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Mastermind changes in beta


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  • Mastermind Henchmen Summons have had their recharge times reduced:
    • T1 Henchmen: reduced from 60s to 5s
    • T2 Henchmen: reduced from 90s to 10s
    • T3 Henchmen: reduced from 120s to 15s
  • These summon powers are no longer affected by recharge buffs or debuffs
  • Mastermind Henchmen Summons have had their endurance costs reduced:
    • T1 Henchmen: reduced from 19.5 end to 5.46 end
    • T2 Henchmen: reduced from 19.5 end to 9.62 end
    • T3 Henchmen: reduced from 19.5 end to 13.18 end
  • Henchmen upgrade end costs have been reduced from 22.75 to 11.375
  • Note: This were some quick low hanging changes to help Masterminds out a bit, we are currently investigating further improvements to Masterminds for the future

These are a good start, but the upgrades still really NEED to be autos for the fast fix.

 

Fixing masterminds altogether will require then to be done away with completely (already known by pets,pet levels and availability reworked) and new powers in their place.

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No. I like these changes alot and I like buffing the way it is. With this change, resummoning pets is now simple as hell, making the buffs be auto removes an aspect of pet management that's actually meaningful in fights, and masterminds should not be able to just replace their pets like it's absolutely nothing. Masterminds need buffs, but making the pet upgrades auto isn't just quality of life, it's removing something fundamental about the feel of the AT that's been there since launch. 


 

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11 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

No. I like these changes alot and I like buffing the way it is. With this change, resummoning pets is now simple as hell, making the buffs be auto removes an aspect of pet management that's actually meaningful in fights, and masterminds should not be able to just replace their pets like it's absolutely nothing. Masterminds need buffs, but making the pet upgrades auto isn't just quality of life, it's removing something fundamental about the feel of the AT that's been there since launch. 


 

IE, because that's how it's always been progress shouldn't be made? I'm sorry but this "logic" is just dumb, and the FEEL of Masterminds is having the pets and using your support set to support them.

 

Having to waste any time upgrading especially in battle is just a huge annoyance, especially when you have to sit there and wait for them to even be targettable before you can buff them.

 

This has always been the MOST annoying part of playing a mastermind, and in fact the sole reason I avoided them on live except one until the upgrades were at least made aoe.

 

I have multiple mms now and this remains the continual most annoying part of them that keeps me from playing them as much as other ATs.

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10 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

IE, because that's how it's always been progress shouldn't be made? I'm sorry but this "logic" is just dumb, and the FEEL of Masterminds is having the pets and using your support set to support them.

 

Having to waste any time upgrading especially in battle is just a huge annoyance, especially when you have to sit there and wait for them to even be targettable before you can buff them.

 

This has always been the MOST annoying part of playing a mastermind, and in fact the sole reason I avoided them on live except one until the upgrades were at least made aoe.

 

I have multiple mms now and this remains the continual most annoying part of them that keeps me from playing them as much as other ATs.

This isn't progress. It's not improving any aspect of what masterminds have issues with, it is a pure quality of life change which changes yes, the iconic feel of masterminds that has been around literally since launch. I'm sorry you find it annoying, that doesn't mean it should be changed in anyway, because that's your personal annoyance vs an intended mechanic to balance out resummons. 

 

It was the most annoying part of masterminds when buffs were single target, and it has been a long time since the buffs were single target now. Now this is your personal preference, and while I can understand your personal preference and state mine is the opposite, preference is not an argument and neither is annoyance. Resummoning and rebuffing is part and parcel to pet management, and it's easy as hell to do now.  Making the buffs auto would remove both time and endurance cost for resummoning and make pet deaths pretty much irrelevant, which is NOT something which would positively impact mastermind balance. With the coming changes to pet summon cooldowns and endurance cost, making the upgrades auto would mean that losing pets as an MM is never a worry or an issue, and with enough endurance would simply allow you to spam pets in bteween power casts, it would make MMs more powerful in battle without actually addressing any of the issues MMs realistically have, purely to satiate your annoyance. 

