Allow Dominators and Controllers to get their pets earlier

[kelika2]

The idea was to get them at level 18 for all applicable Control sets.  Switch around powers to where the level 32 power is the AoE hold.  Sets like Darkness, Elec, illusion and Earth would have to switch with something else like a sleep but since most of these suggestion threads just kinda fade away im not ganna go that deep:

 

Before passing judgement, do not forget that dom/troll pets cannot be commanded.  And according to Power Info and character creation their damage scales down below level 27 leaving them not to be as OP as you might think.

 

1.) Low level stuff dies quick, without you.  Because of this AoE holds rarely get any use.  But someone with their Fly Trap out helping on a boss might not feel as useless

2.) Recharge time.  Being sub level 22/27 blocks and stops a lot of recharge bonuses many troll/doms have leaving AoE holds to be used maybe once a map, meanwhile someones Jack Frost will be there supporting away.

3.) Dominators are one of the games least played Archetype(according to last years statistics in General).  Their slightly higher damage over Defenders mixed with long control recharges leaves a bad taste in many peoples mouths, but if they got their Gemlins at level 18 it might be incentive for people to play the AT more or go for task forces below the perma hasten threshold.

4.) While Containment helps solo controllers out, it still feels like you are whiting away at things.  And in groups, pre-35 there is little way (count cross punch, vial and wall of force if you want)  to benefit from AoE Containment stuff.  Having Fire Imps at level 18 can and will push people to make more controllers for whatever reason.

 

"feel" "roleplay" "thematic" points

5.) While "Control" is in each sets name, this does not mean JUST locking down enemies.  An illusion controller getting Phantasm at 18 and Phantom Army at 6 still controls.. illusions.  Other elements can be fitted in to fit whatever point.

6.) The level 32 slot has always been kinda a last ditch power or something that makes you shine or doubles down on what you are.  Unstoppable making you mostly-Unstoppable, a blaster nuke cements them as the master of damage, a scrapper embodies their primary power set in the form of lightning or smashing a railroad sign into the ground.  A Controllers AoE Hold can reflect or mimic other archetypes level 32 ability.

 

[Zeraphia]

9 hours ago, kelika2 said:

1.) Low level stuff dies quick, without you.  Because of this AoE holds rarely get any use.  But someone with their Fly Trap out helping on a boss might not feel as useless

I disagree. Despite the long cooldown, if you're in a situation where your team is far away from you or is woefully unprepared for a specific piece of content (rularuu, malta, etc) where wipeouts tend to occur, I can definitely say it could be a saving grace. 

9 hours ago, kelika2 said:

3.) Dominators are one of the games least played Archetype(according to last years statistics in General).  Their slightly higher damage over Defenders mixed with long control recharges leaves a bad taste in many peoples mouths, but if they got their Gemlins at level 18 it might be incentive for people to play the AT more or go for task forces below the perma hasten threshold.

Least played does not always equal effectiveness. Dominators have a hard time in the earlier levels without Domination access which is general brought on by incarnates/IO's. That said, I LOVE Dominators. I wouldn't consider them "lacking" or "slightly higher damage over Defenders" I'd say they're actually solidly ahead as a unit by themselves (sans Storm Summoning and Kinetic/Fire) most Dominators solo will far exceed Defenders. Where Defenders beat Dominators is not their DPS, but their overall DPS contributions to a team and keeping people alive (dead teammates do no damage). 

 

While I don't disagree with your assessment of the applications pets may have at lower levels, I have to clarify some of the things being said. 

 

Now, your set's penultimate T9 can be very strong or very lackluster. Personally, I do not use Unstoppable as it is basically a death button after a period of time. A Blaster's nuke however I'd argue is one of the strongest examples of amazing T9's that you should in almost all cases take on virtually every Blaster you create (sans maybe AR). However, pets can be very skippable on Controllers/Dominators. The general trend that you identified is correct, that it is supposed to be the "ultimate" power of the set, above all others. Some see that as the pet that provides decent damage to you, some may see it as the Hold. 

 

Now, I think your argument has some flaws, and I think the justifications are a bit wishy-washy BUT I do actually like your suggestion for some of your more simple points, being that it is very helpful for lower level players (especially controllers) to have those pets out and pumping damage. AoE holds as T9's actually do make sense given it is a universal "ultimate" of the set, and given that a pet can be much more generally helpful to controllers/dominators at those levels than an AoE hold would be (not that it has no uses as it can indeed save a team or yourself, but the damage from the pets are much harder to pass up solo). Although, I believe it may be one of those unfortunate "ship has sailed" dilemmas where people are making builds around these powers, and while most probably would be inclined to go with your suggestion instead, you'd still upset a portion of the community who really prefers those controls over pets. 

 

Now that may sound like a "no vote" from me, but it is actually a yes vote for me to make it happen, and I would actually greatly enjoy this, I'm just pointing out some of the pros and cons.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Zeraphia

[Mezmera]

At level 18 I take the aoe hold and don't look back.  If you're not putting that into your bag of tricks right away you're doing yourself and your team a big disservice.  With domination running you can instantly lock down a group so if you get ambushed you're the one doing the ambushing.  Also, based on the longer recharge of these powers damage procs fire off real well on this too so you can always turn it into your own mini nuke, I have mine slotted with 5 of the purple set w/proc + the pvp proc.  

 

Most of the standard power availabilities for the control AT's I'd say are in the right spots, give or take a few tweaks here and there.  Some pets are pretty good, singularity, while others may need some work so there's where I'd be for adjusting the pet powers to make the pets universally good.  

[TheZag]

I might be able to agree if it was lvl 26 but at 18 you would be able to use it if exemplared all the way down to lvl 13.  That is posi 1 territory i think.  And lvl 32 is supposed to be where you get your 'best' power.  If its the AoE hold,  the next thing you will see is players saying it needs to do almost as much damage as a blasters nuke because as it is now its too weak just for a tradeoff of some hold duration.

[Greycat]

While I think there are some things that can be tweaked... I don't think this change would help, personally. I'd rather take and use the AOE hold early (open with it, stick the ST on any boss in teh group so he's held, too) than hope my pet's going to do what I want it to do.

[kelika2]

6 hours ago, TheZag said:

I might be able to agree if it was lvl 26

26 would kinda defeat the point of it.  level 21 when exemplaring, and for new players level 32 is right around the corner.  this still leaves virgil/posi/synapes/cavern/exemping for a hollows team a drudge to play through.

Edited April 6, 2021 by kelika2

[kelika2]

Also another argument I forgot to add, your secondary control (stuns, slicks, fears) tend to get used more at all levels, from a sheer recharge time stand point.

[Yomo Kimyata]

What’s the problem we are trying to solve here?

 

My gut says that controllers are late bloomers and your T9 is your signature power.  Are you asking also to nerf the pets to justify getting them so much earlier?  Or do you just want full power earlier?  I’m open to hearing new ideas!

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Are you asking also to nerf the pets to justify getting them so much earlier?

No.