Thoughts on the evolution of the Rogue Isles

[Darmian]

I started writing this in the middle of the "Let's ungimp Lord Recluse" thread but it doesn't really belong there as that was really about the mechanics of the NPC in combat.  This is vaguer, but more, well, more.

 

There is so much potential for Recluse and the Rogue Isles following the return of Red Widow.  Pull back troops from Siren's Call. Retake Warburg and Bloody Bay. (Don't take away the PvP versions just copy them as PVE versions and give that option when entering). Initialize a program to "benefit" the citizens of the Etoile Islands. Think Cuba crossed with Latveria. Open a Conuslate in the heart of Paragon having negotiated with the UN. Huge building projects on some of the southern islands (as yet unmapped) to prepare for the Glorious 60th Anniversary of Arachnos Rule in 2024. No, you can't go there yet, but a lot of people are talking about it and there's a lot of ferry work heading in that direction. Longbow? Mainly undercover now since they were ordered to publicly leave the islands by the US government.

 

Scirocco? Gone, but who knows where?  Ghost Widow?  Not seen much since Marlene returned, possibly brooding, if she remembers how to do that. Mako?  Is that a fish? There's something in the water in Kallisti Wharf (Which is where that Consulate would be). Black Scorpion? There's always one...but old BS gets handed over to the UN for "war crimes" as part of that deal.  So what did Recluse GET from the deal?

 

And what about the time travelling Arachnos?

 

Recluse himself? No longer seen in Grandville. Daos now occupies the spot he once took.

 

It's a new day for the Democratic Republic of the Etoile Islands.

 

(I think if you want Recluse to be viable again you write him like a real person, and to be honest I've not seen that done since Web of Arachnos.)

 

Recluse himself knows he's not, to use an OOC term, end content anymore. So not seen? Him and Marcus Cole took a trip a long time ago, maybe he's on another one now...

 

 

Building program? It wasn't just the ACUs, BCUs and so on that were "liberated" from Praetoria. The builder clockwork came too.

 

More toys for Weaver 1 to fiddle with. And Weaver? Oh which Weaver?!

 

By pulling Arachnos back and giving them more actual control, as a government etc, you also remove one of the complaints that many players had, in that they're literally in your face all the time in the Rogue Isles.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Darmian

[CrudeVileTerror]

I am a whole-hearted supporter of Weaver content!

But whoever tackles it . . . they really gotta NAIL it.

The Weavers are . . . special.  They're transhumanists which make the Freakshow and Vahzilok look like bonobos.  They're on the level of Tzimisce or Hellraiser Cenobites, but using cybernetics instead of magic (although, I imagine the Weavers wouldn't ignore the use of magic, if they could ensure its use didn't interfere with their art).

The Weavers are beyond concepts like "good" and "evil" (which, ostensibly, makes them pretty frellin' evil, but whatev's).  They care only for the freedom which Arachnos offers them in their pursuit of evolution!   They aren't blinded by the concept of "perfection" either.  They know that there is no such thing.  Just endless change.

 

And, in that process, Arachnos occasionally gets the blueprints for a mostly-stable combat exoskeleton which is "on-brand" with Lord Recluse's obsession with spiders.

Win-win!

[Darmian]

Ah, but I never meant THAT version of the Weaver. Not that I wouldn't like to see what you're describing there.

[CrudeVileTerror]

Are we not talking about the same Weavers?   The ones who are nominally a part of Arachnos, simply because Arachnos provides them the protection and the playground for their work, while Arachnos gets things like the Tarantulas out of the equation?  Lead by Weaver-1, the most enigmatic of the Weavers, in no small part because they keep changing their own body to whatever flavour-of-the-moment happens to suit their interest?

This "guy?"

 

Am I screwing up my lore?  

 

Also, I might be a little passionate about the Weavers.  Note my "Magnum Opus" entry in:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/11876-new-difficulty-mechanic-advanced-enemies/

[Darmian]

No, you're absolutely right.  However I'm talking about the original Weaver, the one Red Widow murdered on Recluse's orders. He wasn't just  a lone leader and factions don't just roll over and play dead. I'm sure Recluse attempted a purge but probably didn't get them all.  And giving Weaver 1 the name of the original Weaver was surely a calculated insult to any that might still be around.

 

Politics is easier to do with less technical shenanigans than say creating Weaver 1 in game.  Note I didn't say easier to do well!