 

That is not a good reason to make a change that genuinely affects balance. If this were just quality of life, that would be one thing. But it's not. Pet resummoning in combat is part of what affects mastermind damage, survivability, and ability to use their other powers. It means that at times there are tactical choices to be made, resummoning pets but having to fire a heal or do something else before you can buff them, having to manage your pets actively during battle in order to buff them. 

 

This kind of pet management is what MMs are all about. We are not controllers or Crab Spiders and what you want is to turn us essentially into a crab spider who can order our pets around. The upgrade system sets us apart from all other pet having ATs in a good way, an intended way which is centered around game balance. Making balance changes because you are annoyed is a bad idea, and changing the iconic feel of the class that's been around literally since it launched is not "progress" by any definition of the word. 

 

The truth is that you do not like masterminds that much. You do not like the intended design of the class and the complex and interesting control you have over your pets compared to literally EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMO EVER CREATED. There is no class, AT, anything in any other game that feels like a mastermind. There is no pet class and has never been that really captures the feeling of having, managing, and depending on your powerful minions like this. Upgrading pets is not a waste of time, it is a form of interaction with your pets that adds *depth* to pet control the same way that having stances and orders over just pets that follow you and attack based on their ai adds depth to pet control. The "wasted" time is an intended mechanic. 

 

Like, I get that you probably mostly play characters designed to just run into groups and murder without having to think about it much. Just go in and start throwing out damage or whatever. That is not what masterminds are or have ever been and changing them to be closer to the feeling of other pet classes in this game would be a step backwards, not a step forwards. 

 

And like, I've mained masterminds since they came out. If we're going to depend on opinions, no offense, but your annoyance as someone who dabbles in MMs should not be more important than my enjoyment of pet management being a part of the mastermind experience including managing upgrades. MM pets should not be pets you just summon and don't think about beyond their health bars, and that's the direction you're going with this. 

Edited by TheSpiritFox
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21 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

This isn't progress. It's not improving any aspect of what masterminds have issues with, it is a pure quality of life change which changes yes, the iconic feel of masterminds that has been around literally since launch. I'm sorry you find it annoying, that doesn't mean it should be changed in anyway, because that's your personal annoyance vs an intended mechanic to balance out resummons. 

 

It was the most annoying part of masterminds when buffs were single target, and it has been a long time since the buffs were single target now. Now this is your personal preference, and while I can understand your personal preference and state mine is the opposite, preference is not an argument and neither is annoyance. Resummoning and rebuffing is part and parcel to pet management, and it's easy as hell to do now.  Making the buffs auto would remove both time and endurance cost for resummoning and make pet deaths pretty much irrelevant, which is NOT something which would positively impact mastermind balance. With the coming changes to pet summon cooldowns and endurance cost, making the upgrades auto would mean that losing pets as an MM is never a worry or an issue, and with enough endurance would simply allow you to spam pets in bteween power casts, it would make MMs more powerful in battle without actually addressing any of the issues MMs realistically have, purely to satiate your annoyance. 

 

That is not a good reason to make a change that genuinely affects balance. If this were just quality of life, that would be one thing. But it's not. Pet resummoning in combat is part of what affects mastermind damage, survivability, and ability to use their other powers. It means that at times there are tactical choices to be made, resummoning pets but having to fire a heal or do something else before you can buff them, having to manage your pets actively during battle in order to buff them. 

 

This kind of pet management is what MMs are all about. We are not controllers or Crab Spiders and what you want is to turn us essentially into a crab spider who can order our pets around. The upgrade system sets us apart from all other pet having ATs in a good way, an intended way which is centered around game balance. Making balance changes because you are annoyed is a bad idea, and changing the iconic feel of the class that's been around literally since it launched is not "progress" by any definition of the word. 

