Could we possibly buff some invention sets so they give better enhancements?

[Vanden]

There's a few invention sets out there that have pretty bad enhancement values when you slot the full set. For example, a full set of Positron's Blast will leave you with around 45% accuracy and end cost and only 25% recharge. It's also way overslotted for damage, with about 125% before ED. That's really bad for a high-level rare set in general, and for Targeted AoEs in particular since they're usually very end expensive, take a long time to recharge, and occasionally have acc penalties. I don't know if this falls under the Cottage Rule, but changing some of the enhancements in the set to enhance more aspects would fix it. Right now, the enhancements in Positron's Blast are:

 

Accuracy/Damage

Damage/Endurance

Damage/Recharge

Damage/Range

Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

Chance for Energy Damage

 

What I would propose is to change it to:

Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

Damage/Range/Recharge

Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Chance for Energy Damage

 

At 50, that would make total enhancement values of 60.95% Accuracy, 95.5% Damage, 60.95% End Cost, 80.94% Recharge, and 12.75% Range. A much better spread, and one that's worthy of a set that requires expensive rare salvage.

 

There are other sets that could use this kind of improvement, but Positron's Blast is the one that really stands out to me as needing the help.

[Rylas]

Not gonna argue against wanting some better enhancement values, but I always thought the thinking for things like Posi's was that the bonuses were part of their enhancement balance. Still, I'd be ok with improving some of them.

[Solvernia]

there are more targeted AoE sets than just positron's blast, maybe use those

 

if you're really insistent on getting the 6.25% recharge bonus, then five-slot posi and then slot a 50+5 recharge IO (or an acc/rech from another set if you're paranoid about to-hit)

[Rylas]

there are more targeted AoE sets than just positron's blast, maybe use those

 

True, but to OPs point, it is a high level rare set. Its enhancements seem wonky for that. Also, Targeted AoE sets have a pretty small selection to pull from, so it would be nice if those few options gave better value so people have something they feel is an actual choice.

[Solvernia]

there are more targeted AoE sets than just positron's blast, maybe use those

 

True, but to OPs point, it is a high level rare set. Its enhancements seem wonky for that. Also, Targeted AoE sets have a pretty small selection to pull from, so it would be nice if those few options gave better value so people have something they feel is an actual choice.

 

imo the +recharge stacking from slotting multiple posi's blasts offsets the low recharge

 

that's probably why there is low recharge

[Ozium]

noticed a few lopsided sets, also would love when mouse over it would give total percents for quicker compare

[Rylas]

imo the +recharge stacking from slotting multiple posi's blasts offsets the low recharge

 

that's probably why there is low recharge

 

That's kind of what I was eluding to earlier. But how much damage is in the set is actually a pretty valid complaint. Why waste so much on damage? Putting more in end red or acc would be more balanced between the enhancement values and the bonuses.

[Solvernia]

That's kind of what I was eluding to earlier. But how much damage is in the set is actually a pretty valid complaint. Why waste so much on damage? Putting more in end red or acc would be more balanced between the enhancement values and the bonuses.

 

set IOs came after ED so I'm sure there's a reason for the surplus of damage

[Rylas]

That's kind of what I was eluding to earlier. But how much damage is in the set is actually a pretty valid complaint. Why waste so much on damage? Putting more in end red or acc would be more balanced between the enhancement values and the bonuses.

 

set IOs came after ED so I'm sure there's a reason for the surplus of damage

 

Yeeeeah, that's not exactly undebatable reasoning though, is it?

 

"I'm sure there's a reason, I can't tell you what it is, I just really want to say "no" to a somewhat reasonable talking point."

 

I'm all for constructive criticism, but you're not really providing it. You made a fair enough point, as have I, about balancing set enhancements with bonuses. But, come on, 125% damage enhancement is reasonably questionable. If you don't have the answer for it, it's ok, no one's asking you to.

