Enemy Villain Tier List

[DrunkFlux]

So I was thinking  for some time and decided i'd write this while in an AE farm, a enemy villain tier list.

 

Now, this is based on the following  criteria:

How dangerious are they to player groups through the time they can be encountered?

How many ways can they disable a player?

What level ranges are they encountered? 

How available are quality buffs/debuffs/cc and IO's/incarnate powers?

 

Much of this is  opinion based, and it largely looks at how the  enemy groups gimicks and tricks(or lack thereof) effect player gameplay.

 

So to start, Tier F.

 

Tier  F

 

The problem these  villain groups have  is a lack of tools to counter players and ultimately are the equivilent of the dumb guy with a club who never  hits  anything.  These are the least threatening in the game and only destroy players who are low  in defense and when they are scaled up significantly.  To make  matters worst, Tier  F enemies are  often encountered at HIGHER levels, and  still fight like they are in the level 1-10 range.  This compounds the problems they have.  In short, they fight like low level mobs and are at higher levels.

 

Because they are fought at higher  levels and have no special abilities, they are total pushovers.

 

Council/5th Column

Council suffer one major problem as the player levels up;  they get no form of support abilities or meaningful CC.   This means they can only disable a player with attacks, and while they have 'some' CC it's so rare that it's hardly ever noticed.  Nothing ever changes for the group, and this quickly results  in them getting curb stomped over and over by player groups.   The most  annoying are werewolves mostly because they spend  90% of there time running away like Sir Robin.  These guys just SUCK, and are number#1 villain group players love to bash for it :).

 

Knives of Vengeance

They are a major downgrade from the Knives of artemis(who are a MUCH higher tier).  They are encountered when you have incarnate powers(by design), and have the same problem council have, no CC of any meaningful form.  They don't even have the caltrops that  the knives of artemis are  known for, nore the stacking stun grenades.  Maybe i am wrong but i've never seen them use  any CC in any form when I fight them.  They make me think of diablo 2 corrupt rogues; forgetting 'everything' that made them dangerous and downgrading to mindless brute force.

 

 

Tier  D

These groups tend to be encountered mostly at lower levels when players have limited tools to deal with mobs, but sometimes have few tricks of there own.  These will not cause much difficulty for a team that has a reasonable understanding of the game, and won't be much threat.

 

Hellions

What?  They aren't in Tier  F?  What  gives?  As  mentioned  level is a major factor, and hellions, while very easy still, are exclusively encountered at lower levels when players have limited powers available to them.  They also do limited damage, the only reason players may die to them is when players  get especially reckless.

 

Trolls

Similarly to Hellions, trolls rank slightly low.  While they are more dangerous than hellions, they are still easily dealt with by using reasonable buffs.   They are pretty much just bigger hellions.

 

Freakshow

Freakshow are mostly a damage focused group that, prior to some changes, were  in the Tier F category; nothing but  damage and a gimmick to self res that posed little danger to players.  But they can CC better now and sap endurance, it however mostly serves to slow teams down if  they have endurnace problems which in the missions they are often encountered, many teams have.

 

Clockwork

 

They do scale to higher levels slightly dangerous manner with -recharge, but the most prominent levels they are encountered are at very low levels, the main problem they pose is largely draining endurance.  The biggest threat perhaps is a player getting bored or running out of time in the Synapse TF rather than any frustration from difficulty.

 

Warriors

Mostly a brute force faction, though they can stun and have swords to debuff defenses, but not to threatening.  They are almost never encountered at higher levels likewise.

 

The Lost

They have  some CC and can prove to be somewhat  hazardous, but are otherwise a lower level group.  They do gain an upgrade at level 20-29 and then 'another' upgrade at 30+, but I have to make a different enemy group for that for anyone  who understands the games lore.

 

Redcaps

A brute force faction with an unusual ability to get  bigger, and bigger, and bigger.  But so long as they are destroyed  by reasonable DPS, they rarely use that ability.   They are also pretty much exclusively encountered in Croatoa.

 

Praetorian Clockwork

They are effectively cleaning robots that can resurrect or heal one another, but otherwise a raw damage attack group.

 

Tier C

 

Groups here  tend to  have a balance  of tricks across the time they are encountered, or they get easier as players get to higher levels and somehow lose the tricks they are  known for.  These groups can pose a threat because of this for a mid level team.

