Zone Travel Updates in Issue 27

[ZacKing]

Just now, therealtitanman said:

you only can use enterbase 50ft near the base portal. or inside portal zone like pocket d. once you leave you have to move anywhere has and near the base portal.

it works from inside a base as well

[Jimmy]

8 minutes ago, Drakwatch said:

Can't you use the /enterbasefrompasscode from inside a base? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the command as it is now has a cooldown, so you could in theory travel to a SG base, use /enterbasefrompasscode and then pop from one base to the next without going back to a different zone. From there you should be able to travel to any zone that the base has a portal to. Is that not what you're looking to do?

This is correct.

 

You can zip between bases instantly, and you can pop in and out of bases easily if you want to use the auction house, as the base beacons now drop you at the base portal.

[therealtitanman]

Just now, ZacKing said:

it works from inside a base as well

yup it work inside the base to base, but not outside, once you left you have to find nearest portal.

[Blackbird71]

9 minutes ago, Jacke said:

That should already be possible.  Outside of a base, the 5 powers allow use of the /enterbasefrompasscode to get into a base.

The problem is that due to cooldowns/charge use/etc., multiple of these powers need to be used when one should suffice.

 

10 minutes ago, Jacke said:

What I didn't mention is that inside a base, you can jump to another base with /enterbasefrompasscode directly. 

 

I'm aware of this.  I didn't say I was always teleporting from within a base; just a need to get into multiple bases often within short time frames.

[Number Six]

5 hours ago, @Ghost said:

An earnest question to throw out since I didn't really see it brought up here or in the feedback thread: what was the philosophy and thought process behind looking at the current slate of powers that now has a half-dozen components vs trying to engineer something at least closer to par in terms of simplicity with what already was there?

Those powers were all already there and had been there for a very long time. The only new power added was the summonable base portal. The thought process is to try to not remove or fundamentally alter powers that have been around since the Paragon/Cryptic days unless there are very compelling reasons. Even streamlining the Pocket D VIP pass into LRT generated quite a bit of controversy.

 

/ebfp was a post-shutdown addition that never should have been implemented that way. You can't compare it directly with the travel methods that existed for most of the life of the game and are now suddenly relevant again.

[Glacier Peak]

17 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

no one is preventing you from ignoring posts you don't like.  listening to opinions is a good thing because you'll learn something from them that you probably didn't think of yourself.  healthy debate isn't a one way street. 

The opinions that have been expressed in this thread have been listened to, and then restated, over and over and over again, throughout the thread. The HC team has acknowledged those opinions, over and over and over again. The same people continue to complain, over and over and over again.

 

There are other people's opinions being literally drowned out by the same few people posting their complaints over and over and over again. Can you tell me that this is fair to everyone? Can you honestly say that is the best way to give feedback?

Edited November 25, 2020 by Glacier Peak

[Jacke]

15 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

I didn't say I was always teleporting from within a base; just a need to get into multiple bases often within short time frames.

There's something under consideration that may help you out.  It's buried in the first post of this topic, so it's easy to miss (and I don't know how I didn't miss it either).

 

On 11/24/2020 at 6:47 AM, Jimmy said:

Zone Travel Updates in Issue 27

Issue 27 was released today, and it contains numerous changes to Zone Travel. The relevant section of the patch notes can be found in the expand at the bottom of this post.

 

[ snip ]

 

Potential Future Developments

Now to talk about what might come next. This isn't something we normally do for a variety of reasons, but primarily because we can never guarantee something is actually going to make it into the game until it's actually finished and released to the live servers. Any number of things could cause an idea or feature to get scrapped, so with that in mind, we'll begin this section with a big read caveat:

 

NOTE: Nothing in the below list is confirmed. It's just some options we're investigating for the future.

 

[ snip ]

 

Teleporter Batteries

The next thing we're looking into is the idea of Teleporter Batteries. This stemmed from looking at more modern MMOs (such as Guild Wars 2), where fast travel is instant once you unlock a destination (like with Long Range Teleporter), but has a small currency cost.

 

Enter Teleporter Batteries - these would be a special type of Salvage, which would instantly refresh the cooldown of LRT. You'll be able to access them via the Fast Travel menu (or through your own macros, popmenus and keybinds, or from the Salvage window), and then instantly use LRT to zip to another zone.

 

We'll also be looking at integrating batteries into the relevant Day Jobs in order to replace the duplicate powers, but what form that takes (or if it even happens at all) is completely up in the air right now.

