Best Route through the Game for Natural Origin?

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Hm have you and your partner been binge watching Arrow perhaps?

 

Ok so if your going for a mortal man green arrow type of homage the first side pools d suggest are def stealth and leadership. with leadership Id go all the way to veng, as an SO only Duo, if you end up in any of the harder baseline content, its not unlikely to be abit overwhelmed especially if you guys push up dif because baseline proves to easy. Veng from a def will make sure if one of you goes down, the other finishes the fight and in a very timely manner. Its also very thematic for the iconic concept of the duo, as not a comic duo exist that if one gets badly beaten the other doesnt turn into a wrecking ball of rage.

 

Jumping is def good if you want abit more def, and to feel more agile so good call there. for your 4th pool healing or fighting would be my suggestion. Id actually suggest fighting if your really trying to embrace a thematic concept over a meta approach. Every archer in the comics has some melee ability, and the 3 attacks in fighting are actually pretty solid on offenders ime. Id almost even suggest drop jumping, just use ninja run for the acrobatic vibe, and fit in flight just for air superiority. Air Sup and cross punch make a pretty nice close quarters combo just to really act like GA or his many minions.

 

As for being unsure of Praetoria content, I can honestly say as a duo on a stalker blaster combo, with both of us using stealth, we had zero issues going through the good side arc of the rebel faction. In fact it was easier then a few of my runs blue and red side.

[Tath99]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Hm have you and your partner been binge watching Arrow perhaps?

 

Ok so if your going for a mortal man green arrow type of homage the first side pools d suggest are def stealth and leadership. with leadership Id go all the way to veng, as an SO only Duo, if you end up in any of the harder baseline content, its not unlikely to be abit overwhelmed especially if you guys push up dif because baseline proves to easy. Veng from a def will make sure if one of you goes down, the other finishes the fight and in a very timely manner. Its also very thematic for the iconic concept of the duo, as not a comic duo exist that if one gets badly beaten the other doesnt turn into a wrecking ball of rage.

 

Jumping is def good if you want abit more def, and to feel more agile so good call there. for your 4th pool healing or fighting would be my suggestion. Id actually suggest fighting if your really trying to embrace a thematic concept over a meta approach. Every archer in the comics has some melee ability, and the 3 attacks in fighting are actually pretty solid on offenders ime. Id almost even suggest drop jumping, just use ninja run for the acrobatic vibe, and fit in flight just for air superiority. Air Sup and cross punch make a pretty nice close quarters combo just to really act like GA or his many minions.

 

As for being unsure of Praetoria content, I can honestly say as a duo on a stalker blaster combo, with both of us using stealth, we had zero issues going through the good side arc of the rebel faction. In fact it was easier then a few of my runs blue and red side.

A result of watching 'Arrow?'  No.  

 

We are working our way through the Defender primaries and conceptually testing them.  We have taken a liking to the archetype -- believing it to be the best archetype in the game.  

 

We ran a Force Field duo -- and it broke the game.  Defensively.  But was slow to defeat enemies.  So we have moved over to more 'Offender' concepts.  By taking the same powersets we can have fun discussing and exploring it all.

 

------

 

Healing and Fighting as mentioned above, do fit the concept.  Thanks for the suggestion!  We haven't really discussed the build -- but it is more intended to be an in-depth look at Trick Arrow / Archery than the pool powers.  We will have done something wrong if enemies get to melee range.  😉

 

 

-- Tath99

Edited August 8, 2020 by Tath99

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Tath99 said:

Thanks for the advice, Luminara!  Your expertise might be drawn upon.  😉

 

The comments about AOE are especially welcome -- I was in two minds over [Fistful of Arrows].

 

The Build we are aiming for is yet to be determined.  'Controllery' is what we have decided so far.  🙂

 

Ideally we want [Combat Jump] & [Stealth] to fit the Natural concept.    Experience has taught us rounding corners and running into mobs requires -perception and a jumping exit strategy.