 

Circle  of thorns

Circle of thorns are hard to place.  On one hand, if they kept the nasty defense debuffing CC of the earlier levels and massive -tohit, including earthquake which can absolutely ruin your day, they'd be in Tier S.   But they lose all of that as the game progresses, largely turning into a fire and  brimstone and seeming to lose most of there tricks, which would throw them into tier F.  This averages out, and kicks them all the way down to tier C.

 

Cimerorans

Cimeroans are dangerous mostly to players who rely on defense but have minimal defense resistance.  They can also punish a player who has only moderate accuracy with defense buffs.  Beyond that however, they are largely a brute force faction that can pierce defenses every so often.  The ITF also has very frequently placed elite bosses that take some time to deal with, this lets them barely qualify as Tier C.

 

Outcasts

Outcasts can CC somewhat for there low  level range  and sport some potentially dangerous boss rank enemies, including  even one who can use fire  imps!  Or freeze players with ice blocks.   They also mix some powers from trolls.

 

Skyraiders

They have an annoying +defense drone that they spawn and teleporting enemies, but are otherwise somewhat average with attacks and abilities similar to Council.  They are not down to Tier D largely because the level range they are for the most part at is somewhat fair for them, the  player  isn't likely to be overpowered.  They are especially easy for Market Crash TF, but other then that I cannot place them very high otherwise.

 

 

Tier  B:

These groups can potentially cause a lot of deaths  in a team, and have a multitude of tricks up there sleeves.  These groups can cause a lot of deaths if a player ignores those abilities.   Many of these are also only encountered at higher levels.  OR they are enemies with tricks or unusually high damage at  lower level ranges.   In fact, these groups are very close to some of the more balanced enemy groups, OR they are almost unfairly difficult for the level range they are encountered or for some archtypes, almost.

 

Praetorian Police

These guys pack a serious WHOLLOP for the level they are encountered, and are surprisingly accurate also.  Praetorians have a very rough start, and at the same time teams may not be readily available.

 

Ghouls

High damage, often place bombs and also hide and ambush the player in carefully positioned locations in the maps they are placed.  At the same time, they almost always spawn an ambush every, single, time you detonate one of there placed explosives from a distance.  Lastly, on death they heal nearby ghouls, forcing the player to kill them one at a time or make absolutely sure they all die at the same time.

 

Imperial Defense Force

Sometimes, these  guys can be painful with some degree of buffs and also support from the seers and Victorias who are able to slice a player very quickly.

 

The Cabal

These girls can be very nasty, and very very difficult to fight for melee.  The lieutenants and  bosses love  to spam hurricane and that  alone  puts  them in Tier  B.  They are still easily defeated with range, but there tendency to shut melee players down can be frustrating.   If only there was another group who abused even more storm powers.....

 

The Destroyers

A brutal high damage group for the tier  they are encountered with a tendency to spawn in very, very high numbers even solo.  This group can give  a player a lot of trouble.

 

Tier A

 

Well now we  have some real threats to worry about here.  These  groups are fairly deadly, and can cause a lot of deaths.  Note  some of these groups have a rep as being more dangerous than they really are, or less so, but once you consider there gimmicks and secondary debuff effects, these can be troublesome in some missions and task forces.  A team that understands the game reasonably well will be able to defeat these with careful inspiration use and active defense tactics.

 

Vahzilok

Some might think i'm being  generous with the Vahzilok, but they have  very nasty   -recharge debuffs that players rarely have a good answer for at very low  levels.  They can completely shut your powers off just by attacking! as if that is not enough, there bosses have very nasty -defense or -tohit debuffs in there attacks.  And any veteran knows to attack the cadavers for a reason, there  is nothing worst than the entire team being nuked into oblivion in a single explosion.  And at such low levels to.

 

Malta Operatives

Malta would be in Tier S if not for the fact that every ability they have does have it's counters, and they are only encountered at 40-50 level range.  Sappers are also very fragile and quickly identified and  killed.  The other  major threat are gunslingers, who can teleport and CC squishier players.  Teams fighting  council that then decide to fight Malta might be in for a rude awakening for that.  This  group again would be Tier S if not for the fact that they are encountered late, and can be countered.  There mechanical lieutenants can merge into bosses, but that makes minimal difference.

 

The Resistance

Oh god these guys are nasty.  Forget  the IDF, these  guys can be brutal.  They just stack the to-hit buffs like no tomorrow, and do a lot of damage.  They are one of the few brute force groups that qualify higher than the lower tiers, simply because they can get around player defenses.  They are  also fought  at low levels, and  sometimes(or even often) solo where they can be no better once your level 10 and  up.