 

[ snip ]

 

You may want to get involved so you can champion it in a way that helps it works the way you want it to.  I don't think you'll get a recreation of the free general case /ebfp command, but you could come close.  Think of Enhancement Converters.  I can easily burn through hundreds in a single session of converting enhancements.  Something similar on a lower scale for Base Teleportation shouldn't be that expensive.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jacke

[Blackbird71]

6 minutes ago, Jacke said:

There's something under consideration that may help you out.  It's buried in the first post of this topic, so it's easy to miss (and I don't know how I didn't miss it either).

 

 

You may want to get involved so you can champion it in a way that helps it works the way you want it to.  I don't think you'll get a recreation of the free general case /ebfp command, but you could come close.  Think of Enhancement Converters.  I can easily burn through hundreds in a single session of converting enhancements.  Something similar on a lower scale for Base Teleportation shouldn't be that expensive.

Ugh; no thank you.  I've already said that the need for charges is a detriment to frequent use of these powers.  Why would I want to have to purchase "batteries" instead?  It's an obstacle for the sake of being an obstacle.

[ZacKing]

10 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

The opinions that have been expressed in this thread have been listened to, and then restated, over and over and over again, throughout the thread. The HC team has acknowledged those opinions, over and over and over again. The same people continue to complain, over and over and over again.

 

There are other people's opinions being literally drowned out by the same few people posting their complaints over and over and over again. Can you tell me that this is fair to everyone? Can you honestly say that is the best way to give feedback?

again nothing keeping you or anyone from ignoring posts you don't like. 

 

10 minutes ago, Jacke said:

There's something under consideration that may help you out.  It's buried in the first post of this topic, so it's easy to miss (and I don't know how I didn't miss it either).

 

 

You may want to get involved so you can champion it in a way that helps it works the way you want it to.  I don't think you'll get a recreation of the free general case /ebfp command, but you could come close.  Think of Enhancement Converters.  I can easily burn through hundreds in a single session of converting enhancements.  Something similar on a lower scale for Base Teleportation shouldn't be that expensive.

Not a fan of paying for batteries either.  much better ways to create inf sinks in the game in my opinion.

[Blackbird71]

13 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

The opinions that have been expressed in this thread have been listened to, and then restated, over and over and over again, throughout the thread. The HC team has acknowledged those opinions, over and over and over again. The same people continue to complain, over and over and over again.

 

There are other people's opinions being literally drowned out by the same few people posting their complaints over and over and over again. Can you tell me that this is fair to everyone? Can you honestly say that is the best way to give feedback?

Others likewise tire of your complaining and white-knighting, and your posts do no less to "drown out" opinions than any others.  Are your complaints about people providing feedback really the best way to encourage communication?  Frankly I think posts like this do more to discourage others from posting their views, and so you will get less people willing to speak up rather than more.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Blackbird71

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Ugh; no thank you.  I've already said that the need for charges is a detriment to frequent use of these powers.  Why would I want to have to purchase "batteries" instead?  It's an obstacle for the sake of being an obstacle.

This suggestion hasn't even been put in the beta to test and you're dismissing it based on...?

 

Jimmy's post gives a detailed explanation for why this alternative was suggested. It offers the ability to instant teleport that many folks have requested while simultaneously maintaining the required risk vs. reward balance/if everything was free, nothing would be fun decision-making criteria. Can you at least provide an alternative solution to this suggestion instead of outright dismissing it? Give some kind of substantive feedback aside from "no thank you"? 

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

again nothing keeping you or anyone from ignoring posts you don't like. 

 

Not a fan of paying for batteries either.  much better ways to create inf sinks in the game in my opinion.

Jimmy's suggestion for adding batteries is based on other players feedback while maintaining time versus reward balance in the game. If gives the option to players who want to play faster, while maintaining the options for others who do not. Everyone can be satisfied, yet there are still folks who dismiss this suggestion without even testing it. I'm just so confused...

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Others likewise tire of your complaining and white-knighting, and your posts do no less to "drown out" opinions than any others.  Are your complaints about people providing feedback really the best way to encourage communication?  Frankly I think posts like this do more to discourage others from posting their views, and so you will get less people willing to speak up rather than more.

Yes, my posts about encouraging players to provide feedback is the best way to encourage players to provide feedback. And my posts about discouraging a handful of posters from posting the same complaints over and over again is also the best way to ensure every posters opinions are heard.

[ZacKing]

7 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

This suggestion hasn't even been put in the beta to test and you're dismissing it based on...?

reading it.  I don't have to taste the soup to know I won't like it based on the ingredients I already know I don't like.