 

 

 

Try Grant Invisibility instead of Stealth.  Both TA and Archery have fast animation times.  None of them are over 2 seconds, most are 1.3 seconds or less.  So despite the lack of toggles in either set, they still lead to heavy endurance usage, and with limited slotting availability (due to SOs being used instead of IOs) in conjunction with pool toggles, you're going to need all of the endurance you can scrounge.  Cutting out one 0.33/s toggle, Stealth, will help enormously.  Grant Invisibility has a high up-front endurance cost, but you can easily recover that on the way to the mission, or the next spawn, and with a duration of 2 minutes, you won't need to worry about burning excess endurance during a fight, or a sudden lapse of mitigation.  The +Def is identical, in strength and functionality (half is lost when you engage foes (which does not include using Flash Arrow, that's flagged as a no aggro power and doesn't break Stealth/Invis)), but the perception reduction is almost twice as strong as Stealth, so even if you do land in the middle of a spawn, you won't have delayed aggro as you're high-tailing it out of there (which occurs with all forms of Stealth (pool, IO, Cloaking Device, Superspeed, etc)).

 

With Flash Arrow and Maneuvers from both of you, plus CJ and Grant Invis/Stealth, you'll both be sitting at ~38.5% hit reduction to every type and position (presuming all powers are slotted with 3 SOs for -ToHit or +Def).  Some of that, in the Defense portion, will be reduced when you're fighting lieutenants, bosses and +X critters (the more +s, the lower your final Defense value), but double-stacked PGA will definitely take the sting out of anything that does hit you.

 

I don't recommend focusing on the control aspects of TA.  You can play the control aspects up, but based on my own experiences (past and present), I suspect you'll realize that you don't need to double Ice Arrow every boss and EMP Arrow every spawn.  The double Sleeps from PGA will neuter every spawn, from that point, soft controls (Glue and OSA, and random KB from Explosive) tend to be enough.  Especially if you're rolling with a pile of -ToHit and +Def.  I ran my TA/A in Issue 5 with a fraction of that projected Defense total, hit checks on Flash Arrow, pernicious bugs in OSA, PGA working entirely differently (one hit check on cast, no persistent patch with a pulsing Sleep or -Dam), and double (or more) the current animation times, and I dumped Ice Arrow on a respec, and almost never used EMP Arrow, when I was in the mid-30s.  Today's TA is much more effective, and PGA itself is more mitigation than the entire set had at release, and still better than it had even after several bug fixes and changes to animation times.  The change made to PGA, in and of itself, is more vitalizing to the set as a whole, than anything else that was done with any other power in it (except resolving the failure to ignite OSA... that was the most important fix.  ever.  in any set).  With two at your disposal, and the -ToHit and +Def totals you'll be sporting, very little below EB rank will be a threat (robots... damn robots don't like naps...).  Even the critters you can't put to Sleep, like robots, aren't going to be hitting you hard after you've debuffed their damage by ~47%, if they hit you at all.

 

Rather than repeat your Force Fields experience, use only enough mitigation (double Flash Arrow, double PGA and one Glue) to open, then debuff their resistance and arrest them until they can't walk upright.  It will be much faster, and not unreasonably unsafe.  Especially when you acquire OSA (drop Glue from the opening volley, it won't be necessary once OSA is available), and again when you obtain RoA.

 

And remember that Acid has a melee PBAoE radius, 8', so they'll be more effective used on different targets (stack them on bosses, otherwise, spread the pain).  Also, Disruption has a 10 target limit, so choose your difficulty setting appropriately.