 

The Syndicate

These are the praetorian Tsoo with...less variety of nasty tricks that can cripple a player.  It's primarily relegated to bosses.  They do however also have lots of -defense debuffs and are primarily encountered at lower levels.

 

Warworks

In the B.A.F  itrial, they can infinitely stack +tohit buffs and achieve a critical mass.  But even not accounting for that, they have deadly attacks and the Victoria, which can get a ranged critical strike.  Higher accuracy overall puts them a tier higher than they truely deserve.

 

Arachnos

Arachnos possess blinds, some CC, and nastier -defense that can consistently hit through defense unless you specifically have psionic defense.  This group starts slightly easy, but even earlier on the blind abilities can leave you especially vulnerable.  They're diversity of abilities places them in a very strong A position and they certainly earn it, but there are stronger groups with hard to stop abilities.

 

Paragon Police

What?  How in the world is THIS group in tier A?  When considering this group, I had to think about the sheer insanity of variety these jerks have,  and how they certainly scale up very well.  The big danger is simply they love bringing out very hard to counter debuffs at the mid level range, with powers similar to glue arrow and acid arrow.  They don't get  much easier  either in later levels when peacebringers show up, and the mass of defense debuffs at range show up.  Many veterans are not unfamiliar with the amount of time they spent in jail during a mayhem mission.

 

Tier S

 

Oh god where do I begin with these groups?  They often have abilities that are difficult or even impossible to truely counter without killing them before they use them.   Some  stack CC like no tomorow like Malta operatives in Tier  A, or unleash massive varieties of abilities.  These groups are rarely fought, but when they are, they can be brutal in the right circumstances, and can be consistently dangerous.   I also tried to order them from least to most threatening Tier S.

 

Knives  of  Artemis

Oh god how these gals got downgraded when they got  "upgraded" to the knives of vengeance, what happened?   The biggest reason the KoV qualify to tier S is the almost uncounterable caltrops ability, which they all possess and can stack endlessly.  This will whittle away your health, and if thats not enough, there swords have nasty -defense debuffs.  Top it off with stun stacking that the bosses and lieutenents use that can last over 40 seconds, and we have a low tier S.  The  only saving  grace  is  they cannot use the caltrops at long  range, and the debuff ends if you escape.  Likewise, they are also somewhat fragile.

 

Carnival of Shadows

Carnival of shadows have the annoying ability to sap your endurance consistently on dying, while also having some nasty CC.  The most frustrating thing however is the combined ability for some bosses to fade out of existence while still attacking you.  Those same bosses can summon allies and it does not help that there  lieutenant equivilants can also fade in and out constantly.  They also have AoE stuns and are more than happy to use them.  They are not the most dangerous tier S group, but still earn a spot.

 

Tsoo

Tsoo are encountered at  a wide, wide variety of level ranges and possess probably one of the widest variety of nasty tricks, as well as a consistent tendency to have at least some CC as well as a teleporting enemy who uses hurricane.  You simply cannot predict what they will have, and that can make them especially dangerous.   Special note that there minions ALSO have special abilities including siphon speed and can ruin your cooldown rates, and simultaniously stack.  And unlike werewolves, they don't like to run away and are more than happy to attempt to pound your now  powerless face in.

 

Tier  S+

 

These groups are either equipped with extremely nasty, almost unfair combinations of abilities, or are downright cheaters.  As in seriously, they practically cheat.   Immunities to CC with no counter, to hit ratings that are so artificially high all defense and tohit debuffs just as well not exist, most of these groups are victims of very bad play testing.  Only one group here is remotely balanced, and  probably deserves to be in Tier S+ inspite not relying on effectively major oversights.

 

Ralaruu

Oh my god these guys are cheaters.   The eyeballs have  a flat 200 to hit, meaning defense builds are going to need a team whether they like it or not, and to-hit debuffs have no effect on them.  Boss watchers possess 300 base to hit!   They also inflict terrifying damage.   There brute minions can buff allies when weakened, or  heal if they are lieutenants(bosses have defense debuffing attacks).   Wisps have CC, and natterlings can merge together, and the lieutenant natterlings can also cc you.  Lastly, some bosses can summon allies.  This combination(especially the  200 BASE to hit for the watchers) places them in Tier S+.  At least only 'some' enemies have the absurd tohit.