[therealtitanman]

28 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Ugh; no thank you.  I've already said that the need for charges is a detriment to frequent use of these powers.  Why would I want to have to purchase "batteries" instead?  It's an obstacle for the sake of being an obstacle.

What if like this: 
everyone shared a portal zone

 

1 portal(player tp shortcut) > lounge > portal zone > the portal

-so gm can monitor the excessive tp in the lounge.

-pvp player can not tp to the lounge 

-charges will be imposed with your usage according to your level

-all chain tf quest will using this portal, avoid cheating.

 

this solved multiple type of tp which generate alot of bug.

 

all base will not be able tp anywhere, all have to go thru the lounge.

 

treat it like an airport.

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by therealtitanman

[elkhor]

Taking a minute to say thanks for the hard work and what a fine job you folks made there. The "Fast Travel" button alone is a godsend for my bars. You could just have disabled the GM-only command to address the issues it generated but you guys sure went the extra mile. Aside from the fact that we should rename the general chat "Read the Patch Notes" I enjoy my new toys.

 

Kudos on making Pocket D the first choice in LRT, you know me so well.

[Archiviste]

15 hours ago, Goldierays said:

Is there an issue with characters who had the Monitor Duty/Rapid Response badges before the update not getting the teleporter powers associated with them?

 

I've checked a couple characters that had the Monitor Duty badge already and they have no Monitor Duty teleporter even after some post-update hours logged by a base portal.

 

Whereas a newer character that just got the badge today, post-update, did get the Monitor Duty teleporter power with it right away.

 

Bumping this because I have a similar issue:

 

This character (Beatriz da Fontaine, on Everlasting) had the Rapid Response Member Accolade before I27, but does not have the Rapid Response Portal in her power list (the option is accordingly greyed out in Fast Travel). Do I have to "earn charges" by logging out near a SG portal to make the Accolade power appear ?
 

[Blackbird71]

7 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

This suggestion hasn't even been put in the beta to test and you're dismissing it based on...?

 

Jimmy's post gives a detailed explanation for why this alternative was suggested. It offers the ability to instant teleport that many folks have requested while simultaneously maintaining the required risk vs. reward balance/if everything was free, nothing would be fun decision-making criteria. Can you at least provide an alternative solution to this suggestion instead of outright dismissing it? Give some kind of substantive feedback aside from "no thank you"? 

I'm opposed to the principle of paying for recharges or any similar item in order to regain what was lost.  I don't need to test this to hold that view.  And I have repeatedly stated my proposed solution; I have not changed that position.

 

2 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Yes, my posts about encouraging players to provide feedback is the best way to encourage players to provide feedback. And my posts about discouraging a handful of posters from posting the same complaints over and over again is also the best way to ensure every posters opinions are heard.

That may be your intent, but I do not believe it is the effect.  Fewer people will speak their opinions if they think they will be jumped on by forum warriors, and your posts frequently give that impression.  Let the devs speak for themselves; you don't have to continually white-knight for them.

[Jacke]

6 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Ugh; no thank you.  I've already said that the need for charges is a detriment to frequent use of these powers.  Why would I want to have to purchase "batteries" instead?  It's an obstacle for the sake of being an obstacle.

 

It's not an obstacle, it's a cost.  ("Held up, minefield. Wait, out." is an obstacle.  Especially if buddy is now a smoking wreck.)

 

The cost is there to make sure the use has a cost versus benefit balance, as @Glacier Peak points out.  That the use isn't completely frictionless and doesn't have whole sections of the game devolve as what happened with unrestricted /ebfp.

 

I have to get Inspirations, Salvage, craft Enhancements, use Converters, etc.  So all that has a cost versus benefit balance, risk versus reward.

 

Or I could demand that Null the Gull actually get a setting to make me more powerful.  Without cost.  Without limit.  Without being frozen in gull form.

 

1 minute ago, therealtitanman said:

What if like this: 
everyone shared a portal zone

 

1 portal > lounge > portal zone

-so gm can monitor the excessive tp in the lounge.

-pvp player can not tp to the lounge 

-charges will be imposed with your usage according to your level

 

this solved multiple type of tp which generate alot of bug.

 

all base will not be able tp anywhere, all have to go thru the lounge.

 

Interesting idea to consider.  Thanks for posting, @therealtitanman.

[Jimmy]

2 minutes ago, Archiviste said:

Bumping this because I have a similar issue:

 

This character (Beatriz da Fontaine, on Everlasting) had the Rapid Response Member Accolade before I27, but does not have the Rapid Response Portal in her power list (the option is accordingly greyed out in Fast Travel). Do I have to "earn charges" by logging out near a SG portal to make the Accolade power appear ?
 

