Game Balance & The Endgame

[mechahamham]

13 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

There is a simple way to get lower level event teams....form them. I find people all levels in the game standing around with their hands in their pockets. They wont form teams.

 

And here's the rub. I DO actively work to build event teams and still have all the problems I mentioned. If I have a team of three 20ish people on the Talos hill or in Blyde Square, they see a 50 join and then immediately leave, it becomes much harder to keep them on the team as well.

[Panthonca7034]

I have something that hasn't been addressed or even touched on, because it seems no one else has wanted to bring it up:  GOLDSIDE (Loyalists and Resistance included)

 

Post (or after) First Ward/Night Ward (level 32-39, then Level 40-49)

 No additional arcs exist after handling Lamashtu or Serene, and there's no mention of the Devouring Earth preparing to overrun Praetoria, thus leaving huge story gaps... (Maria Jenkins' arcs do not meet the criteria of what I am referring to)

 

I had to trim my observations and concerns to keep focus on the thread topic at hand, and I will post my ideas in the Suggestions section

Edited October 29, 2020 by Panthonca7034
clarification

[Hew]

On 10/26/2020 at 10:42 PM, ivanhedgehog said:

you have the ability to make the mission +4. you simply refuse to do it and want to get the devs to make everyone conform to your preferences. I would rather have more options, not less to satisfy someone perfectly able to do it for themselves.

I actually run teams sub +4 with my 50s, for a huge plethora of reasons. The amount teammates can contributed against +5 enemies vrs +4 enemies (to them, sidekicked) is vastly different.  The more the team can contribute, the faster things move, the more fun is had. As long as the mobs have scary colored names, everyone seems happy. That doesnt mean +4 to (lead). I can mean +2 (to team).

 

Try it, it works!

[Hew]

The whole proc thing is egregiously broken. When I can slot 4 procs in a power and net more damage than slotting the damn power FOR DAMAGE, thats an issue.

 

I abuse it wholesale, understanding it will not last long.

 

The point of acceptance came when i 4 slotted +5 level 50 a/d/e/r set pieces to get, well, a/d/e/r all at ED caps (85-90ish), and found that replacing the damn things with a/d/e 50+5 +3 procs did more damage period, I was, well. I gave in. 😕

 

[Pzn]

On 11/3/2020 at 6:57 AM, Hew said:

When I can slot 4 procs in a power and net more damage than slotting the damn power FOR DAMAGE, thats an issue

 

It depends on the power.  You are vastly oversimplifying it.  You also sacrifice accuracy, endurance, and recharge slotting alongside set bonuses.

Edited November 5, 2020 by josh1622

[Hew]

18 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

It depends on the power.  You are vastly oversimplifying it.  You also sacrifice accuracy, endurance, and recharge slotting alongside set bonuses.

1 power, which operates subnominally, can easily have its accuracy, endurance, and slotting bonuses easily replaced by slotting/power (use/choice)/incarnates elsewhere in the build. 

 

Recharge is INTENTIONALLY kept out. If you are slotting with procs, recharge comes from outside global sources, so even having it in your statement is disingenuous.

 

That same power however may have a core function available that no matter how much value slotting (not set bonus) you dump into it, it won't improve. When you can get 2,3, or 400% damage increase in a power with a handful of procs, AND STILL GET SET BONUSES (3 slot erad (1 of which is a proc) for bonuses + some procs for instance), THAT IS A PROBLEM.

 

Is this problem one that should be fixed? I don't know. But it certainly isn't operating as intended.

[DSorrow]

26 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

It depends on the power.  You are vastly oversimplifying it.  You also sacrifice accuracy, endurance, and recharge slotting alongside set bonuses.

Completely agree with this. Procs offer an alternative to the standard +Def/+Rech builds everyone went for before PPM. They also improve the build system by making previously less interesting ATs such as Defenders viable now that ATs with inherently higher defensive / lower offensive modifiers can skip some of the +Def bonuses in favor of procs to even up the game. 

[Pzn]

1 hour ago, Hew said:

AND STILL GET SET BONUSES (3 slot erad (1 of which is a proc) for bonuses + some procs for instance), THAT IS A PROBLEM.

