Super Reflexes Tweak

[xl8]

Although the entire set needs updating, how about dipping a toe into the water and adding one simple step first...

Can we get Dodge and Lucky combined into 1 power?

And/or add another power in the form of an accuracy buff. This would fit with the set's theme of having great reflexes--hitting before enemies can react. Either as an auto power or Aim style power (preferably aim ,given the newer secondaries have a plus damage component).

 

If we can go one step further, also add an end drain res to Quickness.

 

Ty

[Uun]

Disagree. Other than Elude being a complete waste, SR is fine as is. I could see reordering the powers for scrappers and stalkers so you don't have to wait until 35 to get Evasion. Don't really see +acc as necessary - it's pretty easy to get from set bonuses or the Kismet IO. Not sure what armor sets have +dmg other than Bio. End drain is only an issue if it's autohit, which is pretty rare.

[arcane]

15 minutes ago, Uun said:

Disagree. Other than Elude being a complete waste, SR is fine as is. I could see reordering the powers for scrappers and stalkers so you don't have to wait until 35 to get Evasion. Don't really see +acc as necessary - it's pretty easy to get from set bonuses or the Kismet IO. Not sure what armor sets have +dmg other than Bio. End drain is only an issue if it's autohit, which is pretty rare.

Well at least I can say this doesn’t constitute much power creep. Before I opened the thread I was sure it’d be something about heal, absorb, or regen, so I am pleasantly surprised by the suggestion’s reasonableness 🙂

[CaptainLupis]

I have SR scrappers, stalkers, a brute and at least 1 tank. Outside of fighting DE with quartz eminators and giant eyeballs of doom in the shard they are absolutely rock solid. Not really seeing why "the entire set needs updating" to be honest.

[SeraphimKensai]

SR is pretty awesome with the exception of Elude, so what about:

 

Elude - pbaoe aura +defense/ddr. Range 10. Your so agile that besides dodging attacks aimed at you, you are able to react quick enough to help your nearby teammates dodge attacks as well. 0.65/end per sec.

 

[MTeague]

27 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

SR is pretty awesome with the exception of Elude, so what about:

 

Elude - pbaoe aura +defense/ddr. Range 10. Your so agile that besides dodging attacks aimed at you, you are able to react quick enough to help your nearby teammates dodge attacks as well. 0.65/end per sec.

 

 

I would not want to see Elude (or any other armor T9) turned into a constant-on toggle. (Yes, I'm well aware of Granite, and always HATED granite because it invalidates most of the armor set once you get granite).

 

But. If they were doing a complete Revamp of all Armor-Set T9's?  I would like the idea of a Non-Perma-Able click T9 that helps boost defenses for the entire team.  Whether by granting the team +Defense, or +Resist, etc, with the idea being that yea, you either help them dodge, or you dive in front of them to soak some hits on their behalf, etc. It might need a max number of friendly targets (ie, Team only, not unteamed allies) to avoid becoming completely Crazy on Hami or Ship raids, etc.  But it would make for an interesting twist / reason to bring more melee's on certain content.

 

[EDIT:  and x4 style points if they could make an animation of the activating character briefly popping up in front the squishy for a second when they're attacked to show them intervening.]

Edited April 2, 2021 by MTeague

[CaptainLupis]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

 

I would not want to see Elude (or any other armor T9) turned into a constant-on toggle. (Yes, I'm well aware of Granite, and always HATED granite because it invalidates most of the armor set once you get granite).

 

But. If they were doing a complete Revamp of all Armor-Set T9's?  I would like the idea of a Non-Perma-Able click T9 that helps boost defenses for the entire team.  Whether by granting the team +Defense, or +Resist, etc, with the idea being that yea, you either help them dodge, or you dive in front of them to soak some hits on their behalf, etc. It might need a max number of friendly targets (ie, Team only, not unteamed allies) to avoid becoming completely Crazy on Hami or Ship raids, etc.  But it would make for an interesting twist / reason to bring more melee's on certain content.