 

The truth is that you do not like masterminds that much. You do not like the intended design of the class and the complex and interesting control you have over your pets compared to literally EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMO EVER CREATED. There is no class, AT, anything in any other game that feels like a mastermind. There is no pet class and has never been that really captures the feeling of having, managing, and depending on your powerful minions like this. Upgrading pets is not a waste of time, it is a form of interaction with your pets that adds *depth* to pet control the same way that having stances and orders over just pets that follow you and attack based on their ai adds depth to pet control. The "wasted" time is an intended mechanic. 

 

Like, I get that you probably mostly play characters designed to just run into groups and murder without having to think about it much. Just go in and start throwing out damage or whatever. That is not what masterminds are or have ever been and changing them to be closer to the feeling of other pet classes in this game would be a step backwards, not a step forwards. 

 

And like, I've mained masterminds since they came out. If we're going to depend on opinions, no offense, but your annoyance as someone who dabbles in MMs should not be more important than my enjoyment of pet management being a part of the mastermind experience including managing upgrades. MM pets should not be pets you just summon and don't think about beyond their health bars, and that's the direction you're going with this. 

Except all it basically does is add to "summon" times, which is exactly what the devs are trying to fix in this beta patch. The main part of "managing" pets is supporting them with your support set, and controlling them, what they do, how they act, and where they are in positions to the mob etc. Having a longer "summon" time does nothing to help the playstyle of the MM, and only serves as a hindrance to the class.

 

It always amuses me that there will be a couple die hard forumites that cry havoc when this is suggested, yet literally every single person i'll speak with in game about it also agrees that the upgrades need to be automatic, if not done away with altogether. This isn't even going to the fact that most MM pets until 32 are terrible, and is also not speaking to the fact that this does not translate well when exemplaring as well. Especially in situations where say synapse tf, where you do not get the extra 2ndary pet, while other classes are still fully able to utilize their level 22 and level 24 powers.

 

At the VERY least, one of the main issues with using the upgrade powers is how you can't even affect the pet until they become actually target-table. At the absolute very least, the upgrades need to be pbaoe instead of a targeted buff so you can cast it without having to actually target a/the pet first.

 

Just because you main in MMs, does not mean that I am any less versed in the playstyle and mechanics of masterminds, that I don't have countless hours playing them with multiple 50s of different primaries and secondaries, playing through to 50 without PL'ing or even doing pi council teams (which in all versions, unequivocally these upgrade powers have been the greatest annoyance of each one), nor does it mean I "don't like MMs". I in fact do very much, which is why this aspect IS so annoying and ruins the actual fun you could be having with them, because i can see their potential, and they are just being unfarily held back by these upgrade powers.

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17 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Except all it basically does is add to "summon" times, which is exactly what the devs are trying to fix in this beta patch. The main part of "managing" pets is supporting them with your support set, and controlling them, what they do, how they act, and where they are in positions to the mob etc. Having a longer "summon" time does nothing to help the playstyle of the MM, and only serves as a hindrance to the class.

 

It always amuses me that there will be a couple die hard forumites that cry havoc when this is suggested, yet literally every single person i'll speak with in game about it also agrees that the upgrades need to be automatic, if not done away with altogether. This isn't even going to the fact that most MM pets until 32 are terrible, and is also not speaking to the fact that this does not translate well when exemplaring as well. Especially in situations where say synapse tf, where you do not get the extra 2ndary pet, while other classes are still fully able to utilize their level 22 and level 24 powers.

 

At the VERY least, one of the main issues with using the upgrade powers is how you can't even affect the pet until they become actually target-table. At the absolute very least, the upgrades need to be pbaoe instead of a targeted buff so you can cast it without having to actually target a/the pet first.

 

Just because you main in MMs, does not mean that I am any less versed in the playstyle and mechanics of masterminds, that I don't have countless hours playing them with multiple 50s of different primaries and secondaries, playing through to 50 without PL'ing or even doing pi council teams (which in all versions, unequivocally these upgrade powers have been the greatest annoyance of each one), nor does it mean I "don't like MMs". I in fact do very much, which is why this aspect IS so annoying and ruins the actual fun you could be having with them, because i can see their potential, and they are just being unfarily held back by these upgrade powers.

