Issue 27 p2 and Full Auto

[Mack008]

The patch notes indicate that Full Auto on the Merc Commando had it's activation time reduced.  Was this applied applied to the Soldier's Assault Rifle Auto Fire?

 

Quote

Full Auto (All Versions, including Henchmen)

• Cast Time reduced from 4s (or 6s) to 2.5s (Mercenary Commando actually took a whopping 6s before!)

 

[Arbegla]

Short answer is Yes.

[Mack008]

Thank you.

 

Out of curiosity, how did you confirm it?

[Arbegla]

7 minutes ago, Mack008 said:

Thank you.

 

Out of curiosity, how did you confirm it?

 

the Beta Server Threads mostly, but you can also check by looking at the mercs powers themselves in game.

[Mack008]

OK, feeling dumb... how do I check a henchmen's powers in the game?

[Arbegla]

I can't get in game right now (currently at work) but I think you can right click the upgrade and one of the options there will show you what powers it grants to your pets. That should tell you the animation time and such.

[Mack008]

Ahh!  Thank you.  I never realized you could click on that text to see the henchman's attack details.

 

(And yes, Soldier's Assault Rifle Auto Fire is now down to 2.5 seconds.)

[Tacheyon]

Yep, which is why I am trying out a Mercs/Nature build that I started yesterday.  I want to see how the DPS and/or chains have been modified with this simple chain.  Obviously it's not got to be world chaining but there should be a bit of an increase.

[Mack008]

Yea, this changes one attack on Soldiers and one on the Commando, so I'm not expecting to see much difference.  My Merc/Elec MM is level 35, and I'll toy around with him tonight.

[JayboH]

Did they change the recharge?  If not, I wouldn't expect much of an increase at all.

[SmalltalkJava]

The full auto change did make a difference.  And.., Mercs still need some help 🙂    But putting a shield breaker, and a lady grey proc in each pet is pretty good.  You can also put the Achillies Heal -Res proc in one of the pets.  I don't know mathematically which one of the pets the Achilles Heel should go into in order to squeeze out most dps.  @BGSacho may know.  He did some research on Mercs.

 

• Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
• Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage
• Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
   

 

 

 

[StrikerFox]

Merc damage seems pretty much the same with the change to Full Auto. Just did a run on Beta, only Merc pets. Got the same dps as 1.5 years ago while testing. Both 211 secs, 310 dps. 

 

New:

 

 

Old:

 

 

 

[SmalltalkJava]

24 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

Both 211 secs, 310 dps. 

Well.  there we go.   I guess it would make sense in the overall scheme of things.  Taking into account down time between them using attacks, and cycling through attacks.

[JayboH]

That's why I said that.  The change affects Assault Rifle mostly.  Mathematically unless they change the recharge it shouldn't help Mercs very much at all.

[Senbonbanana]

I'm honestly shocked Mercs DPS didn't go up even a single point.  I expected it to go up a little bit, but no change is surprising.

 

Mercs need love, even if it just drags them out of the dumpster.  They don't have to be top tier, but they should at least be a competitive choice in the mid-tier.

 

Is there a thread somewhere on suggestions to improve Mercs?  The search isn't working this morning and I'm too lazy to troubleshoot right now -.-

[StrikerFox]

22 hours ago, Senbonbanana said:

I'm honestly shocked Mercs DPS didn't go up even a single point.  I expected it to go up a little bit, but no change is surprising.

 

It was just a single run, rng likely plays a big part in it. The run with the Full Auto change actually did worse. The old run posted, only one pet was in Leadership range so 5 of 6 didn't get the buffs.

[JayboH]

I mean, the idea is that Full Auto finishes sooner and does better burst, but then I assume they just stand around as long as it takes for their next attack because without altering recharge it probably does nothing for them

[Arbegla]

1 hour ago, JayboH said:

I mean, the idea is that Full Auto finishes sooner and does better burst, but then I assume they just stand around as long as it takes for their next attack because without altering recharge it probably does nothing for them

 

I don't have access to City of Data, but don't they have 2-3 other attacks as well? While recharge could be an issue, they should still have a decent attack chain once you get all the upgrades.