 

[EDIT:  and x4 style points if they could make an animation of the activating character briefly popping up in front the squishy for a second when they're attacked to show them intervening.]

Not sure my werewolf stalker will be jumping in front of anyone else to help them out with their T9...

 

Admittedly I never take or use elude, so I wouldn't be adverse to it being changed for something else. Maybe lose the defence and add in a bunch of reistances to debuffs, end, tohit, recharge, something like that? I don't think you can add resistance debuff res without having actual resistance in the power, so that's probably out.

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

3 hours ago, xl8 said:

Although the entire set needs updating, how about dipping a toe into the water and adding one simple step first...

Can we get Dodge and Lucky combined into 1 power?

Meh, just lost a spot(s) to place among other things a LotG global to gain what?

3 hours ago, xl8 said:

And/or add another power in the form of an accuracy buff. This would fit with the set's theme of having great reflexes--hitting before enemies can react. Either as an auto power or Aim style power (preferably aim ,given the newer secondaries have a plus damage component).

I've heard of this power called Follow Up which can stack with itself.  In any case this sounds more like something built into the powers themselves (see Archery)

3 hours ago, xl8 said:

 

If we can go one step further, also add an end drain res to Quickness.

 

Ty

Outside of Elude which needs something to be useful I don't think SR is in any way shape or form in need of anything.  It's one of the stronger sets in my view.

[xl8]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Not sure what armor sets have +dmg other than Bio. End drain is only an issue if it's autohit, which is pretty rare.

Rad, Meltdown

[xl8]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

just lost a spot(s) to place among other things a LotG global to gain what?

A new useable power that isn't solely based on defense.

 

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

I've heard of this power called Follow Up which can stack with itself.  In any case this sounds more like something built into the powers themselves (see Archery)

Baked in doesn't make a significant enough change. Baked in is a euphemism for weak.

 

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Outside of Elude which needs something to be useful I don't think SR is in any way shape or form in need of anything. 

No issue with elude. It does what the set is focused on. My point is to add some diversity to bring it in line with other sets. Just look at regen which has a plus res/def component on top of heals and recov.

[Uun]

4 minutes ago, xl8 said:

No issue with elude. It does what the set is focused on.

You can soft cap defense to all without using Elude. It is completely superfluous.

 

19 minutes ago, xl8 said:

Just look at regen which has a plus res/def component on top of heals and recov.

 

Hardly. Other than MoG (which lasts 15 seconds), the only resistance or defense Regen has is 9.375% res (all) in Resilience. SR is orders of magnitude better. SR has defense debuff resistance and scaling damage resistance.

[CaptainLupis]

45 minutes ago, xl8 said:

A new useable power that isn't solely based on defense.

 

Baked in doesn't make a significant enough change. Baked in is a euphemism for weak.

 

No issue with elude. It does what the set is focused on. My point is to add some diversity to bring it in line with other sets. Just look at regen which has a plus res/def component on top of heals and recov.

You want to bring SR in line with regen? My apologies, I had assumed you were wanting to buff the set they way you had been talking...

[Aracknight]

I like the toggles, I like the passives.  They're easy to slot set bonuses (bonii?) into.  Good ones.

 

I might suggest making the scaling resistance enhancable.  It'd cost slots, but it'd increase survivability by making your Resistances higher with more hit points left.

 

I'm on the fence about Practiced Brawler.  I prefer to have attacks on auto, not defenses.  Yeah I can easily add it to my keybind for Target_enemy_near easy enough, and that works....but I just don't like it and would prefer the Practiced Brawler/Master Brawler option from the Sentinel version, which I'm pretty sure is a hard "No."  Maybe....if Practiced Brawler gave us some Resistance, we could all slot our Steadfast Protection, Gladiator's Armor, and Unbreakable Guard enhancements without having to take Tough.  God, I've never even activated Tough.)

 

I like Quickness.  I think that giving it run, jump, and fly speed to it isn't out of order, or allowing it to take universal travel sets.  (If I remember right, letting us slot Celerity Stealth made things like escort missions way difficult, hence my omission of Run/Jump/Fly speed sets).