You're literally talking about the 5 seconds it takes to make sure your pets are in range and cast 2 powers. 

 

Like, "unfairly held back" by 5 seconds of buff time is ridiculous. That's absurd hyperbole. And I go back to "It's the most annoying part of being a mastermind" which is where your hyperbole comes from. They are not held back by buffing at all, its simply a small part of pet management. Also, some of your other complaints like how exemplaring affects masterminds have nothing to do with how buffing works. Yes, masterminds have a rough spot in the 20s before the 32 upgrade, that has nothing to do with how buffing works. Yes, we have  which pets are out affected by our levels, that has nothing to do with how buffing works. You're stacking issues on this one thing as if they're relevant and I'm going to remind you that the only actual argument you have is "I find it annoying" and "its not meaningful" which is pure personal opinion. 

 

You've not addressed the fact that MMs are balanced around pet resummons. You're supposed to lose pets sometimes, and losing pets is supposed to be more than just a 2 second power cast to fix. That was always the intended design and it sets MM pets apart from all other pets. The fact that you want to essentially homogenize pets does nothing for the game or the AT, except to make you less annoyed by the class, which is again not a reason to make a change if it's going to affect the balance of MMs. 

 

That said, the PBAOE change I wouldn't mind, targeting a pet or not targeting a pet is irrelevant. The "can't affect until they're targetable" thing seems more like a hardcoded mechanic not by design but simply because until the pets fully summon in they do not exist to upgrade, which is why sometimes you can upgrade like all but one pet if you upgrade too early when like 5/6 pets are out and the last is in the process of animating it's arrival. 

 

And I kinda have the opposite experience. Most people do not care, there are a few people like you who feel that 5 seconds of cast time is wasting your time in some manifest way enough to have an emotional reaction to it and decide that something about the class that is a part of the feel of the entire way the AT works needs to be changed. 

 

And I'll remind you, sure you may have lots of MMs and lots of hours. I MAIN mms. This is the primary class I play and all of my 50 mms are vet level 50+. So if the argument is personal preference, the weight of opinions like mine should have much more weight than yours, because the majority of my play time in City of Heroes is dedicated to MMs compared to you, I am more invested in this class than you, and my play experience would be more impacted by this change than yours will be if the change is not made. I'm not going to engage in an "everyone wants this" argument cause frankly I think that's kinda BS. There are NOT alot of people like you who have a strong enough reaction to this to call buffing the most annoying part of playing an MM. 

 

Based on the suggestions thread, the most annoying parts of playing an mm based on widespread feedback are

 

- Pets not being your level affecting how they work esp vs purple patch

- Pet IO choices being extremely limited due to the need for the aura IOs and pets often not taking io sets they genuinely should take

- Some MM sets are straight up weak and need buffs for pet survivability outside of IO changes

- Specific MM prmary powers are useless or bad (serum and repair primarily)

- MM powers cost too much endurance for what they do in a way that's not actually balanced and gives MMs endurance issues especially if they try to take attacks and have any attack chain

 

Edited by TheSpiritFox
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I like having to buff after summons, because it does increase the tactical complexity of the game. This may not be the case for all MMs, but some like a /Kin who is in a fight where they lost some henchmen... likely the fight is busy. They still have to throw out a Heal often, maybe Siphon Power/Speed, and some other powers. The Buffs eat into your animation time, and to me THIS IS FAIR. You want your henchmen buffed, that's fine, but take the time to do it. Making it automatic removes a tactical choice of using an attack right now to defeat one mob sooner and reduce incoming damage, OR throw out an AoE HEAL, OR buff the new summons so they start doing more damage sooner, etc.

 

The only really good argument for making buffs automatic would be that it would free up two power slots that right now have very unimaginative powers. Every MM gets them, all at the same levels, and they all do about the same thing... if we got them automatically (but had to click to use them), then we could get 2 new and hopefully more interesting powers for each set. But that's a character building issue, not a play issue, because even then I would still want the powers to be auto-GRANTED to the MM, but not auto-CAST on the new summons.