[JayboH]

6 hours ago, Arbegla said:

 

I don't have access to City of Data, but don't they have 2-3 other attacks as well? While recharge could be an issue, they should still have a decent attack chain once you get all the upgrades.

The point is that they didn't alter recharge after altering the new speedier/burstier Full Auto, which could mean they just stand around and basically makes their DPS unchanged, which StrikerFox confirmed

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, JayboH said:

The point is that they didn't alter recharge after altering the new speedier/burstier Full Auto, which could mean they just stand around and basically makes their DPS unchanged, which StrikerFox confirmed

 

Lol! What? I didn't confirm that at all. I was trying to confirm if the change to Full Auto would make a significant impact on Merc dps. Anyone who did a lot of testing with proc-less, old Mercs and saved the data, would need to retest with the update to know for sure. The only data I have are proc heavy pets.

My Merc dps is very rng dependent with 2-3 damage procs slotted on each pet. I have screenshots of each proc doing anywhere between 6-25% of a pet's total damage. I also have screenshots of the Medic doing more damage than Soldiers and Spec-Ops thanks to proc rng. The same pylon time is pure coincidence and doesn't mean pets stand around doing nothing due to quicker cast times. 
 

7 hours ago, Arbegla said:

I don't have access to City of Data, but don't they have 2-3 other attacks as well? While recharge could be an issue, they should still have a decent attack chain once you get all the upgrades.

 

I did check the animation/combat log for a single soldier and he does use another attack quickly after his AR Auto Fire ends. Soldiers have a couple attacks that recharge fast. ASMG Burst (3s) and AR Burst (4s) so they should have an attack, ready to go, at all times.

[JayboH]

Ah, see that's correct then:  if Burst is 3 sec and AR Burst is 4 sec, I thought Full Auto was 4 sec and is now 2.5 sec for activation, meaning they could possibly be nonstop back to back, but then you add activation time to the cd for Burst and AR Burst...  hmm...  any increase should be incredibly small from that patch.  Recharge time on Commando's Full Auto is a whopping 60 seconds.

[SmalltalkJava]

1 hour ago, StrikerFox said:

My Merc dps is very rng dependent with 2-3 damage procs slotted on each pet.

So for mercs do you run   Lady Gray and Shield Breaker in all pets and then Achilles Heel in the T1 Soldiers?  That is how i run mine.

Edited June 12, 2021 by SmalltalkJava

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, SmalltalkJava said:

So for mercs do you run   Lady Gray and Shield Breaker in all pets and then Achilles Heel in the T1 Soldiers?  That is how i run mine.

 

Soldiers: Shield Breaker, Lady Grey, Overwhelming and Soulbound.
Spec Ops: Achilles', Shield Breaker and Lady Grey
Commando: Explosive Strike, Shield Breaker and Lady Grey 

 

I would like Achilles' in Soldiers but wanted Overwhelming and Soulbound slotted on them too. When I tested 1.5 years ago, Explosive Strike performed a lot better than the def debuff procs on Commando.

 

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Edited June 12, 2021 by StrikerFox

[Mack008]

StrikerFox, so you don't bother with any of the +Resistance or +Defense IOs for your henchmen?

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, Mack008 said:

StrikerFox, so you don't bother with any of the +Resistance or +Defense IOs for your henchmen?

 

I do but the only way to achieve the slotting was pairing Mercs with Storm. Tornado can slot pet IOs. I did end up dropping the def debuff procs in Commando to give Tornado better damage, recharge and end redux.

 

When I tested 1.5 years ago, the def debuff procs added about +5% dps each to Commando; Explosive Strike proc alone added about +12% dps.

 

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