[subbacultchas]

I was literally looking at this last night on my Corruptor, thinking, "Great, now I have to 5-slot Posi's and add a recharge IO."  I think Posi's stands out because the damage is beyond the ED threshhold by a fair bit, and it's not just the best of the Targeted AOE Sets, it's really kind of the only one to use.

[Vanden]

there are more targeted AoE sets than just positron's blast, maybe use those

 

True, but to OPs point, it is a high level rare set. Its enhancements seem wonky for that. Also, Targeted AoE sets have a pretty small selection to pull from, so it would be nice if those few options gave better value so people have something they feel is an actual choice.

 

imo the +recharge stacking from slotting multiple posi's blasts offsets the low recharge

 

that's probably why there is low recharge

There’s plenty of IO sets that give global recharge while also giving decent recharge enhancement. I don’t see any particular reason the Targeted AoE category can’t have one too.

[Shinobu]

If it’s the only one worth using, then it stands to reason that you don’t need to make it even better, you need to buff the sets nobody ever uses.

[Rylas]

If it’s the only one worth using, then it stands to reason that you don’t need to make it even better, you need to buff the sets nobody ever uses.

 

The only issue with that is bonuses follow (roughly) a schedule for how much bonus they give and for what amount of slots are required for that bonus. And on top of that, you can't go changing out set bonuses in a set. Some people have used those sets for those bonuses. So outside of adjusting what an IO enhances, I'm not sure what else you could do to those sets to make them more desirable. It would be less problematic to just introduce a few new sets for that category.

[Corruption]

Set bonuses can make up the differences in the end. That Posi set will give you +9% acc and +6.25% recharge.

[Vanden]

Set bonuses can make up the differences in the end. That Posi set will give you +9% acc and +6.25% recharge.

There’s plenty of sets that give good enhancement values and useful set bonuses. I don’t see any reason why Targeted AoEs shouldn’t have one.

[Shinobu]

 

It's not as if Obliteration for PBAoE is perfectly balanced.  There are a lot of older sets that have this problem.  But people like the AoE ones with plus recharge, of course, so they want those ones to be better.

 

 

 

 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I seem to recall posi himself chiming in on a thread much like this many a year ago. If my memory isnt playing tricks I believe that the short answer was because then there is alsoa  reason to use multiple partial sets. Frankenslotting set IOs was part of the plan for new build possibilities.

 

For example withthe right mix and franken slotting you can give bonuses equally around 9 or 10 old lvl 50 SOs on a power, yes hey will be varied but basically with clever franken slotting you can max out acc,rech,dmg, end reduction etc, and to do that you have to forgo the set bonuses from full sets.

 

That was a planned trade off basically. Making a set that perfectly min maxes the %  spread of each bonus would basically make full sets the only option.

[Vanden]

I seem to recall posi himself chiming in on a thread much like this many a year ago. If my memory isnt playing tricks I believe that the short answer was because then there is alsoa  reason to use multiple partial sets. Frankenslotting set IOs was part of the plan for new build possibilities.

 

For example withthe right mix and franken slotting you can give bonuses equally around 9 or 10 old lvl 50 SOs on a power, yes hey will be varied but basically with clever franken slotting you can max out acc,rech,dmg, end reduction etc, and to do that you have to forgo the set bonuses from full sets.

 

That was a planned trade off basically. Making a set that perfectly min maxes the %  spread of each bonus would basically make full sets the only option.

That would adequately explain the way Posi's Blast ends up overslotting for damage, but it doesn't really explain why it would underslot for virtually everything else. As I've said twice already, there's plenty of sets that give good enhancement values and set bonuses, and now that I'm at home I can actually list some of them.

 

6 Crushing Impacts at 50 will give 101.47% Damage and 68.9% Accuracy, Recharge, and Endurance, while giving accuracy and recharge set bonuses. And it's an uncommon, so it's much cheaper to acquire.