 

Elude.  I love this power.  Do I need it?  In the age of soft capped builds, I do not need this power for defense (Exception:  lots of defense debuffs  The Winter Queen I think, springs to mind).  But when the fit hits the shan, I hit it, and I'm faster and I dont run out of endurance.  So maybe we need to redefine the concept.  I know that with Elude, I was able to get the gold medal on the ski course.  I know that with Elude, I can hit the speed cap and keep up with Super Speedsters.  And that's awesome, and there's a certain thematic symmetry: We have Passive defenses, and Toggle defenses, why not a passive speed power (Quickness) and straight up clone Infiltration as a toggle speed power?  It could be the opposite of Granite.  Their t-9 toggle makes them slow, ours could make us fast as hell. 

 

[MTeague]

49 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

Elude.  I love this power.  Do I need it?  In the age of soft capped builds, I do not need this power for defense (Exception:  lots of defense debuffs  The Winter Queen I think, springs to mind).  But when the fit hits the shan, I hit it, and I'm faster and I dont run out of endurance. 

That's what my Claws/SR has Elude.

 

I can go entire evenings without ever needing it once. 

But that one time a Sapper gets lucky and tags me when I'm standing in a crowd of Malta?

 

 

It will mean I'll have to keep an eye on the buff, and be ready to pop some inspirations and retoggle, or just pause for a bit and go refill my drink between fights if I think "yea, been long enough, probably should just wait it out". But that's no biggie.

 

[SwitchFade]

Hello. Isn't the weather nice? That's a very nice outfit you have. Do you like coffee? I sure do.

 

No vote.

 

I also enjoy a cookie, from time to time. And I love cheesecake.

 

Well, have a great day 🤪

[Aracknight]

Damn son, we just got filibustered.

[Doomguide2005]

8 hours ago, xl8 said:

A new useable power that isn't solely based on defense.

Such as?  I'm always open to suggestions.  This is just a hard sell for me.

8 hours ago, xl8 said:

 

Baked in doesn't make a significant enough change. Baked in is a euphemism for weak.

Perhaps but it comes down to what the value is for the power as to whether it is 'weak'.  Accuracy has no countering debuff value.  A mere 1.2 accuracy vs 1.0 is almost like a +1 level shift (39 becomes 46.8) for your final hit value.  

8 hours ago, xl8 said:

 

No issue with elude. It does what the set is focused on. My point is to add some diversity to bring it in line with other sets. Just look at regen which has a plus res/def component on top of heals and recov.

The idea Elude might provide a buff for teammates in some manner is an intriguing idea and would certainly make it a unusual t9 power in an armor set.

[Leogunner]

15 hours ago, arcane said:

Well at least I can say this doesn’t constitute much power creep. Before I opened the thread I was sure it’d be something about heal, absorb, or regen, so I am pleasantly surprised by the suggestion’s reasonableness 🙂

I'd agree.  If slight additions were made to armor sets, this suggestion is far more saner than some of the other ridiculousness put out.  Adding some limited niche effects to the sets might just give them flavor while letting the user overcome shortcomings rather than expecting the set to just have no shortcomings at all.

 

Off the top of my head, I think Inv and Bio both have +ToHit outside of, like, WP's rez.  Throwing a bit of accuracy into SR instead on top of its +rech and +movement wouldn't be bad.  For people complaining over Elude, maybe give it a unique additional power while Elude is active similar to Speed of Sound, a no-animation teleport on top of its movement speed to hammer home the +movement factor of the set (maybe make it a "nothing personnel, kid" TP behind your target instead for some combat opportunities).

 

Small little quirks like that are likely all armor set really need, like -ToHit resistance in Dark Armor and just straight up all debuff resistance spread into Regen.  None of that "give the set what it needs" or "pile more stats to cap" nonsense.

