SR vs. Nin

[Argent Aegis]

I have been wandering the Archetypes trying to find something that will fit my current play style needs.  After trying the control types, dipping my toes in VEATs, creating a blaster or two, and going back to my roots with melee - I finally wandered into the Sentinel forum.  I was hesitant due to the reputation, but after reading some very good posts from people like oldskool, I gave one a shot....and think I found a home for now.  But my biggest dilemma is choosing to push forward with either Ninjitsu or Super Reflexes.  I am torn between the two, having tried both for the early levels.

 

In Ninjistu, I love Shinobi-iri for the stalker-esque boost in damage, the stealth, and the increased movement.  I can skip stealth and maybe a travel power with it.  I like the endurance recovery and the self heal.  I like that I get all three positionals early on.

 

In SR, I love the extra defense and the scalable resistances,  Master Brawler with the absorb and the 'free' status protection adds to the toggle defense is very cool early on.  Having to look forward to the recharge reduction is also very attractive.

 

So to those of you who have played these sets, which do you think would be more useful as I progress?  Is the Shinobi-iri a trick pony that isn't really used later?  Is there a hidden gem in either of them that I should, but am not considering?

 

I have played an EM/Super Reflexes Stalker back on Live (before Incarnates were a thing), but this seems different from what I remember. so I don't feel like I can rely on that experience.

[Six-Six]

I enjoy them both, but for different themes. Other than obvious Ninja theme, I tend to use Ninjitsu for my "human" only toons. They get decent def, some well-rounded res, and clickies for end recov, regen, and status protection. It makes sense to me that ordinary humans take some time to do those 3 things as opposed to having them in auto or a constant toggle-and-forget.

SR, I use for "enhanced humans" (kinda like Captain America). they get super-agility that allows them to dodge most attacks, and quicken their recharge rate... which passed the realm of ordinary humans.

Meta-wise, I have found SR to be extremely useful for Sentinels given their lacking damage. the faster recharge allows you to do two nukes in under 90 secs, the same time it takes a blaster's nuke to recharge. so ya, you're not doing as much per attack, but you're attacking more often.

I tend to lean towards SR as it has been incredible for my DP and BR as the latter feels really slow with any other secondary. Besides, I'm not too fond of stealth powers which hide my suits. 😃

 

[Doomguide2005]

Have yet to make a Sentinel.  But looking in from experiences with scrapper and brute /SR, stalker /SR and /Nin I'd say the choice boils down to Nin utility powers vs SR's scaling resists and DDR.

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Have yet to make a Sentinel.  But looking in from experiences with scrapper and brute /SR, stalker /SR and /Nin I'd say the choice boils down to Nin utility powers vs SR's scaling resists and DDR.

This. Many times playing my Nin I find myself wondering "why am I getting hit so much? Oh yea, crappy DDR." And while playing my SR, "man, sure would be nice to have a click heal or +end right about now."

[cohRock]

I think both are great sets.  To me, the factor that has me choose one over the other boils down to two powers.

 

Ninjitsu Shinobi-Iri (available level 6)

• some positional defense to all
• stealth
• run speed boost
• jump boost (speed and height)

Super Reflexes Quickness (available level 28)

• +recharge
• run speed boost
• fly speed boost
• resist(slow)

One other factor to consider is knockback protection.  SR gets it at level 10, whereas Ninjitsu does not get it until level 28.  What factors are more important to your character concept?

[Argent Aegis]

Character concept usually goes more with what I enjoy playing.  I usually can come up with some 'concept' or story for the way my character turns out/power selection.  In fact, sometimes that, costumes, and names are what drives my altitis.  I find that the creation and running content differently to be part of the reason why I keep playing.  I am currently trying starts on redside, running red arcs for merits while under level 6, flipping to blue, run the few arcs there, and then flipping back again (character concept is surprisingly easy to justify doing this).  Combined with the merits for exploration badge accolades from MI, AP, GC, AP-echo, by level 8 I can have something like 81 merits.  And yes - I disable xp at times to do it all. 

So...both powersets have many attractive points.  I usually use some form of stealth for the times I just want to get somewhere, get that badge, or ghost a mission.  I love the fast action style.  I like mixing it up at early levels, so recharge and survivability are big.  I love absorb, most of my roster (and all my 50's) have it in some way.  I tend towards fly, but I find that combining speed running and high jumping really appeals to me lately. 

 

KB is not so much an issue.  If I need, I have a few Steadfasts and Zephyrs in my SG base.  There is also hover if I go that route. 

 

I'll probably run both sets combined with various Primaries and see what really gels.  I have tried Fire and Sonic so far.  Fire is nice damage, but I like mitigation.  Sonic is fun with the -resists but even with the sound mod available, the sound FX are hard to handle continuously,  I may try beam next (the Terminator sound mod is awesome).  I used it some on a blaster right before I stumbled onto this forum.  If there are other recommendations, please let me know.

 

Long post finally over.

[DrBasics]

Whenever I play a Sentinel, I like to take advantage of the shortened cooldown of the nuke. SR provides a great way to perma-hasten (or come super close to it) and that means your nuke is on a 20(ish) second cooldown. Maybe a little lower or a little higher. It is a fun way to play!

[Argent Aegis]

That is a point that I had never considered. A very valid point in SR's favor.

[oldskool]

Here are some observations from having run both: 

 

• Nin gets its AoE defense earlier than than SR.  However, AoE defense building to 45%+ can get a little tricky for Nin depending on your build plan.  If you plan to just run a ton of Winter Sets with their innately high AoE defense, then this isn't a problem.  If you want to run frankenslotting slot with procs, then it can potentially be an issue.  
• SR gets its AoE defense later, but the set is so self-contained it can soft-cap defenses no matter what you do with your primary.  
• Depending on your primary the endurance heal in Nin can become completely superfluous to the build.  With the right end procs and power slotting endurance isn't a big issue.  It is a great power for exemplar content though.  
• SR has passive endurance recovery on the scale of Quick Recovery from Regen/Willpower.  This means you do not need to click a button to recover endurance which in turns means no time spent clicking a power that does 0 damage.  I have 4~ end per second on my SR Sentinels.  
• The click heal vs click absorb isn't much of a debate.  They both have their merits.  Fully slotted, Master Brawler grants me over 400 extra hit points and the cooldown is trivial.  The ability to absorb damage with this ability is quite strong.  So much so that it makes it feel on par with the click heal in Nin.  Six of one, half a dozen of the other here. 
• Shinobi-Iri and Quickness both let me run fast enough to get to missions without a noticeable difference between the two.  Shinobi-Iri stacks aggro reduction with the Stealth IOs where Quickness does not.  This does give Nin an advantage in using PBAoE powers with impunity.  
• Nin has far more IO set diversity options going for it due to powers like Blinding Powder (purple confuse set!!) than SR does.  This can give users some creative wiggle room and that really was fun to explore. 

Nin and SR both have a number of quality of life features going for them.  However, SR can be easier to build in more damage with any primary you pair it with.  Powers like Quickness can allow for attack patterns that just aren't possible with other secondary sets.  This is especially true when you start incorporating damage procs because the +20% recharge makes up for not having set bonuses.  So far each of my SR heroes easily achieves 185% global recharge where other sets without a Quickness-like effect hit 165%.  That can be the difference between running an extra filler hit or not.  It can be the difference in how you slot a specific power.  SR grants that on top of allowing you to soft-cap the positional defenses without as much headache as Nin.   

Edited September 18, 2020 by oldskool