[Tath99]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:44 AM, Luminara said:

 

Try Grant Invisibility instead of Stealth.  Both TA and Archery have fast animation times.  None of them are over 2 seconds, most are 1.3 seconds or less.  So despite the lack of toggles in either set, they still lead to heavy endurance usage, and with limited slotting availability (due to SOs being used instead of IOs) in conjunction with pool toggles, you're going to need all of the endurance you can scrounge.  Cutting out one 0.33/s toggle, Stealth, will help enormously.  Grant Invisibility has a high up-front endurance cost, but you can easily recover that on the way to the mission, or the next spawn, and with a duration of 2 minutes, you won't need to worry about burning excess endurance during a fight, or a sudden lapse of mitigation.  The +Def is identical, in strength and functionality (half is lost when you engage foes (which does not include using Flash Arrow, that's flagged as a no aggro power and doesn't break Stealth/Invis)), but the perception reduction is almost twice as strong as Stealth, so even if you do land in the middle of a spawn, you won't have delayed aggro as you're high-tailing it out of there (which occurs with all forms of Stealth (pool, IO, Cloaking Device, Superspeed, etc)).

 

With Flash Arrow and Maneuvers from both of you, plus CJ and Grant Invis/Stealth, you'll both be sitting at ~38.5% hit reduction to every type and position (presuming all powers are slotted with 3 SOs for -ToHit or +Def).  Some of that, in the Defense portion, will be reduced when you're fighting lieutenants, bosses and +X critters (the more +s, the lower your final Defense value), but double-stacked PGA will definitely take the sting out of anything that does hit you.

 

I don't recommend focusing on the control aspects of TA.  You can play the control aspects up, but based on my own experiences (past and present), I suspect you'll realize that you don't need to double Ice Arrow every boss and EMP Arrow every spawn.  The double Sleeps from PGA will neuter every spawn, from that point, soft controls (Glue and OSA, and random KB from Explosive) tend to be enough.  Especially if you're rolling with a pile of -ToHit and +Def.  I ran my TA/A in Issue 5 with a fraction of that projected Defense total, hit checks on Flash Arrow, pernicious bugs in OSA, PGA working entirely differently (one hit check on cast, no persistent patch with a pulsing Sleep or -Dam), and double (or more) the current animation times, and I dumped Ice Arrow on a respec, and almost never used EMP Arrow, when I was in the mid-30s.  Today's TA is much more effective, and PGA itself is more mitigation than the entire set had at release, and still better than it had even after several bug fixes and changes to animation times.  The change made to PGA, in and of itself, is more vitalizing to the set as a whole, than anything else that was done with any other power in it (except resolving the failure to ignite OSA... that was the most important fix.  ever.  in any set).  With two at your disposal, and the -ToHit and +Def totals you'll be sporting, very little below EB rank will be a threat (robots... damn robots don't like naps...).  Even the critters you can't put to Sleep, like robots, aren't going to be hitting you hard after you've debuffed their damage by ~47%, if they hit you at all.

 

Rather than repeat your Force Fields experience, use only enough mitigation (double Flash Arrow, double PGA and one Glue) to open, then debuff their resistance and arrest them until they can't walk upright.  It will be much faster, and not unreasonably unsafe.  Especially when you acquire OSA (drop Glue from the opening volley, it won't be necessary once OSA is available), and again when you obtain RoA.

 

And remember that Acid has a melee PBAoE radius, 8', so they'll be more effective used on different targets (stack them on bosses, otherwise, spread the pain).  Also, Disruption has a 10 target limit, so choose your difficulty setting appropriately.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding Grant Invisibility.  It is an option but it might be we don't want to be too reliant on a recast.

 

As for the control aspects of Trick Arrow:  by this I mean quite specifically, making sure it is recognised that the characters are first and foremost Defenders / Offenders.  That is, allocated slots to powers will favour Controlling and Debuffing.  Making sure powers slow enough, debuff enough, control enough to slow the pace of combat 'down' so the likes of the -resists can bite.  In early testing if slots are allocated towards offensive Archery, enemies break free and through the defensive line to threaten the archer (to use an Americanism:  they are rushing the quarterback).

 

edit:

 

- If anyone has further thoughts / suggestions on favourite story arcs that strongly suit Natural characters (or test them by being at odds) please make mention of them.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Tath99

[Tath99]

This Natural duo is now active and casually playing through content.