 

Yeah, doing otherwise would be simpler and easier. Simpler and easier is sometimes better, and sometimes not. IMO, the tactical choice of "do I immediately buff a new summons or do I do somethign else to win this fight sooner and buff afterwards" is a choice that makes the AT more complex and thus more interesting to play.

 

I like complexity... YMMV.

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2 minutes ago, Coyote said:

I like having to buff after summons, because it does increase the tactical complexity of the game. This may not be the case for all MMs, but some like a /Kin who is in a fight where they lost some henchmen... likely the fight is busy. They still have to throw out a Heal often, maybe Siphon Power/Speed, and some other powers. The Buffs eat into your animation time, and to me THIS IS FAIR. You want your henchmen buffed, that's fine, but take the time to do it. Making it automatic removes a tactical choice of using an attack right now to defeat one mob sooner and reduce incoming damage, OR throw out an AoE HEAL, OR buff the new summons so they start doing more damage sooner, etc.

 

The only really good argument for making buffs automatic would be that it would free up two power slots that right now have very unimaginative powers. Every MM gets them, all at the same levels, and they all do about the same thing... if we got them automatically (but had to click to use them), then we could get 2 new and hopefully more interesting powers for each set. But that's a character building issue, not a play issue, because even then I would still want the powers to be auto-GRANTED to the MM, but not auto-CAST on the new summons.

 

Yeah, doing otherwise would be simpler and easier. Simpler and easier is sometimes better, and sometimes not. IMO, the tactical choice of "do I immediately buff a new summons or do I do somethign else to win this fight sooner and buff afterwards" is a choice that makes the AT more complex and thus more interesting to play.

 

I like complexity... YMMV.

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19 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

- Pets not being your level affecting how they work esp vs purple patch

- Pet IO choices being extremely limited due to the need for the aura IOs and pets often not taking io sets they genuinely should take

- Some MM sets are straight up weak and need buffs for pet survivability outside of IO changes

- Specific MM prmary powers are useless or bad (serum and repair primarily)

- MM powers cost too much endurance for what they do in a way that's not actually balanced and gives MMs endurance issues especially if they try to take attacks and have any attack chain

These are all still concerns, and also issues of the class which I pointed some out in my earlier post. I agree with these issues, but these are issues with more-so power stats/numbers etc. What I was talking about was the actual PLAYSTYLE of MMs being the issue. The management comes in supporting those pets with your secondary, and controlling where they go and what they do. Having to cast the upgrades is essentially just another form of summon, that other AT's do not have to deal with. That would essentially be like having to activate a second power to "change your stance" or something before using a main control or attack etc.

 

Masterminds are balanced around the fact that your damage and armor is invested in the pets, and you need to keep them alive and tell them what to do for optimum efficiency, rather than just attacking/controlling yourself.

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One use case against auto-upgrade I can think of from the top of my head:  Sometimes as a Thugs/* MM, you don't want the Arsonist chucking dynamite.  If I'm on a team without much in the way of controls and I don't have access to my APP immobilize, the Arsonist will scatter things all over with his Dynamite burn patches.  I can dismiss+resummon him after fully upgrading everyone else, then just do the first upgrade, then he's not such a terror.

Or I can just dismiss the guy entirely and let the Enforcers pick up the slack, if I was having to use auto-upgrade.

An alternative mechanic could be something like the Practiced Brawler/Master Brawler mutually-exclusive pick Sentinels get.  You can pick the regular manual upgrade power OR you can pick the auto-upgrade version of the power, but not both. 

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There's a lot of text here, but I can save you all a lot of time and back and forth.

 

We considered making upgrade powers auto a while back (9-12 months) because it was a player suggestion that had come up a few times, but ultimately ruled it out. The reason was that there has to be some opportunity cost to give the player an incentive to try and keep their pets alive. If you want to get them back up to full strength, you have to spend extra time not using your secondary powers to do it.