Even in your example you are making sacrifices in order to slot procs.  3 eradications with 1 being a proc isn't going to give good enhancement values for acc/dam/end.  And if you fill the rest of the power up with procs then you're only getting 2 set bonuses as opposed to 5.  And before you start name calling I'm not being "disingenuous".  There's plenty of instances where you can slot recharge in a power without lowering the proc chance.  I often skip out on a proc in order to slot more recharge on a long cooldown attack.

Edited November 5, 2020 by josh1622

[Hew]

@josh1622In total absence of, I dont know, incarnates, any and all support powers already shoring up other abilities, I might agree with you. On SO enhs, I would surely agree with you. But there are SO MANY WAYS to offset minor values in slotting a single power, that the argument against slotting 1 or 2 powers as procbombs is totally shortsighted. 

 

If you build a set as a whole with set ios, or use even rudimentary incarnates, their function as a whole, for the entirety of the build, is so utterly game changing that a few end,damage, or accuracy from slotting a power is almost irrelevant.

 

To make the point: 

 

 

Less than half the recharge. 143% accuracy. Single 50+5 acc/dam/end. High proc chance on hold (grav anchor) which is synergistic with the aoe immob.

 

This is much much much better total value for the power. The only thing that would eclipse it by slotting is a purple wintero set for defense. 

 

Base damage on the power is 82 dragged out over several ticks. Again, unless I have no other way to get values from a set I shove in there, on purple frozen blasts (6 slotted), I get:

 

 

217% accuracy is overblown. 2 second improvement from slotting isn't aiding anything when you have chain filler. The power is doing at least 100 less damage. There is no diversity in that damage. You don't get holds out of it from grav proc. The built in recharge you are throwing at it from the set squashes the hell out of proc chance on the grav proc even if you slotted it. 

 

Everything has its purpose and place. Maybe you need slot bonuses in that _specific_ power, because they can't be had elsewhere. Other than that, if you don't need slot bonuses in the power that you can get elsewhere, maximizing it's utility really really really might not be met with any other form of slotting outside of procs.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Hew

[Hew]

Caveat: I didn't know procs worked this way till, hm, 2ish months ago. It was eye opening, and very depressing. I thought I was being smart by +5'ing trips in 4 slots to maximize damage/end/acc/rech. To find out how wrong I was was... well... really sad.

 

[Pzn]

You're using a power with a base recharge of 20 seconds.  Now that's being disingenuous.  So you think procs should be adjusted because you don't want to use them?  It didn't affect your build to learn of another option.

 

[CaptainLupis]

On 10/29/2020 at 3:10 AM, Panthonca7034 said:

I have something that hasn't been addressed or even touched on, because it seems no one else has wanted to bring it up:  GOLDSIDE (Loyalists and Resistance included)

 

Post (or after) First Ward/Night Ward (level 32-39, then Level 40-49)

 No additional arcs exist after handling Lamashtu or Serene, and there's no mention of the Devouring Earth preparing to overrun Praetoria, thus leaving huge story gaps... (Maria Jenkins' arcs do not meet the criteria of what I am referring to)

 

I had to trim my observations and concerns to keep focus on the thread topic at hand, and I will post my ideas in the Suggestions section

Number 6's arc in the RWZ is all about the DE trying to overrun Praetoria.

[Panthonca7034]

7 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

Number 6's arc in the RWZ is all about the DE trying to overrun Praetoria.

That's not what I'm referring to, and I've already played that arc... It left more questions than answers for me...

[Darmian]

8 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

Number 6's arc in the RWZ is all about the DE trying to overrun Praetoria.

You can't even do those if you're a Praetorian anyway.

[CaptainLupis]

Just now, Darmian said:

You can't even do those if you're a Praetorian anyway.

Seriously? Is that by design or a bug as that just seems rather silly. Why wouldn't they be able to go back to help their homeworld?

[Wavicle]

4 minutes ago, Darmian said:

You can't even do those if you're a Praetorian anyway.

What?! Why??

