Demons/Necro secondary for soloability

[Rieitdd]

Hello All!

 

I am mainly a Mastermind player here, and really like both demons and necro primaries(for RP Purposes mainly)

 

But Im struggling with which secondary do pick!

 

I really enjoy the capability to kill stuff(with the pets) while surviving to tell the tale, but to a lesser degree than a /FF MM which is utterly boring. . . . . 

 

So far Ive tried demons/time (works but not as much as Id like), Demons/Dark (thematically I love the combo, but Im more a "buff to survive" than a "debuff to make enemies miss" so /dark sadly doesnt work for me.

 

tried /sonic but the lack of a heal on early game is a major problem for me (Im not rich to deck the character at level 10)

 

Thats when I started looking at other options

 

/Thermal seens nice, and so is /EA(But Im afraid EA will be overly cliky and get in the way of me controlling the pets)

 

tl;dr

 

What would be a good secondary for Demons and / or Necro to make them able to solo TFs and other endgame stuff without problems at higher difficulty levels (+4x8 or as close to that as possible)

 

 

Thanks!!!

[Force Redux]

If not Dark, then Time. Has everything you could want. Buffs, heals, debuffs, and a side of control. It's the king of secondaries.

[The_Warpact]

I have a Demons/Cold that I solo AV/GM's with and a Necro/Storm that's just chaotic fun.

[Force Redux]

59 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

If not Dark, then Time. Has everything you could want. Buffs, heals, debuffs, and a side of control. It's the king of secondaries.

sorry I see that you said you already tried time period I would go with the above recommendation for cold it's an awesome set and great at debuffing and buffing

[TygerDarkstorm]

I have a demons/cold and demons/storm that are both survivable solo and a lot of fun. Demons/cold was a little squishy through the leveling process, but once you get the 32 upgrade and the demons get all their buffs and heals, things start to level out some. Definitely seems to need slotting to get really beastly as my level 50 barely slotted demons/cold is no AV/GM killer yet.

 

I have a baby necro/nature MM that's level 17ish that seems like it should be fun as I keep going on her. Necro/Thermal is good too, but a bit dull; I recommend taking personal attacks/pool powers if you go that route.

[Rieitdd]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I have a demons/cold and demons/storm that are both survivable solo and a lot of fun. Demons/cold was a little squishy through the leveling process, but once you get the 32 upgrade and the demons get all their buffs and heals, things start to level out some. Definitely seems to need slotting to get really beastly as my level 50 barely slotted demons/cold is no AV/GM killer yet.

 

I have a baby necro/nature MM that's level 17ish that seems like it should be fun as I keep going on her. Necro/Thermal is good too, but a bit dull; I recommend taking personal attacks/pool powers if you go that route.

 

How do you deal with cold`s lack of heal ? to keep the pets alive that is.

 

Also, how would it compare to thermal? I believe cold is defense right? wouldnt it pair badly with demons as they are resist?

 

thanks!

[Riverdusk]

Demon/thermal sounds like what you want honestly.  It has buffs, it has heals, it has the -regen to take out AV for the TF soloing you said you want, it is thematic and from all reports one of the most effective combos out there.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Rieitdd said:

 

How do you deal with cold`s lack of heal ? to keep the pets alive that is.

 

Also, how would it compare to thermal? I believe cold is defense right? wouldnt it pair badly with demons as they are resist?

 

thanks!

Well, I went off of @nihilii's suggestion to just let the demons worry about healing themselves, and resummon them as needed. Now, I'm not great at building toons, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I frankly didn't think demons/cold was the god-killer a lot of people have made it out to be--I feel a lot more powerful on my demons/storm toon leveling up, but like I said, I think that has a lot to do with demons/cold being more of an end-game build that benefits heavily from IO's. Again, that's just my experience.

 

Cold's shields are primarily defense, yes, but that doesn't make them bad for demons. Gives them a bit more of a layered protection. And really, if you're choosing cold, it's more because the debuffs are so powerful vs. the shields being good--the shields are just a bonus.