 

So while the changes on beta are intended to make life a little less painful when they do die, the intent is not to make it trivial to have an infinite supply of full-strength pets out.

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31 minutes ago, Number Six said:

If you want to get them back up to full strength, you have to spend extra time not using your secondary powers to do it.

 

Clearly and succintly stated.

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32 minutes ago, Number Six said:

There's a lot of text here, but I can save you all a lot of time and back and forth.

 

We considered making upgrade powers auto a while back (9-12 months) because it was a player suggestion that had come up a few times, but ultimately ruled it out. The reason was that there has to be some opportunity cost to give the player an incentive to try and keep their pets alive. If you want to get them back up to full strength, you have to spend extra time not using your secondary powers to do it.

 

So while the changes on beta are intended to make life a little less painful when they do die, the intent is not to make it trivial to have an infinite supply of full-strength pets out.

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49 minutes ago, Number Six said:

There's a lot of text here, but I can save you all a lot of time and back and forth.

 

We considered making upgrade powers auto a while back (9-12 months) because it was a player suggestion that had come up a few times, but ultimately ruled it out. The reason was that there has to be some opportunity cost to give the player an incentive to try and keep their pets alive. If you want to get them back up to full strength, you have to spend extra time not using your secondary powers to do it.

 

So while the changes on beta are intended to make life a little less painful when they do die, the intent is not to make it trivial to have an infinite supply of full-strength pets out.

Then as the devs are officially making a stance that they're not going to be auto, that at the very least could you please make the upgrade powers pbaoe so you don't have to actually target the pet in battle to upgrade them. Additionally part of the issue as well is the actual summoning, where they don't become buffable right away as well. It would be nice if all the summons were updated to be buffable as soon as you cast the summon power.

 

It also seems odd  having to use two separate buffing powers each time, for each pet in battle, especially as they're dying and all you end up doing is casting and resummoning and upgrading the fight which goes beyond any opportunity cost that any other set has to deal with. It would be nice if once you get the level 32 upgrade, that it would override the previous one, and you would then just need to cast the larger upgrade power (or either one) to apply both upgrades.

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1 hour ago, Decaying Rose said:

An alternative mechanic could be something like the Practiced Brawler/Master Brawler mutually-exclusive pick Sentinels get.  You can pick the regular manual upgrade power OR you can pick the auto-upgrade version of the power, but not both. 

I was literally about to suggest this lol. I still can not fathom anyone actually liking the upgrades especially having to use them in battle, as there are already opportunity costs to having your whole primary mainly based on the pets, which for one, is the fact that their skills can't even be sped up, especially the aoes and holds.

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1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Then as the devs are officially making a stance that they're not going to be auto, that at the very least could you please make the upgrade powers pbaoe so you don't have to actually target the pet in battle to upgrade them.

 

I like that idea: the targeting is a relic of when they were single-target powers, now that they're AoE it doesn't really make a whole ton of sense to have to target one to use it.

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1 hour ago, Number Six said:

 

I like that idea: the targeting is a relic of when they were single-target powers, now that they're AoE it doesn't really make a whole ton of sense to have to target one to use it.

If you make it a PBAOE make it so that all the pets do the upgrade animation plz

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Aside from the fact that you don't want certain pets to have access to an their powers (Arsonist is an example already, but the Assault Not actually loses DPS getting the first upgrade, due to the flamethrower being just so slow, and the Bruiser with handclap used to be a running joke) doing the upgrades doesn't take long, and it's permanent for the life of the pets.

 

With the 6 auras, and a good secondary, you can literally go hours without having to resummon pets, so it's very much a "one and done" power. What other AT has access to that level of cost benefit? Even with full IOs?

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10 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

it's removing something fundamental about the feel of the AT that's been there since launch.