[Doomguide2005]

     Overall going to pretty much say no to any blanket addition of accuracy to SR's power set.  I don't believe any armor set has the ability to buff the users Accuracy (vs To Hit).  Powers which buff Accuracy are exceedingly rare.  Focused Accuracy comes to mind and I can't currently think of any others, the list is short for sure.  More typically accuracy is an inherent to individual offensive powers (nukes, holds) and frequently goes both ways (AoE immobilizes, AoE stuns)

[CaptainLupis]

11 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Overall going to pretty much say no to any blanket addition of accuracy to SR's power set.  I don't believe any armor set has the ability to buff the users Accuracy (vs To Hit).  Powers which buff Accuracy are exceedingly rare.  Focused Accuracy comes to mind and I can't currently think of any others, the list is short for sure.  More typically accuracy is an inherent to individual offensive powers (nukes, holds) and frequently goes both ways (AoE immobilizes, AoE stuns)

FA, despite the name, is also a +tohit rather than +acc (well the scrapper version is at least, I'm assuming they are all the same). The only power that springs to mind that has +acc is combat training for an Arachnos soldier, but I'm sure there must be more.

[Doomguide2005]

37 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

FA, despite the name, is also a +tohit rather than +acc (well the scrapper version is at least, I'm assuming they are all the same). The only power that springs to mind that has +acc is combat training for an Arachnos soldier, but I'm sure there must be more.

     Well no actually at least per CoD v2.0 it's both.  It provides a +5% To Hit buff and a +20% accuracy buff (1.20).  And only the To Hit portion may be enhanced.  Which is in line what I recall it being all along.  And yes I sort of vaguely recalled the Veat power as buffing accuracy.

 

Edit:  Partly, while you can playtest the heck out of it, having both available is 'risky' as having both available to a character is very potent in reaching 95% final hit chance.  Which undoubtedly plays a role in the size of the buffs provided by a power like FA.  Accuracy is a multiplier and does so to the Defense/To Hit portion of the Attack Mechanics equation.

     For example, you're fighting +4's your base hit from just having Kismet and FA unenhanced has jumped from 39 to 60 ... and that's assuming FA isn't enhanced, you have no other accuracy mods or to hit modifiers within the clamped Def/To Hit portion of the attack mechanics equation.

 

Edit 2:  Or put another way.  Slot Kismet, Take and enhance both Tactics and FA then give SR an accuracy buffing power of 1.2 or greater and you pretty much don't need any slotted acc enhancements in your powers.  You are already at 95% final hit chance vs +4's.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Doomguide2005
More Afterthoughts

[CaptainLupis]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Well no actually at least per CoD v2.0 it's both.  It provides a +5% To Hit buff and a +20% accuracy buff (1.20).  And only the To Hit portion may be enhanced.  Which is in line what I recall it being all along.  And yes I sort of vaguely recalled the Veat power as buffing accuracy.

 

Edit:  Partly, while you can playtest the heck out of it, having both available is 'risky' as having both available to a character is very potent in reaching 95% final hit chance.  Which undoubtedly plays a role in the size of the buffs provided by a power like FA.  Accuracy is a multiplier and does so to the Defense/To Hit portion of the Attack Mechanics equation.

     For example, you're fighting +4's your base hit from just having Kismet and FA unenhanced has jumped from 39 to 60 ... and that's assuming FA isn't enhanced, you have no other accuracy mods or to hit modifiers within the clamped Def/To Hit portion of the attack mechanics equation.

 

Edit 2:  Or put another way.  Slot Kismet, Take and enhance both Tactics and FA then give SR an accuracy buffing power of 1.2 or greater and you pretty much don't need any slotted acc enhancements in your powers.  You are already at 95% final hit chance vs +4's.

Bloody hell, so it does. How have I not noticed that before?

Edited April 3, 2021 by CaptainLupis

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Edit 2:  Or put another way.  Slot Kismet, Take and enhance both Tactics and FA then give SR an accuracy buffing power of 1.2 or greater and you pretty much don't need any slotted acc enhancements in your powers.  You are already at 95% final hit chance vs +4's.