Answer was delayed a bit:

14 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Sorry, I missed that.

 

The power doesn't appear automatically. Day Job powers require that you be logged out at the relevant destination in order to earn charges. See the Wiki for more info.

 

If you logged in by the base portal after i27, then it would've retroactively counted the time (as Day Jobs are applied based on when and where you log in, not out).

[Glacier Peak]

19 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

reading it.  I don't have to taste the soup to know I won't like it based on the ingredients I already know I don't like.

I support you giving this feedback, I really do - but I know it won't be as helpful as someone who has tested the power in-game to verify an improvement or determent to playstyle, ensured the change did not alter other powers or game mechanics, or reduced the viability of other similar powers or abilities.

 

Actually testing something and providing feedback is far more valuable to our volunteers who don't have a ton of time on their hand than listening to "I don't like it" posts. Imagine being in their position, you have an hour to fix something in this game to make it better for the community, and now you've wasted 30 minutes reading through 40 pages of posts (I'm looking at you Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers) and there are only 12 posts that are actionable or can be addressed and the rest are "I don't like it" posts.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Glacier Peak
missed a word

[Glacier Peak]

4 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

I'm opposed to the principle of paying for recharges or any similar item in order to regain what was lost.  I don't need to test this to hold that view.  And I have repeatedly stated my proposed solution; I have not changed that position.

 

That may be your intent, but I do not believe it is the effect.  Fewer people will speak their opinions if they think they will be jumped on by forum warriors, and your posts frequently give that impression.  Let the devs speak for themselves; you don't have to continually white-knight for them.

It has been pointed out twice, in this thread alone, by @Jimmy that feedback that ignores the wider context of the change isn't that helpful. He has also said he doesn't appreciate the same posters repeating their arguments and clogging up the thread. He has even specifically responded to you, @Blackbird71 and told you outright that he doesn't "feel you're discussing this in good faith".  

 

Page 3, Jimmy said:

Quote

Honestly, feedback on specific components or powers of this system that ignores the wider context just isn't that helpful. Feedback that boils down to "I want to cheat and teleport at any time with zero investment" is also not that helpful, because it's a viewpoint that's fundamentally not shared by anyone on the team. Feedback about implementation absolutely is helpful and we did act on much of it. If you read through the original feedback thread and the many, many changes made since the first beta build (and the potential future developments detailed in this thread), you will see exactly that.

Page 4, Jimmy said:

Quote

Blackbird, based on your replies here and throughout the beta process, I really don't feel you're discussing this in good faith, so I'm just going to put an end to our exchange here because it's not going anywhere helpful for anyone.

Page 4, Jimmy said:

Quote

New feedback is always welcome, and will definitely be read. We just don’t appreciate the same posters repeating their arguments and clogging up the forum - that makes it harder for us to see the posts from new contributors such as yourself.

 

[ZacKing]

16 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Actually testing something and providing feedback is far more valuable to our volunteers who don't have a ton of time on their hand than listening to "I don't like it" posts. Imagine being in their position, you have an hour to fix something in this game to make it better for the community, and now you've wasted 30 minutes reading through 40 pages of posts (I'm looking at you Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers) and there are only 12 posts that are actionable or can be addressed and the rest are "I don't like it" posts.

if you've got 40 pages of "I don't like it" posts, that should be a good indicator that your idea didn't work.  Again, I can read what the changes are and the thinking that went into it.  I can test it all you want, I still won't like it and that will be my feedback.  take it or not.  I'm happy to try it out, but if only "hey I love it" posts are what the goal is, then don't ask for feedback.

[Glacier Peak]

Just now, ZacKing said:

if you've got 40 pages of "I don't like it" posts, that should be a good indicator that your idea didn't work.  Again, I can read what the changes are and the thinking that went into it.  I can test it all you want, I still won't like it and that will be my feedback.  take it or not.  I'm happy to try it out, but if only "hey I love it" posts are what the goal is, then don't ask for feedback.

Right! Yes! Both "I don't like it" or " I love it" posts are not as helpful as actual testing and providing substantive feedback or analysis. We are in agreement. 

[ZacKing]

4 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Right! Yes! Both "I don't like it" or " I love it" posts are not as helpful as actual testing and providing substantive feedback or analysis. We are in agreement. 

So you only want feedback that says it did or didn't work?  If you don't want to know what people like or dislike, don't ask for their feedback.