I disagree, it (auto buffs) is a stepping stone to fixing the AT.  Because if you forgot or did not know, there was a time where MM pet upgrades were single target and required slotting beyond 1 endredux

and im like 90% sure on this, but pets required resummoning and rebuffing every time you zoned.

 

and i hope that auto upgrades happen at some point and gatta take it one step at a time.

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2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

I disagree, it (auto buffs) is a stepping stone to fixing the AT.  Because if you forgot or did not know, there was a time where MM pet upgrades were single target and required slotting beyond 1 endredux

and im like 90% sure on this, but pets required resummoning and rebuffing every time you zoned.

 

and i hope that auto upgrades happen at some point and gatta take it one step at a time.

Dude I literally made a bots/traps the day CoV launched. 

 

Auto upgrades would be an actively bad choice for the AT that would harm game balance. MMs are balanced around a number of factors, including resummon costs. Resummoning and rebuffing is meant to take time and endurance, not to be just like "if something dies a 1-2 second cast time later its like it never happened"

 

The entire point is to FORCE you to choose between like, cast support power on team mate, make sure living pets are still alive, decide if you wanna throw one or two more attacks or if you want to buff your pets back up immediately. These choices matter during fights, they create tactical situations where there are trade offs to whatever choice you make in battle, which makes fights more varied and interesting. MMs are NOT the "spam 5 powers in a rotation until stuff dies" class and should not be. 

 

This is not something that is broken about the AT. MM pets are by far the strongest pet entities in the game, and MMs are in their current state and with the right set picks and IO builds, some of the most powerful characters you can have in both solo and group content. Resummon time and cost is, as has been stated above, incentive for the player to attempt to keep their pets alive. That's not a broken feature of the class, it is an intended design to create opportunity cost to choices during fights. We are very powerful, but we must maintain that power and protect it, and if we do not we have to spend precious time fixing the issue. In a game where most encounters are not like WoW raid boss length, time matters more, decisions matter more, and having pet resummons cost time gives you genuine incentive to keep your pets alive, pay attention to where they are, what they're doing, how much health they have, what they're fighting. 

 

We are Masterminds. If any AT in this game should have detail oriented mechanics, tactical choices in combat, and complexity to keep track of, it is us. 

 

Or if you want to hear it from someone smarter than me lol

 

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All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates.

-Professor Mordin Solus

 

Edited by TheSpiritFox
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16 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

Auto upgrades would be an actively bad choice for the AT that would harm game balance. MMs are balanced around a number of factors, including resummon costs. Resummoning and rebuffing is meant to take time and endurance, not to be just like "if something dies a 1-2 second cast time later its like it never happened"

This is theorycrafting.  I dunno if you played masterminds even in ITF or anywhere near endgame, but they lack hardcore.  But because this game is easy enough to give a passing by "oh anything is viable if you think hard enough".  All other ATs come ready to go, i dont see why masterminds should not.  The almost equivalent of this is players getting toggles turned off randomly.

 

Pets do not benefit from mastermind's outside buffs (fort, forge, insps etc) - yes i am aware of earth/ambrosia in the beta notes

Pets have a low base damage, and low base damage cap.  Yes I am aware that there are 6 of them can balance it out, but does not.

Pets do not benefit from IOs.

 

Now the IO thing is huge, while the game is balanced around SOs, every player and their mothers alt account is riddled with IOs.  And not having pets sharing IO bonuses is what holds masterminds back from being on the same level as other ATs

 

With all that said, having auto-upgrades is a small step, but a step in the right direction.  Nothing of roleplay, or mechanical value is gained by not having pets auto upgraded on summon.  Even thematically a mastermind would have that shit ready to go as the mercs parachute down(or jumping off the dropship knowing they can turn on full auto), or right after the bruiser decides to get off his bike with his.. punch gear or even in the case of fucking magic that undead or demons dont come hitting the ground running.  somethingsomething a high level ninja master bringing in trained recruits and beasts being taught/screamed at how to use Biteaga or Biteja.