 

Demons/Thermal is also a strong combo. Thermal has heals, shields, and a couple of great debuffs that can be used to take on AV's solo if that's your thing. I tried it, I found it a little boring for my tastes, but it is a tried and true pairing. Great set for if you don't mind not doing much and micro-managing pets, and a welcome addition to teams. (I have a necro/thermal and beast/thermal MM and thermal/sonic defender, so I have nothing against the set xD)

 

Again, I'm by no means an expert. I just really love MM's, have probably a dozen of them at various levels, and read a lot about them here and on reddit. I've been debating about trying a demons/nature MM to see how that plays out.

 

Edit: Also, I think once I27 hits, Demons/Trick Arrow will be worth taking a look at. Doesn't have a heal, but demons heal themselves and the debuffs TA brings should help them kill things faster. I tried a bots/TA on beta for a bit that felt nice to play.

Edited November 9, 2020 by TygerDarkstorm
more info

[TheSpiritFox]

I soloed the ITF on +1 with demons/nature. I really love that combo. Better debuffs and damage than /EA with barely any loss in survivability. 

 

If I were going to pair it with anything else for soloing I would do thermal. 

[Force Redux]

I have to be honest. I love /Dark so much, I have several of them. But I wish you the best with whatever secondary you choose! There are many good ones to choose from!  I like the recommendation about /Rad, too.  But for Necro, I really really like to double down on the control aspect of Necro with a secondary that has some controls to add to it. Plus the debuffages. 

[Rieitdd]

2 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

I have to be honest. I love /Dark so much, I have several of them. But I wish you the best with whatever secondary you choose! There are many good ones to choose from!  I like the recommendation about /Rad, too.  But for Necro, I really really like to double down on the control aspect of Necro with a secondary that has some controls to add to it. Plus the debuffages. 

I know /dark is pretty strong, it just didnt click with me . . . . Im much more of a buff and attack than control.

 

Trying thermal so far and it works good. will prolly be the first MM I take an attack on tho since I do have quite a bit of free time (managing pets is sort of easy with my keybinds on mouse lateral buttons)

 

Might try storm later to see it 😄

 

Thanks !!!!

[Rieitdd]

50 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

I soloed the ITF on +1 with demons/nature. I really love that combo. Better debuffs and damage than /EA with barely any loss in survivability. 

 

If I were going to pair it with anything else for soloing I would do thermal. 

 

 

 I did eye nature tbh.  .. .  one question tho, how do you deal with regen from AVs? 

 

Also, do you use that first power at all? (it seemed a waste to me that the first power on a healing focused set is actually a damaging cone)

[Force Redux]

Corrosive Enzymes? The first Nature power? Its a single target debuff...no damage, no cone. Its pretty handy vs. tough targets.

 

For MMs without a -regen, take along an Envenomed Dagger and get the Interface Incarnate that debuffs max HP. But most MMs sets should be able to out dps an AV's regen, even if slowly. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Force Redux

[Riverdusk]

Yep, having -regen helps, but AV's can also be taken down with enough dps and/or -resistance and MM's are usually good enough.  Force field might be the only secondary that might struggle a bit since it really offers no extra dps, -res,  or -regen in any way (bots overcome that with their own -regen so that combo is still popular).  Giant monsters on the other hand can be quite a bit harder, but I don't think there is a single TF that has a mandatory GM to kill.   The one in Numina isn't a full strength one so it doesn't count.

 

As said you can also just use daggers to help or incarnate interface.  You can also use the incarnate Longbow Lore pet that has -regen.  A MM is particularly suited to make use of Lore pets since they tend to help them with survivability that a lot of other AT's can't.  Of course the incarnate stuff is only good for TF's level 45+.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Rieitdd said:

I know /dark is pretty strong, it just didnt click with me . . . . Im much more of a buff and attack than control.

