while you can use use knockback effectively with proper positioning sometimes KB doesn't proc rendering your strategy meaningless. I know hovering over a foes head turns KB-KD but this is unfeasible for some indoor maps and many foes have -fly. Again i position instinctively at this point so its irrelevant to me. I would love to read about this alleged vector based knockback as it would make yanking enemies toward you feasible. 

Which powers are you talking about?

 

There is a lot of distinctions that should be made with regards to KB.  It's not "typically" disruptive if you're knocking back *a* target reliably.  Even if they are pushed outside of normal melee range, that typically means you didn't immobilize that foe thus they have the opportunity to simply move outside of melee range regardless of if you use KB or not (which *IS* typical, especially for not tank ATs).  For standard AoE chance of KB, it's likely the proc would give you a positive effect if you merely didn't want to get the secondary effect of KB.  You don't have to properly position anything if you're focused on *a* target and if you don't want your AoEs to knock stuff, that is typically what the proc is for.

 

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

2 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Which powers are you talking about?

 

There is a lot of distinctions that should be made with regards to KB.  It's not "typically" disruptive if you're knocking back *a* target reliably.  Even if they are pushed outside of normal melee range, that typically means you didn't immobilize that foe thus they have the opportunity to simply move outside of melee range regardless of if you use KB or not (which *IS* typical, especially for not tank ATs).  For standard AoE chance of KB, it's likely the proc would give you a positive effect if you merely didn't want to get the secondary effect of KB.  You don't have to properly position anything if you're focused on *a* target and if you don't want your AoEs to knock stuff, that is typically what the proc is for.

 

 

hey naraka, I am not talking about the IO procs that turn kb into kd. I am talking about the the fact that KB itself is a proc. Its pretty widely agreed upon that the AOE knockbacks are the least controllable and most players slot a KB-KD io in them to make it manageable.

 

I also loved your earlier post. The fact that most secondary effects are debuffs and KB is a type of mez idea is perfect. If the mez was more reliable like the OP's request it would be absurd.

[Chance Jackson]

On 6/5/2020 at 5:48 PM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Putting aside this fact that this is the 9000th KB-KD thread. Everyone is well aware of the fact that sudden acceleration set is broken or at least works inefficiently because the entire set works to increase KB and the final piece removes it altogether. It is unknown if this is being looked at or rectified in any way.

 

It is also well known that KB is the ONLY secondary effect that works on a proc. Truthfully if KB was reliable it would be incredibly OP, as it is KB as a tool for crowd control when used properly is amazing.

 

I used to be in the "change KB-KD camp!", but after learning to use it properly, I no longer care. Truthfully, it will take time and practice to utilize effectively but once you get the hang of it you too can run 4x8 carnies with a energy blaster (seriously). 

 

There are very few ways to improve proc rates in this game. Using KB properly requires a bit of strategy. So instead of suggesting a change to make the game easier try learning how to use the mechanic properly. The mechanic isnt perfect sometimes enemies can get stuck in walls and aoe knockback is just downright counter-intuitive to typical gameplay but every powerset has a little something that is kinda annoying. Fire makes enemies run, sonic sounds are annoying, dual pistols have long animations, archery is.....well archery. The point is there is no perfect powerset or secondary effect and i think its like that on purpose, because without challenge how much fun can it be?

I'm not referring to kb to kd IOs or knockback boosting IOs; I'm talking about "chance to KD" IOs like the one in Ragnarok & the one in the Ice PBAOE set and specifically how those IOs work in powers that already have a "chance to KD" like Martial Arts/Combat/Assault's Dragon's Tail Power or Footstomp