 

Trick Arrow as a a duo is a quite safe affair.  Bosses and Elite Bosses are defeatable.

 

One death to date (me!) when I underestimated the -defence effect of enemy gunfire.  Knockback & knockdown are also potentially life threatening.

[InvaderStych]

Where did you two end up starting?

 

Will be interesting to hear updates. 🙂

Edited August 19, 2020 by InvaderStych
caught up to current events

[Tath99]

23 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Where did you two end up starting?

 

Will be interesting to hear updates. 🙂

We ended up starting Blue-side on the Reunion Server.

 

To date: We have travelled through Atlas, Hollows up to Frostfire and defeated Veles as a purple-class Elite Boss.  We are currently venturing into Steel Canyon.

 

Unfortunately we have discovered the 'Natural' Contact chain is very easy to break & outlevel, which is a considerable disappointment.

 

Screenshots to (hopefully) follow at a later date.

 

 

[Tath99]

English Spirit -- Steel Canyon.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Tath99

[Tath99]

English Spirit & English Spirit.  -- Steel Canyon.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Tath99

[Tath99]

Progress Made:

 

Fusionette rescued.  Kurse defeated.  Arbiter Sands encountered.

 

Nocturne defeated.  One Arachnos escape-submarine destroyed.

[Tath99]

'Erm' Boss encountered.  The Wonders of Time Travel.

 

Progress Update:

 

The Contact system is in a poor state, side-lining some excellent story arcs.  To overcome these difficulties access to Ouroboros' was obtained.  This encounter took place on the Bloodsnap arc during a Perez Park hunt for Skulls and Hellions.

 

Using the Ouroboros system is highly recommended to all would-be Archers.  Run the content you want to suit your own desires.

 

(The sharp-eyed of you might also note 'English Spirit' and 'English Spirit.' both have matching costumes as originally intended.  By sharing a costume file, we were able to overcome a costume bug.)

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Tath99

[Golden Azrael]

Good thread so far, Tath99.

 

SOs at L22 added extra bite and finishing power to our well rehearsed '3 arrow' attack chain.  Whilst also almost removing stamina as a problem.  (Most toggles, debuffs and the heavy end using Blazing Arrow are all nailed down with - 2 End Red'.  This enables us to last the fight...and stack Debuffs with ease.)

 

By having good acc and sound end red' as well as good defence.  Our inspire tray can be filled with lucks, breakers and a couple of heals to really step up if we need to vs Bosses or EB.  Don't have to use them most of the time.

 

We've tried to 'build from the back' (or the Primary...) to have a solid tactical foundation in any battle field conflict.  In English.  We have more debuffs than attacks.

Drawing from Leadership has allowed us to boost our damage and our defence, with flash arrow..., be barely 'scratched' in conflict.  We may take the odd hit or so over a mission.  Nothing that gets us below 3/4s health.

 

Adding the fourth attack power, Exploding Arrow, has added an 'extra' gear and excitement to our combat.

 

Tath99 has made a civilised start to building the SG base.

 

Some thoughtful discussion about which power to take at L24 (Tactics..?).  Forward thinking views on perception awareness against higher level foes...and stacking the best part of 20+ to hit to our attacking play.  And the 'game changing' Oil Slick available at L26 on the horizon.  Mob Marshmallows.

 

Tath99 also had a very useful suggestion re: the Defender AT unique 'Heal' Proc' (fires x2 per min'...) and over both of us...that's four times per min...and it affects...BOTH of us.   Good call on that one.

 

Yes.  Costume fix kindly provided by Tath99.

 

Azrael.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Tath99]

Taking a break from AE.

 

Progress Update:

 

Getting to grips with AE including the creation of a custom group.  It could be fun to create stories, right?  But how many people are interested in story content over farming content?