 

Banished Pantheon

Make no mistake, this  group definently qualifies as a brutal group even at high levels.  While at lower levels they may not be to dangerous they are also not encountered often at such levels.  But the high level banished pantheon have some of the nastiest -defense abilities and -tohit in the game.  There storm users can summon freezing rain, which is one of THE single deadliest AoE CC in the game to face, the damage may be low, but once your hit, the -defense and -resistance will last long after the power has ended or you escaped.  Those same storm summoners also have hurricane, so good luck hitting them reliably with melee.

 

Combine powerful psionic attacks of other bosses and high damage, and you have a group that can easily be seen as a top contender.  I also find  these far more entertaining to engage, since they are  hard for good reasons imo.  They are also pretty much designed to pose a challenge for incarnates.

 

Nemesis

Nemesis are in an odd place.  They are  otherwise of a very low threat when first engaged,  with only possibly a strong defense stat from force fields, and also resist some  degree of crowd control, outright ignoring a few forms unfairly.  What places them in Tier S however is when  you start defeating there lieutenants to early in a fight.  These  jerks  will absolutely wreck you  with a mass of stacked to-hit/damage/defense buffs in the form of a unique form of vengeance that can extend a very, very far distance. 

 

This group forces you to slow down or get wiped from insanely overbuffed enemies.  If not for this one ability they would be in Tier C or B, but this places them far into Tier S territory.  And I tie them with Banished Pantheon for the level of, to be frank, fake difficulty they bring.  The other fact that some CC has zero effect on them also doesn't help.  My feelings about them are, they are tedious to fight, force you to slow way down and artificially inflaes the duration missions take.

 

 

Those are the  groups I can think of for the moment, if  I have time I'll try to think of where to place  the other villain groups.   Understand  this is mostly an opinion piece.   I am not  sure  where to place Talons of Vengeance to be honest, even though they are very prominent in dark astoria, just as an example.

Edited April 26, 2021 by LaughingAlex

[Glacier Peak]

This was a good read!

[Apparition]

You left out Rogue Vanguard and The Awakened.  Both are clearly Tier S+.  Maybe even S++.  Otherwise, good job!

[DrunkFlux]

30 minutes ago, Apparition said:

You left out Rogue Vanguard and The Awakened.  Both are clearly Tier S+.  Maybe even S++.  Otherwise, good job!

 

I plan to check them out, though I'm not gonna make  an S++.  S+ is what I'm reserving for if a villain group is  especially imbalanced or unfair :P, or simply very, very powerful but still doable, just more punishing of mistakes than the other mobs.  I also passed skulls by mistake.  I'll get to them when I get time, I rather not try reviewing them without looking over there newer enemy(think they have one I do not remember, it's been a while  since i played those missions in fact think I only messed with that arch once).

[klulka1]

Where would you place longbow and why would it be either s or s+?

[ZorkNemesis]

I find it interesting that you put the Hellions on the list, but not the Skulls?  They got a rework in i24 and a bunch of them are actually somewhat threatening at the level they're fought.  Bosses inflict -ToHit (and you're forced to fight a few during Shauna Stockwell's arc) and i'm sure everyone's got a story about Veles and his cheap summoning of his Grave Knight after he's beaten.  Also Chernebolg is basically a reskinned Keres from the Talons.

 

One thing you should mention about Resistance, the ones you fight in Maria Jenkin's story arcs are also protected from control effects, requiring multiple applications to stop them.  So you can't lock them down before they chew up your armor with their assault rifles.

 

Some other groups to consider:

- UPA (only encountered in Provost Marchand/The Major's arcs), the remnants of the Resistance, as well as IDF/DUST defectors.  Some of their unique mobs are nasty, but you also have to deal with Heavy Troopers/Rangers and DUST Rangers alongside Resistance dudes.  Not fun.

- First Ward.  Most things in First Ward are just awful to fight.  DUST are a step up from Praetorian Police, Apparitions can Fear and cut your damage, Awakened are pure evil Psi mobs (they get worse in Mr. G's arc in Marital).  Carnival are ok though.  Also pre-incarnate Talons of Vengance, which aren't so bad here.

- Night Ward.  The Dredges, good lord I hate them.  They hit you with -ToHit, they through Haunts and Shadow Beasts at you, and they're not fun.  Also the Black Knights, with minions that spam taunt preventing you from targeting anything meaningful.  Animus Arcana and Spirit Stalkers are ok, Spirit Stalkers have fears though, and Animus Arcana are weird; one of them tends to use Absorb Pain on you.