Edited October 23, 2020 by Darmian

[CrudeVileTerror]

See, while I remembered that Recluse technically stole Arachnos from someone, I totally forgot that it was someone named Weaver.

Wheels within wheels  . . . hmmmmmmm . . . 

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

  Pull back troops from Siren's Call. Retake Warburg and Bloody Bay. (Don't take away the PvP versions just copy them as PVE versions and give that option when entering).

I'd (PVE-copy) these ever so slightly differently.

Siren's - blue zone.

BB - Low level separate-but-equal (not necessarily 'co op' but... not necessarily not) zone. (Both sides being interested in the meteors and shivans and such.)

Warburg - Red zone.

 

Other than that... I like it.

[Darmian]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

I'd (PVE-copy) these ever so slightly differently.

Siren's - blue zone.

BB - Low level separate-but-equal (not necessarily 'co op' but... not necessarily not) zone. (Both sides being interested in the meteors and shivans and such.)

Warburg - Red zone.

 

Other than that... I like it.

That works!

[Sakura Tenshi]

@CrudeVileTerrorSo you’re implying Arachnos Weavers are arachnophile Adeptus Mechanicus?

[CrudeVileTerror]

God-Emperor, no!

More like Dark Eldar, but with less recreational drug use.

[Sakura Tenshi]

And here I thought Freakshow were Dark Eldar. Well, Dark Eldar meet Orkz since their cybernetics probably run on Waaagh! Energy.

[CrudeVileTerror]

Freakshow are -very- WAAAGH!!!

And I suppose I should be more precise:  Weavers are like the https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Haemonculi

[Greycat]

2 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

Freakshow are -very- WAAAGH!!!

And I suppose I should be more precise:  Weavers are like the https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Haemonculi

... starting to read that description reminded me of something (veering off topicish.) Ever read the Necroscope series? I remember one scene describing part of a lair where people had been ... "formed" into a pipe organ. It was rather a disturbing description...

[CrudeVileTerror]

Not off-topic in the slightest.  THAT is how I envision the Weavers.  Taking living flesh and asking the question "what -else- can I do with it?"

I imagine they'd be less purely sadistic or obsessed with sensations (albeit one or two of the Weavers might specialize in those fields), and overall be more obsessed with pure exploration and experimentation.

And since the Weavers are essentially a part of Arachnos, and this topic is about Arachnos AND evolution . . . yeah.  Kind of perfectly on-point.

 

But I think I've described my view on the Weavers sufficiently at this point, so I welcome others to share their ideas!   On the Weavers, Arachnos, or the Rogue Isles in general.  That was, probably, @Darmian's original intent with this thread, after all.

[Darmian]

Yep, you might say that!  But the Weavers are fine!

 

As my initial post said, my suggestions are rather vague and moreish, rather than particularized. However, as can be spotted across most of the things I post that aren't just random comments or reactions, it is all based on worldbuilding, plot infrastructure. If there's not more to do and find out along the way then why are we even here? If you implemented even one of my initial suggestions then that would cascade lots of stories from it, spilling off into who knows what?

[Darmian]

Also, Tzimisce?  Someone knows their VtM.

[CrudeVileTerror]

I play a newly-turned Tzimisce in a Monday-night campaign.

We have a spot open:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/19014-vampire-the-masquerade-and-bloodlines-too/?tab=comments#comment-277069

 

BUT BACK TO ARACHNOS!

Do you think that Arachnos would be willing to accept any Vampyri traitors from the Council or 5th?  Would Arachnos go out of their way to secure the necessary serums to keep such a traitor alive?

[Darmian]

FOR SCIENCE!  Aeon would, absolutely.  

[CrudeVileTerror]

*glances back and forth, then tentatively plods in to the middle of the thread again*

 

 . . . 

 

Redside Ms. Liberty.

 

*mic-drops and runs away*

[Darmian]

1 minute ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

*glances back and forth, then tentatively plods in to the middle of the thread again*

 

 . . . 

 

Redside Ms. Liberty.

 

*mic-drops and runs away*

AH!  I have such sights to show you!  But spoilers!

[CrudeVileTerror]

In all seriousness, I have seen some indications from Ms. Liberty that she wouldn't be too far from stepping over the line to -at least- being a Vigilante, if not for her . . . . hmm . . . what is it?   Ego?  Pride?  Stubbornness?  Contempt for Dominatrix?

-Something- about her countenance suggests to me that it's less the morality and ethics that are preventing her from operating out of the Rogue Isles as a naturalized citizen, and more of a wilful decision on her part.