[Darmian]

I play a level 50 Praetorian (and getting there was not the easiest!)  but I can't help there because I cannot access the RWZ, or any area outside the 8 Praetorian zones and Pocket D. 

[Wavicle]

Just now, Darmian said:

I play a level 50 Praetorian (and getting there was not the easiest!)  but I can't help there because I cannot access the RWZ, or any area outside the 8 Praetorian zones and Pocket D. 

lol ok by “Praetorian” you meant someone who Never left Praetoria. You’re supposed to leave at 20. I thought you were saying characters who Started Gold side couldn’t do Number Six’s arc, which would be ridiculous.

[Darmian]

4 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

Seriously? Is that by design or a bug as that just seems rather silly. Why wouldn't they be able to go back to help their homeworld?

Ah, "go back".  That's the snag. I didn't leave!  But apparently not leaving means you can't help your homeworld because...plot?

[CaptainLupis]

1 minute ago, Darmian said:

I play a level 50 Praetorian (and getting there was not the easiest!)  but I can't help there because I cannot access the RWZ, or any area outside the 8 Praetorian zones and Pocket D. 

Wait, you didn't leave at level 20? So it's not so much that Praetorians in general can't, it's just your character that never left?

[Wavicle]

Just now, Darmian said:

Ah, "go back".  That's the snag. I didn't leave!  But apparently not leaving means you can't help your homeworld because...plot?

Because the starting Gold zones are not a whole world, yes.

 

I agree it would be cool if the game was set up to allow people to stay Gold side but it’s just not.

[Darmian]

Just now, Wavicle said:

lol ok by “Praetorian” you meant someone who Never left Praetoria. You’re supposed to leave at 20. I thought you were saying characters who Started Gold side couldn’t do Number Six’s arc, which would be ridiculous.

Well yeah 🙂  Since if you leave you're not a Praetorian anymore as far as the game is concerned.  None of your old contacts recognize you to say "no more missions for you", you've naturalized as Primal.

[Darmian]

4 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

Wait, you didn't leave at level 20? So it's not so much that Praetorians in general can't, it's just your character that never left?

Well, as I said, "Praetorians" in general, the game has two classes of Praetorians.  True Goldsiders and those who "got the ferry". LOL. I have a lot of fun though patrolling the streets of Imperial.  It's like being Superman.

 

And you just head to First Ward at level 20 and experience it that way. It's a very immersive experience.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Darmian

[CaptainLupis]

1 minute ago, Darmian said:

Well, as I said, "Praetorians" in general, the game has two classes of Praetorians.  True Goldsiders and those who "got the ferry". LOL. I have a lot of fun though patrolling the streets of Imperial.  It's like being Superman.

To me that's like saying someone that goes to work abroad automatically becomes a native of that country. Praetorian alts are still Praetorian wherever they go, as far as I'm concerned at least. If you have fun keeping yours there that's all that matters I guess.

[Darmian]

16 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

To me that's like saying someone that goes to work abroad automatically becomes a native of that country. Praetorian alts are still Praetorian wherever they go, as far as I'm concerned at least. If you have fun keeping yours there that's all that matters I guess.

Oh no, I get that, I do, our Praetorian SG is filled with toons post the Rift Enclosure mission.  The rest are majority 20 or under and about 6 of us are those who never left, 4 at Incarnate level.  But, if I talk to an Icon employee for example, even in our SG base, I get told that they don't speak to people from an alternate dimension, the crossers don't have that issue!  And laughingly Belladonna Vetrano says the same thing to me! Personally I don't distinguish between us, if I see a Daughter/Son of Praetoria badge on you then you're kin, but the game sees a difference.

 

I do patrol around Nova and offer advice where I can to those who haven't been Gold side before (plus the offer of membership of The Praetorians SG, where they might find some folk to team with) and generally try to encourage. And I'm on a lot so peeps in the SG can call on me to exemp down and help out with some ghouls or whatever if needed.

 

Other than that I'm exploring what the limits really are on a Praetorian who never left.  Still finding out.  I tend to stay at the back in iTrials in case the boss sees me though!

Edited November 5, 2020 by Darmian