 

6 Obliterations at 50 will give you 96.3% Damage, 66.25% Accuracy, 89.93% Recharge, and 18.55% Endurance. It is pretty anemic on end cost; the Damage IO could stand to become a Damage/End (and this thread wasn't supposed to be about just Positron's Blast), but as a Rare set it has a proc taking up one of the 6 enhancements, and for six-slotting it you get an accuracy, recharge, AND melee defense set bonus, so it's still a good set.

 

5 Kinetic Combats at 35 (the max level for the set) will give you 85.45% Damage, 22.94% Accuracy, and 41.29% Recharge and Endurance. Low numbers, but it leaves a slot open for another enhancement; putting the Mako's quad in that slot brings it to 95.86% Damage, 41.49% Accuracy, and 59.84% Recharge and Endurance. If you drop the proc and put in an Acc/End/Rech from Mako's and you get 95.86% Damage, 62.69% Accuracy, and 79.93% Recharge and Endurance, and you still get to keep the big melee defense set bonus from Kinetic Combat.

 

6 Thunderstrikes at 50 will give you the same enhancement values as Crushing Impacts. No recharge bonus, but a big set bonus for ranged/energy/negative energy defense and an accuracy set bonus.

 

I could go on, but I think the point is made. Positron's Blast is a set that really stands out as one that doesn't live up to expectations.

[Solvernia]

Yeeeeah, that's not exactly undebatable reasoning though, is it?

 

"I'm sure there's a reason, I can't tell you what it is, I just really want to say "no" to a somewhat reasonable talking point."

 

I'm all for constructive criticism, but you're not really providing it. You made a fair enough point, as have I, about balancing set enhancements with bonuses. But, come on, 125% damage enhancement is reasonably questionable. If you don't have the answer for it, it's ok, no one's asking you to.

 

i disagree

[racarnevali]

I only just found out I could play CoH again, but I do remember that when it came to the sets, I strove for the bonuses. With Posi's Blast, the damage was maxed out, still had decent accuracy, recharge, endurance, and the set bonuses with 5 of them slotted gave some very nice perks (extra accuracy and recharge on all your powers), still leaving a 6th slot for something else you might like outside the set.

 

I know what you mean about having the damage so high, and it's tempting to make it more balanced, but with the set bonuses, I'm not sure the other stats need to be buffed. Yeah, ED will take away a lot of the extra damage, but I always found that I didn't need to get more endurance reduction or recharge, and I preferred the little bit of extra damage I got in spite of ED.

[Solvernia]

solution: five-slot posi's blast for the 6.25% recharge and stick an end/rech in from another set

[Vanden]

solution: five-slot posi's blast for the 6.25% recharge and stick an end/rech in from another set

A: There are no End/Rech IOs in the Targeted AoE sets

B: That still would still be rather weak Recharge

C: A workaround is not a solution

[Shinobu]

 

It sort of sounds like a frankenslot workaround was exactly the solution Posi envisioned, though.  Also, Javelin Volley Endurance/Recharge and technically you could slot Overwhelming Force: Endurance/Recharge as well, although that one's unique.

 

[Vanden]

 

It sort of sounds like a frankenslot workaround was exactly the solution Posi envisioned, though.  Also, Javelin Volley Endurance/Recharge and technically you could slot Overwhelming Force: Endurance/Recharge as well, although that one's unique.

I'm looking in the auction house in-game and there's no End/Rech in the Javelin Volley set. Overwhelming Force has it, fair enough, but yeah, it's unique and I'd rather not have to use it for frankenslotting.

[Shinobu]

 

Yeah okay, I swore I saw it there in Pine's but there's accuracy/endurance/recharge and damage/endurance/recharge.

 

I still think the bigger point is that Targeted AoE's other sets are so lackluster.  Nobody wants to slot Air Burst of Detonation for any reason, and Annihilation (which as I recall was a set added to the game later on, so as to expand the Targeted AoE options a bit) is not a terrible set but doesn't have much in the way of set bonuses for a min/maxer.  So everyone goes for Positron's Blast even if it kind of sucks.