 

I think it might be interesting to see her team up with Lord Recluse from time to time.  She certainly seems to think he's capable of redemption, at the very least.

Or am I crossing my lore streams?

[Darmian]

For me it's the existence of Longbow itself, something ol' States had issues with on a gut level.  I reckon he saw it as a mirror of Recluse's Arachnos, even if she didn't, and I think if he did he was right.

[Darmian]

I think (and for all I know they are doing this) the devs should have reread every single bit of Lore currently in the game, the comics and the novels, and anything in the Lore AMA that confirms or expands on what is in the game up to the sunset, and throw the rest of the Lore AMA out. Because that last bit is "coulda/shoulda/woulda...didn't". It's a shackle that will hold back their own development of the game. Sure, let it inspire you maybe but it's not set in stone. (And frankly retcon some of the complete **** of the comics while you're at it.)

 

Once that's done have a good think about where they want to go with Redside (we'll stick with that because that's this topic). I've sketched out my shaky idea of some of what could be done to give more agency to a player on a soft level. Couple that with looking at @Ultimo's frankly audacious theories about Agenda plans for villains (It's a hell of a lot of work but if even some of it could be implemented, even something as "simple" as building your own Ocean's 11 team, then that would add something). Who knows where we could end up?  

 

LOL, @CrudeVileTerror, imagine if Ms Liberty actually went vig a while back and that person standing in Atlas Park is actually Dominatrix trying her damnedest to fit in and be accepted because it's the only thing keeping her out of the same supes prison Emperor Cole is currently languishing in? She's not reformed (yet) but she always has her own interests in mind and on Primal Earth she has no allies.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Darmian

[ChocolateMercenary]

20 minutes ago, Darmian said:

I think (and for all I know they are doing this) the devs should have reread every single bit of Lore currently in the game, the comics and the novels, and anything in the Lore AMA that confirms expands on what is in the game up to the sunset, and throw the rest of the Lore AMA out. Because that last bit is "coulda/shoulda/woulda...didn't". It's a shackle that will hold back their own development of the game. Sure, let it inspire you maybe but it's not set in stone. (And frankly retcon some of the complete **** of the comics while you're at it.)

 

Once that's done have a good think about where they want to go with Redside (we'll stick with that because that's this topic). I've sketched out my shaky idea of some of what could be done to give more agency to a player on a soft level. Couple that with looking at @Ultimo's frankly audacious theories about Agenda plans for villains (It's a hell of a lot of work but if even some of it could be implemented, even something as "simple" as building your own Ocean's 11 team, then that would add something). Who knows where we could end up?  

 

LOL, @CrudeVileTerror, imagine if Ms Liberty actually went vig a while back and that person standing in Atlas Park is actually Dominatrix trying her damnedest to fit in and be accepted because it's the only thing keeping her out of the same supes prison Emperor Cole is currently languishing in? She's not reformed (yet) but she always has her own interests in mind and on Primal Earth she has no allies.

Given the nature of Dominatrix and humans in general, how has she not already built a gimp army?

[Darmian]

13 minutes ago, ChocolateMercenary said:

Given the nature of Dominatrix and humans in general, how has she not already built a gimp army?

No allies.  She has no leverage on Primal Earth beyond her own abilities and some scant knowledge of Praetoria. She's not stupid but if the story is accurate then she had a narrow circle of adherents (gone now as far as we know), a besotted Antimatter (dead) and the shadow of Grandpappy Cole and the Empire behind her (one defeated and imprisoned, the other in ruins). Those that might find her useful will see her only as a tool to be used. She knows that. She also knows that Positron & da Gang (for all their blahness to her) are her only option for actual freedom. The Rogue Isles might offer her something but her very existence is a threat to Recluse in a way that Ms Liberty isn't.  And Recluse is not sentimental (He was responsible for the death of his own father and his foster brother, Ezra Cole).  So at the very least she needs to (a) first get into a position where she could build that gimp army and (b) she liked being in a position of authority, however much she abused it in Praetoria and simply rebuilding a gimp force on Primal won't give her that.  She's not Primal Vanessa Devore or Countess Crey, she doesn't (didn't) stand in opposition to the prevailing power structure. 

 

Truth be told I see Dominatrix in some ways as more honest with herself than Ms Liberty. And a grey redemption arc for her would be interesting.  You might get a Paragon for Vigilantes/Rogues out of her.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Darmian