 

Trying thermal so far and it works good. will prolly be the first MM I take an attack on tho since I do have quite a bit of free time (managing pets is sort of easy with my keybinds on mouse lateral buttons)

 

Might try storm later to see it 😄

 

Thanks !!!!

Demons/storm is an absolute blast! I don't remember which user it was, but as someone on these forums put it, it's like bringing forth the apocalypse. 😄 

[TheSpiritFox]

13 hours ago, Rieitdd said:

 

 

 I did eye nature tbh.  .. .  one question tho, how do you deal with regen from AVs? 

 

Also, do you use that first power at all? (it seemed a waste to me that the first power on a healing focused set is actually a damaging cone)

Regen? Spore cloud does a bit of -regen. Not a ton, but enough to neuter a good bit of regen from anything not purple and not av. Mostly I deal with AV regen by outdamaging it. It takes a minute, but you can definitely grind down most AVs with demons, they do enough damage. 

 

The first power is great. Its not a damaging power its a debuff, -res and -dam is solid. Its only single target, but it lasts 30 seconds and comes up quick with any kind of recharge build. I left the first power at it's default slot, threw a +5 accuracy in it, and went about my day. 

[Rieitdd]

So, good news and bad news

 

First the good news is, I m going with thermal, and it is working nicely!!!

 

bad news. . . thermal goes really bad visually with demons. . . . . they have their own fire animations. . . . it does however, looks AMAZING With Necro!!!

 

Purple Flaming zombies . . . . .very cool, chill and thematically accurate for my character. . . .

 

So Ive redone him as a necro / thermal and came up with the following build. . .. any help on optimizing it is appreciated!!

 

Below the forum post(also adding the file for those who prefer it)

 

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Necro Thermal  v1: Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Necromancy
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Zombie Horde -- SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(5), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(5), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(7)
Level 1: Warmth -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(21), Prv-Absorb%(21)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11)
Level 4: Gloom -- CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-ToHitDeb(36), CldSns-%Dam(36), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Apc-Dmg(37), Apc-Dam%(40)
Level 6: Enchant Undead -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Plasma Shield -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-RechRes(23), GldArm-RechEnd(23), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(25), GldArm-ResDam(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 12: Grave Knight -- HO:Nucle(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(13), SlbAll-Build%(15), TchofLadG-%Dam(15), AchHee-ResDeb%(17)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36)
Level 16: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(34), GssSynFr--Build%(34)
Level 18: Soul Extraction -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(46), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(46), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(46), SvrRgh-PetResDam(48), EdcoftheM-PetDef(48)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 22: Kick -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ResDam-I(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(33)
Level 26: Lich -- ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(27), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(29), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(29), CldSns-%Dam(31)
Level 28: Forge -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 30: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), LucoftheG-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33)
Level 32: Dark Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- ShlBrk-DefDeb(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(39), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(39), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(40), ShlBrk-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Ags-Psi/Status(43)
Level 44: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(50), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), PrfShf-EndMod(45), PrfShf-End%(48)
Level 1: Zombie 
Level 12: Grave Knight 
Level 26: Lich 
------------

Necro Thermal - Mastermind (Necromancy).mxd

[Hedgefund]

On 11/9/2020 at 2:45 PM, Rieitdd said:

 

How do you deal with cold`s lack of heal ? to keep the pets alive that is.

 

Also, how would it compare to thermal? I believe cold is defense right? wouldnt it pair badly with demons as they are resist?

 

thanks!

I wrote a post about demon/cold and how the shields aren't just def and demons aren't just resists and how they actually intertwine quite nicely.

 

To answer the question directly, the passive mitigation makes the Demon heals sufficient for the most part.

[Psylenz0511]

Necro/thermal is an awesome combo that Dr. Vahzilok only dreamed of. Demons/thermal I wouldn't give up on , just keep tweaking the color options on thermal abilities.