Knockdown Mental Experiment

[oedipus_tex]

I do not consider Force Field > Force Bolt a good power. Let's start there. The animation time spent to knockback one enemy seems out of proportion to other, better powers.

 

This raises a mental experiment question. Let's say instead of knocking the target back just once (or knockdown if you converted with a KB to KD), after having been hit the target is "Dizzied" and continually trips and falls over a few more times after the initial hit. 

 

Here's where the mental experiment comes in. At what ratio of additional knockdowns does Force Bolt become an attractive power? 

 

What I'm really asking is what the ratio of animation time to expected mitigation is. Where is the threshold for you?

[TemporalVileTerror]

The Golden Ratio!

 

First Hit gives 100% Mag 9.00 (Level 1) to 18.69 (Level 50, Defender Values) Knockback (exactly as-is).

After 1.6 Seconds, a 61.8% Chance of Mag 5.56 to 11.55 Knockback.

After 2.62 Seconds, a 38.2% Chance of Mag 3.43 to 7.13 Knockback.

After 4.24 Seconds, a 23.6% Chance of Mag 2.12 to 4.41 Knockback.

[EmmySky]

Nerf math.

[MTeague]

47 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

Nerf math.

Math is super important!  Without math Google Maps couldn't tell me where to go, and I couldn't order dinner online!

We neeeed math!

[Twisted Toon]

Personally, I'm happy with Force Bolt the way it is.

 

So, I guess my answer would be, zero additional knockdowns?

[Doomguide2005]

Could make for some weird Hellion Golf ...

"Wow hole in 5 with one shot, how did you say to score that again?"

 

Or maybe it is more like skipping stones on the lake in Perez Park

 

"Oh! Had a 5 hopper until it hit that hydra"

Edited April 12, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Leogunner]

7 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I do not consider Force Field > Force Bolt a good power. Let's start there. The animation time spent to knockback one enemy seems out of proportion to other, better powers.

 

This raises a mental experiment question. Let's say instead of knocking the target back just once (or knockdown if you converted with a KB to KD), after having been hit the target is "Dizzied" and continually trips and falls over a few more times after the initial hit. 

 

Here's where the mental experiment comes in. At what ratio of additional knockdowns does Force Bolt become an attractive power? 

 

What I'm really asking is what the ratio of animation time to expected mitigation is. Where is the threshold for you?

A different mental experiment question:  If Force Bolt was a hold instead of a KB, how much more worthwhile would it be to use it on a Underling vs a Lt?  How about a Minion vs a Boss?

 

Now consider that hold function like other ST holds that require stacking magnitude to take effect...

[DougGraves]

Knockback/kd works on many bosses that hold does not work on.  I like Jolting Chain for the same reason - it gives you some control on bosses.

 

If FB took 1 second to cast and did one knockdown, it would probably be worth it on low level characters against bosses (fighting Trolls in the Hollows).  On a FF defender it would be better because they lack other controls.  On a FF controller it would not be worth it in general.

 

If you want to make Force Bolt better, make it a knockdown with a mag 3 stun for 6 seconds.  You get some control for bosses and decent control for minions and lts.

[Twisted Toon]

5 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Knockback/kd works on many bosses that hold does not work on.  I like Jolting Chain for the same reason - it gives you some control on bosses.

 

If FB took 1 second to cast and did one knockdown, it would probably be worth it on low level characters against bosses (fighting Trolls in the Hollows).  On a FF defender it would be better because they lack other controls.  On a FF controller it would not be worth it in general.

 

If you want to make Force Bolt better, make it a knockdown with a mag 3 stun for 6 seconds.  You get some control for bosses and decent control for minions and lts.

My Illusion/FF Controller use FB, Air Superiority, and Repulsion Field to "lock down" multiple bosses, while the PA and Phantasm took care of distracting the rest of the mob aggro'd on an 8 man team during a Revenant arc run on live.

I found FB worth it for that character.

But then, that controller was also an in-your-face controller that could tank if the team was lacking a tank. A Conscranker, if you will.

 

Yea, I dealt with a lot of scrapper-lock with him.

[Bionic_Flea]

Make KB distance give bonus damage equal to equivalent fall damage.  Force Bolt slotted for knockback would then be a great attack.