 

Rough concept of SG base placed down.  Discovered five days in you can change the colours of tile-sets(!)  May allow sneak-peak in days ahead, once I work out how to do the macroimage passwordy thing.

 

-- Tath99

Edited August 27, 2020 by Tath99

[TygerDarkstorm]

2 hours ago, Tath99 said:

Taking a break from AE.

 

Progress Update:

 

Getting to grips with AE including the creation of a custom group.  It could be fun to create stories, right?  But how many people are interested in story content over farming content?

 

Rough concept of SG base placed down.  Discovered five days in you can change the colours of tile-sets(!)  May allow sneak-peak in days ahead, once I work out how to do the macroimage passwordy thing.

 

-- Tath99

I would love to see more story content in AE! I went to go level one of my lowbies in there as a change of pace, but could only seem to find pages and pages of farms. 😞 The farm stuff being available to all levels is great for my fire farmer as I can do them to test out how her build is working out as she's leveling up, but it would be nice to find some stuff for my low-level, non-farm toons to run as an alternative to the same entry missions I've done hundreds of times and/or running DFB endlessly.

[Tath99]

Striga Isle.  Bad men with guns tried to shoot us.

 

Progress Update:  Maestro Defeated.

 

Added additional mission to my AE arc & extra room to SG base.

 

My duo partner and I have come to a conclusion:  [Oil Slick Arrow] is rather good.

 

-- Tath99.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Tath99

[Golden Azrael]

15 hours ago, Tath99 said:

Striga Isle.  Bad men with guns tried to shoot us.

 

Progress Update:  Maestro Defeated.

 

Added additional mission to my AE arc & extra room to SG base.

 

My duo partner and I have come to a conclusion:  [Oil Slick Arrow] is rather good.

 

-- Tath99.

 

 

 

 

Giving the Council the 'burn' and debuffing Maestro was a lot of fun. 

 

A defender Trick/Arrows Duo has been a Debuff revelation in terms of strategic battlefield control.  Flash.  Gas.  Glue.  Acid.  Oil. 

 

Earned our 3rd AT Defender 'Bastion' IO which has increased range by 7.5%.  (Following Natural Origin arc via Oro'.  Easier to keep in sync and has a pseudo 'pact' system whereby we share merits etc.)

 

We have unfinished business with the Wolves (for the Accolade.)

 

Looking forward to testing Tath99's AE mission.  

 

Never really got to grips with AE on live.  But having put together one mission the other day...it wasn't that difficult and reasonably quick. 

 

Whilst I understand Farming for stress testing builds etc.  Putting together a story Arc in AE has always been a creative challenge that intrigued and it has potential (which I suspect was the dev's original purpose.  To add 'select' narrative content to the game.)

 

Azrael.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

L40 achieved.

 

The last four powers have been Victory Rush at L30, EMP at L32 and Stun Shot at L35.  None of those I've been able to slot due to my end reduction mission.  But I'd like to pile '3' into EMP and Stun Shot at some point.  (Good candidates for IO sets which we aim to fit at L50.)

 

L38?  Rain of Arrows of course.

 

Oil and Rain are the twin pillars of Defender Tricks/Arrows damage.  Very....satisfying.  'De.  Stroy.'

 

The debuffs as we encounter each enemy mob for the '1st' time as Tricks Defenders is startlingly good.  Control of the battle field.

 

Dr. Vahzilock.  Defeated.  Yes.  As an AV.

 

I've built my Defender to be End 'neutral' with SO end reds and shared that with Tath99.  Saving an a couple of points of end on a couple of attacks in your chain used often as well as a Toggle not 'locked down' adds up, end wise.  

 

We fight 'as one' so even though we have 'only' 2 dams of SO damage...we actually have 'four' as when we 'stack' on a single target it's good night Vienna.  Plus the Debuffs add another damage slot for me.  Put Acid on a mob and it is cruelly pounded with any attacks that follow and melt it like butter.

