Set Bonus Alternate 6 Slot Option

[Infinitum]

Well that's a mouthful, here is what it means.

 

I mentioned this on the top ten what would you like to see thread, but I wanted to describe my take on this in further detail.

 

Sets like Unbreakable Guard, Reactive Defenses, Shield Wall, etc - all have 1 unique Enh that you can only slot one of, but you can then 5 slot the rest of the set up to 5 more times to get the set bonuses.

 

Well what if there was a 7th non unique enh that you could use to either replace the unique, or use it once you have slotted the unique - or maybe even make using the unique mutually exclusive to getting more 6 slot bonuses from whatever respective set - 2 or more of the same set unique is then unsetable - unique is slotted anywhere then the 6 slotting that set more than once is off the table.

 

Some times where unbreakable guard is concerned the unique is only used for the 6 slot bonus - so another plus would be an actual enh to enh stats not provide a unique function you may not need.

 

So that's my idea, what say you all?

Edited October 5, 2020 by Infinitum

[FoulVileTerror]

I'd like to see an additional Enhancement added to all the Sets, so that we have a little more variety in determining how we want to reach those Set Bonuses, even the ones without a Unique to worry about.  That, or remove the rule where you can't have more than one of a particular Set Slotted in to a specific Power.  For example, all those Defense and Resistance Auto Powers, which have no use for Recharge or Endurance Cost; it would be nice to just Slot in the single-schedule pieces multiple times.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

yes more enhancement sets plz. There's a bunch of outlier powers that have no love. "Im looking at you acrobatics"

[Grouchybeast]

5 hours ago, FoulVileTerror said:

That, or remove the rule where you can't have more than one of a particular Set Slotted in to a specific Power.  For example, all those Defense and Resistance Auto Powers, which have no use for Recharge or Endurance Cost; it would be nice to just Slot in the single-schedule pieces multiple times.

And it would be even nicer to be able to slot all the quad aspect IOs multiple times elsewhere :-)

[Doomguide2005]

I'm okay with the idea of the OP. Having an alternate IO for a set outside of the unique would be okay, just need to examine whether the 6 slotted bonus should also be unique for that set.

 

On 10/5/2020 at 6:22 AM, Grouchybeast said:

And it would be even nicer to be able to slot all the quad aspect IOs multiple times elsewhere 🙂

The only issue there is 6 quad enhancements that also offer set bonuses is ... well wonky.  Quad enhancement values effectively ignore exemplar effects (i.e. a level 50 quad values aren't typically  effected at all until under 20, varies some by schedule), and added together provide far more total bonus.  Though to be fair I'm not sure off of the top of my head how much more.  But 2 def/rech (slotted in 2 slots of a power) is more bang for the buck than 1 def plus 1 rech in those 2 slots.  And then still get the set bonuses!?  Pretty sure that is a show stopper of significant proportions.

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding the line of thought with the 2 posts

Edited October 7, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Clarity

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding the line of thought with the 2 posts

I should've used a 😉 face -- I was trying to point out how overpowered it would be to let people slot multiple versions of the same set IO in the same power.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

I'm okay with the idea of the OP. Having an alternate IO for a set outside of the unique would be okay, just need to examine whether the 6 slotted bonus should also be unique for that set.

yah they aren't out of line from similar 6 slotted bonuses from other sets you can multi 6 slot.

[Doomguide2005]

22 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

yah they aren't out of line from similar 6 slotted bonuses from other sets you can multi 6 slot.

Yeah can't imagine that would get too out of hand.  After all there is the Rule of Five if nothing else.

[Omega-202]

27 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

yah they aren't out of line from similar 6 slotted bonuses from other sets you can multi 6 slot.

Some are.  Gaussian's and Expedient Reinforcement are two examples of Unique limited sets that have pretty strong 6 slot bonuses that probably shouldn't allow multiples of.  

[Doomguide2005]

50 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Some are.  Gaussian's and Expedient Reinforcement are two examples of Unique limited sets that have pretty strong 6 slot bonuses that probably shouldn't allow multiples of.  

Won't disagree, particularly about the value of +def.  But I'd also say that's a separate discussion from the main idea of an alternate enhancement option for sets containing a unique IO.

[Omega-202]

2 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Won't disagree, particularly about the value of +def.  But I'd also say that's a separate discussion from the main idea of an alternate enhancement option for sets containing a unique IO.

Is it a separate conversation?  Those two sets are examples of why this shouldn't be a thing / examples of how the devs originally balanced some sets with Uniques to compensate.  They gave those two unique containing sets a very strong 6 slot bonus to compensate for the fact that you can only get it once.  