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44 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

 

Oh and I thought of another one:

 

A robotics mastermind not having all upgrades available on summoning/off the assembly line.

 

this quote box isnt going away

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50 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

This is theorycrafting.  I dunno if you played masterminds even in ITF or anywhere near endgame, but they lack hardcore.  But because this game is easy enough to give a passing by "oh anything is viable if you think hard enough".  All other ATs come ready to go, i dont see why masterminds should not.  The almost equivalent of this is players getting toggles turned off randomly.

 

Pets do not benefit from mastermind's outside buffs (fort, forge, insps etc) - yes i am aware of earth/ambrosia in the beta notes

Pets have a low base damage, and low base damage cap.  Yes I am aware that there are 6 of them can balance it out, but does not.

Pets do not benefit from IOs.

 

Now the IO thing is huge, while the game is balanced around SOs, every player and their mothers alt account is riddled with IOs.  And not having pets sharing IO bonuses is what holds masterminds back from being on the same level as other ATs

 

With all that said, having auto-upgrades is a small step, but a step in the right direction.  Nothing of roleplay, or mechanical value is gained by not having pets auto upgraded on summon.  Even thematically a mastermind would have that shit ready to go as the mercs parachute down(or jumping off the dropship knowing they can turn on full auto), or right after the bruiser decides to get off his bike with his.. punch gear or even in the case of fucking magic that undead or demons dont come hitting the ground running.  somethingsomething a high level ninja master bringing in trained recruits and beasts being taught/screamed at how to use Biteaga or Biteja.

1) No its not theorycrafting. I carry ITFs on a number of masterminds, I have soloed the ITF on both my thugs/traps and my demons nature at +1x8.  My MMs do great in incarnate content as well. You're the one who doesn't know the AT if you think that all masterminds lack end game. There are a number of set combinations that can handle incarnate content fine before you've even slotted your alpha and which laugh at incarnate content as much as everything else once you've got them T4ed. 

 

2) You're wrong. I actually have a few macros designed to target my bruiser on my thugs/traps and feed him any reds, yellows, or oranges I have in my insp tray. The oranges just to clear space, but the reds and yellows help his damage a decent bit. You can drag and drop inspirations on pets. Pets do benefit from all buffs except recharge to some degree, though endurance is questionable. But accuracy, damage, defense, resistance, mez protection, all of those apply to pets same as they do to characters. Also, pets have the same resistance caps as tanks. My demons/elec has a Demon Prince with above 80% resist to I think all but psionic and negative while still having some defense to all through auras and maneuvers. 

 

3) Masterminds can be among the highest single and aoe damage characters in the game. My thugs/traps has a top pylon time of 55 seconds. That's over 600 DPS, or roughly the same DPS as a TW/Bio scrapper. You are the one theory crafting here dude. 

 

4) Nope. Making pets share IO bonuses would be broken. Its already possible to softcap alot of sets, if you could make resist focused MM builds hit the softcap as well through slotting MMs would be damn close to immortal in all content. You do not have a clue about the actual math behind this stuff and are making generalized statements with no actual basis in reality dude. 

 

5) You have already had it explained to you the purpose and benefit of having summons require rebuffing. A GM posted above as to why the decision was made. You can disagree with that decision if you want, but you are not disagreeing with that decision, you're pretending that decision does not exist. The entire purpose is to create tactical decisions with opportunity costs with supporting your team, supporting your pets, using your own damage powers, etc. You just have no appreciation for the depth of the class, and honestly you do not have any actual clue how the class works at high levels I suspect, or how to build a mastermind properly to actually be good in high level content. 

 

Here, a post I made on reddit about how to actually make a solid ass mastermind. Go learn. 

 

 

And this is is me getting MoITF badge solo at +1x1 on my demons/nature. I beat the entire TF in 90 minutes without dying on an MM. Still want to say MMs are not good in the ITF? The only reason I did not do x8 on this is cause it would have probably doubled the amount of time it took just to grind through the whole TF solo. 

Edited by TheSpiritFox
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