 

The only gaping hole in the build is melee S&L.  We fight at Range most of the time...and the Flash and Gas and Glue take care of opponent mobs easily at range.  But when range is broken to melee the risk goes up.  Or if we vary attacks by mob pulling directly by aggrevating bystanding mobs without applying debuffs….  All of a sudden the hp bar isn't that large in that scenario.  This is where I think some melee defence eg. Scorpion Shield would make a large difference.

 

It's a lot of fun x2 debuffing and piling on the arrows Red Cap style.  'Hey...this doesn't do a lot of damage...'   Oh wait.  'He's dead, Jim.'

 

We've played even con all the way through.  We've seen our power rise from 'rookie' heroes to seasoned tactical heroes who can be very bruising together.

 

Single play is not as good.  So I don't bother.  But as a Duo?  This sings its siren song. 

 

An advert and poster child for Defenders and Duo'ing in general.

 

Azrael.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Lines]

I see you guys running around together every now and again. It's always a welcome sight! 🙂

[Golden Azrael]

Cheers Lines.

 

We're flying the flag for the 'old school' of play as well.  We've set our own rules (Tath99's idea) as they know I'm a softy for pre issue 4.

 

The reason you see us running around a lot...is because we have no travel power.  😄  We've decided to envoke the old school 1-14 no travel power idea.  So we have 1 SO of Swift.  That's it. 😮

 

Tath's work on 'Arrow Base SG' is ongoing.  A gym and a lab' are on the agenda.  I managed to twist Tath99's arm to include a bottle of scotch and a leather chair with some book cases... (but the Sg Foundation sold the books?)

 

We've been kicking Arrow Az'.  For sure.  I'll try to post some pics when I figure out how.

 

Tath99 is currently investigate ideas for IO sets when we cross the L50 threshold.  Here we can begin to push the levels and width of mob diff' in missions.

 

Currently?  We're doing the TF Commander.  2 TFs down.  1 Psynapse ongoing.  We've frozen xp on ++ enhances so when we 'exemp' down we have good play on our SO builds.

 

Regards,

 

Azrael.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

That War Wolf that used to slap us around?

Well.  He isn't Captain America anymore.

 

Azrael.

[Tath99]

Entanglement Theory:  Shoot an AV often enough...

 

Vandal:  defeated as a Trick Arrow duo.  On SO enhancements.

 

Our Trick Arrow slotting is well developed.  Our attacks are under-slotted.

 

===

 

And in other news: Lexington Manor is now open to the public for visitors.  Public password: Arrow-5260

 

Please note the base is a work in progress.  Feedback welcome.

 

The Public Archery Range.

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Tath99

[Golden Azrael]

Cool pics.

 

Entangle rocks.

 

Azrael.

[tanglin]

Just curious, what travel powers do you take, or do you rely on temp travel powers to get around? On my Natural Origin heroes, I use rocket boots or the jumping boots on the costumes to give a reason for why they're flying or leaping around.

[Tath99]

42 minutes ago, tanglin said:

Just curious, what travel powers do you take, or do you rely on temp travel powers to get around? On my Natural Origin heroes, I use rocket boots or the jumping boots on the costumes to give a reason for why they're flying or leaping around.

Swift, Hurdle, Combat Jump & Sprint only.

 

Combat Jump is recommended for the curious.  It (and a degree of patience) are good enough on this "old school" playthrough.  You can do neat things like scale buildings by leaping from window ledge to window ledge.

 

[Luminara]

51 minutes ago, Tath99 said:

Swift, Hurdle, Combat Jump & Sprint only.

 

Combat Jump is recommended for the curious.  It (and a degree of patience) are good enough on this "old school" playthrough.  You can do neat things like scale buildings by leaping from window ledge to window ledge.

 

You can also wall slide.  Any nearly vertical surface with a slight slant will turn a jump into a slide.  You can reach the top ledge of the War Walls this way, or rocket yourself off of a slanted building and soar a surprising distance.