 

Allowing for 4 Expedient Reinforcements 6 slots on an Illusion/Storm for example (PA, Phant, Tornado, Patron Pet) + the 2 Def uniques is 18.5% ranged defense, just in IOs.  

[Doomguide2005]

Well I guess a better way to put it is not so much separate as the later weighs heavily on former so while you can discuss both individually the later has veto power.  And even more so  than Gaussian's you've made a good case why an alternate  IO is probably a bad idea for Expedient Reinforcement.  Both the +def and + rech are quite desirable and getting one makes getting the other more 'costly' for a build.  In this instance you'd be getting both without cost to obtaining the other.

[Outrider_01]

On 10/5/2020 at 3:07 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

yes more enhancement sets plz. There's a bunch of outlier powers that have no love. "Im looking at you acrobatics"

There are some powers you cannot even make sets for, because there are no benefits that can be added to them.  Hasten/Acrobatics just add either +recharge or +status magnitude, which are un-enhanceable numbers unless you stack on top of them from bonuses.  +Status alone is binary in nature, you either have it or you don't; it isn't a secondary effect like Ice Attacks with -slow added to the primary damage.

 

On the other hand, more sets for current IO categories would work for other powers.  Some like Slow enhancements, are incredibly weak bonus in comparison +Knockback enhancement or +Stun enhancement groups.  They are different sets, but the bonuses alone can be weak looking in comparison

I would suggest a revamp, picking the Slow category cause its a good example.

• Increase all set ranges from 10 - 50
  • Curtail Speed: current 10-30 to 10 to 50
• Increase those odd ball 3 - 4 IO enhanments to the max of 6
  • Melee Sets: 4 lower level sets are 3 bonuses, another is 4
• Have common sets that are all yellow have weaker bonuses
  • Slow: Curtail Speed 10 - 50, recharge bonus 2.5.  Other bonuses should be a little stronger
  • Slow: Tempered Readiness 10 - 50, recharge bonus 3.5% is weak in comparison.  It should be 5%, with the other benefits should be better
• Have orange sets be stronger
  • Slow: Pacing of The Turtle has no recharge, but on paper its not much better Curtail Speed.  It should have something like 6.25%
• A lot of sets have similar bonuses
  • Melee sets: A lot of the first bonus +Fire/Cold resist, +Lethal/Smashing resist and most are 1.5% across multiple sets
  • Maybe add some lower number defense and change out the benefits to something other then just +resist on a lot of them
• More sets: 
  • -Def has 4
  • -Accurate Def has 2.  Sure, there are not a lot of Accurate -def powers, but there isn't a lot of choices in the set itself
  • Heal has 8 different sets
  • Accurate Heal has 2. 
    • Their are not as many powers that straight heal compared to Acc Heal, but Doctored Wounds +5 recharge beats +6 Heal for a set bonus for the entire set.  Accurate doesn't even have +recharge bonus
    • A +Dmg set for Accurate, to enhance attacks like Syphon Life.  Now you get enhancement healing as well as +Damage, won't be as strong as pure damage attack set but its a melee attack which now has a better heal attached to it.
      • Similar to Endurance drain powers.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

Some are.  Gaussian's and Expedient Reinforcement are two examples of Unique limited sets that have pretty strong 6 slot bonuses that probably shouldn't allow multiples of.  

Yeah to a certain extent but gaussians is naturally limited by what it is.  

 

I mean how much do you want to gimp your build by slotting that way for +10% defense - theres way easier ways to do that IMO that synergize with the build as a whole.

 

Invincibility, rage, focused accuracy, tactics- can you imagine 6 slotting all that for 10% defense - that wouldnt be worth it IMO cause those slot are way more useful elsewhere.

 

But I agree with what you are saying - gaussians could be a unique 6 slot set.

 

I am more referring to sets like unbreakable guard and shield wall which have good 6 slot bonuses similar to other sets.  Half the time I don't even like to use the UG unique but do so just to get the bonus.

[metacore]

I think this has merit.

Like giving UB a 7th enh for (rough idea) Recharge so if you have used the "normal" 6 enh in a power you can slot another 5 Resistance powers with 6 UB IOs by using the UB: Recharge IO.

 

Again some sets may warrant being excluded if the 6th set bonus is deemed too good but also that could just be a build choice.

As other have mentioned slotting 6 Gaussians multiple times (using this idea) for the +2.5/1.25 Def is a lot of slots that could be used elsewhere. If that's what you want to do then ok.