Sounds like an enhancement opportunity similar to using +recovery powers/bonuses so you don't need END redux in your attacks.

 

Why not throw Invulnerability and Bio in the mix since they also have +ToHit buffs in their sets?  Compare that with a hypothetical acc bonus to SR.

[Doomguide2005]

34 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Sounds like an enhancement opportunity similar to using +recovery powers/bonuses so you don't need END redux in your attacks.

 

Why not throw Invulnerability and Bio in the mix since they also have +ToHit buffs in their sets?  Compare that with a hypothetical acc bonus to SR.

     Well yes it's definitely in the benefits column in a manner similar to countering end consumption via recovery and +end bonuses.  Thing is To hit bonuses and Accuracy bonuses are very different.  One is additive the other multiplicative.  On the other hand that is one of the things that proc monster builds need.  They can 'suffer' from both end usage and ability to land their attacks.  Having good global accuracy as well as endurance +end and +recovery via sets would be a real benefit no doubt.   

     It just makes me leery because of 1) how easily accuracy combined with rather plentiful to hit buffs can make it laughably easy to reach 95% and 2) there's currently no easy countering debuffs to accuracy buffs unlike vs player To Hit buffs.  I suppose thinking on it further the first already exists.  Global accuracy buffs via sets are plentiful though it usually requires several of a set to do so (so it's a slot demand).  Accuracy is a power choice demand right now.  Number 2 is more of a concern at least from a design and balance PoV I suspect.  Once you introduce them you've no way on the npc side of things to readily counter them you'd almost have to engage in player side nerfs and most folks see that as 'BAD'.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Leogunner]

9 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Well yes it's definitely in the benefits column in a manner similar to countering end consumption via recovery and +end bonuses.  Thing is To hit bonuses and Accuracy bonuses are very different.  One is additive the other multiplicative.  On the other hand that is one of the things that proc monster builds need.  They can 'suffer' from both end usage and ability to land their attacks.  Having good global accuracy as well as endurance +end and +recovery via sets would be a real benefit no doubt.   

     It just makes me leery because of 1) how easily accuracy combined with rather plentiful to hit buffs can make it laughably easy to reach 95% and 2) there's currently no easy countering debuffs to accuracy buffs unlike vs player To Hit buffs.  I suppose thinking on it further the first already exists.  Global accuracy buffs via sets are plentiful though it usually requires several of a set to do so (so it's a slot demand).  Accuracy is a power choice demand right now.  Number 2 is more of a concern at least from a design and balance PoV I suspect.  Once you introduce them you've no way on the npc side of things to readily counter them you'd almost have to engage in player side nerfs and most folks see that as 'BAD'.

I know what ToHit and Accuracy are and how they interact.  You can reach hitchance cap with ToHit alone, which was the point of my inquiry.  Under the same conditions, what is the base benefit of those other 2 sets' bonuses then translate that benefit into an accuracy bonus...you'll likely discover you'd need an absurd amount of bonus acc to compare, which is not what I'd recommend be added here.  If another set can comfortably acquire a decent hit chance, that should be the benchmark that a side-benefit could grant in this suggestion.

 

That a SR build with the +acc bonus would benefit procmonster builds is rather beside the point if, for example, another armor set offers a similar or possibly even greater benefit (since ToHit can have a far greater effect on the final hit chance than Acc).  

 

And there is practically no need to be so cautious when you're talking about Accuracy considering how easy it is to obtain in set bonuses anyway.  A utility effect is supposed to give you something useful and beneficial to your build.  Also, accuracy doesn't need a counter unless you're trying to balance defense as a mechanic of the game.  As far as I can tell, I don't think anyone is suggesting giving SR an accuracy bonus to circumvent accuracy slotting completely(you still need to get more from somewhere, just not as much).  If you can circumvent accuracy slotting by using SR's hypothetical +acc AND +acc IO set bonuses AND extra outside sources of +ToHit, that just sounds like a utility feature.