- Vanguard.  Full stop.  They have ridiculously high perception and aggro range, strong resistances to most damage including psi, they will rip your defense and resistance to shreds and the bosses can impart a massive -50 Max End debuff on you that persists for 10 minutes and even death won't fix it, only otherwise removed by a power that costs 50 Vanguard Merits (for 5 uses).  If you do Mr. G's story arc before level 35 you have no way to remove the debuff and you are forced to let it run out.  They are hands down one of the worst mobs in the game to fight, with the only saving grace against them being the Claws Rangers can be immobilized beyond their short ranged attacks (they use Focus and Shockwave on you, which are very short ranged).  Also, thankfully, you only ever fight them in Gaussian's and Mr. G's arcs, as well as the one Elite Boss that's part of Raminel's arc.

- Longbow.  They've never been fun.  A number of their bosses are mean, some of them can self rez, Nullifiers will eat your resistance in large groups (multiple sonic grenades), they now have a Heal/Bubbler thanks to adding Clockwork Menders, and so many of them have assault rifles you may as well just not have any defense based armor going up against them.

- The Family.  Not a terrible group, but they've been expanded to be at pretty much every level.  They're still mostly conventional weapons, but at higher levels you get the bosses with Gravity powers.  In the rare cases you fight them beyond level 40 they're now armed with Beam Rifles and Resistance weapons, and the bosses can use Titan Weapons and Time Manipulation heals (you'll only really see this if you do Mr. G's arc past 40).

- Crey.  Can be nasty but are mostly just slow kills.  Crey Tanks, Juggernauts and Protectors have very high resistances to all but Psi, and are also fast.  Paragon Protectors are flat out annoying, especially the ones using Moment of Glory and Elude.  At level 48 and up, every single mob is a Crey Tank or Paragon Protector, making them a huge slog to fight.

- Rikti.  More annoying than anything but can still be dangerous.  Most of their attacks stun, armored Rikti have high resistance to most damage, many of them deal Psi damage.  Drones have high accuracy and high defense to all but ranged AoEs and tend to spawn in large groups.  Guardians pretty much ensure every Rikti you fight has Accelerate Metabolism up.  At least they give more experience then most mobs.

- Mooks.  They're kind of a joke.  A low level Family knockoff you'll only really find in Port Oakes.  They do most everything the Family already do, though their lieutenants love to run away before shooting at you with their sniper rifles.

- Snakes.  Fairly lame.  They do toxic damage which might be tricky to resist early.  The higher ups can also self-heal, use Psi controls, and cut you down with broadswords.  Not a terrible threat, but can be a nuisance early game.

- Goldbrickers.  Another joke that you'll only find in Cap.  They all have Sonic Rifles to eat your resistances but otherwise not terribly challenging.  They also all have jetpacks and love to fly away so bring a gun.

[Heraclea]

A lot depends on bringing the right defense set for the content.  I have an electric armor brute who has done all of the Carnie and Malta arcs, because she can laugh at endurance drains.  My radiation armor characters are almost as strong in that department.  I have a level 50 of every armor set except Stone and Super Reflexes, so I have some ability to tailor what I bring to the content.  I wrote a very old guide that possibly could be updated about pairing armor sets to the content that may still have some usefulness.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Which_tanker_should_I_bring_to_the_task_force%3F

 

[DrunkFlux]

7 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

I find it interesting that you put the Hellions on the list, but not the Skulls?  They got a rework in i24 and a bunch of them are actually somewhat threatening at the level they're fought.  Bosses inflict -ToHit (and you're forced to fight a few during Shauna Stockwell's arc) and i'm sure everyone's got a story about Veles and his cheap summoning of his Grave Knight after he's beaten.  Also Chernebolg is basically a reskinned Keres from the Talons.

 

One thing you should mention about Resistance, the ones you fight in Maria Jenkin's story arcs are also protected from control effects, requiring multiple applications to stop them.  So you can't lock them down before they chew up your armor with their assault rifles.

 

Some other groups to consider:

- UPA (only encountered in Provost Marchand/The Major's arcs), the remnants of the Resistance, as well as IDF/DUST defectors.  Some of their unique mobs are nasty, but you also have to deal with Heavy Troopers/Rangers and DUST Rangers alongside Resistance dudes.  Not fun.

- First Ward.  Most things in First Ward are just awful to fight.  DUST are a step up from Praetorian Police, Apparitions can Fear and cut your damage, Awakened are pure evil Psi mobs (they get worse in Mr. G's arc in Marital).  Carnival are ok though.  Also pre-incarnate Talons of Vengance, which aren't so bad here.

- Night Ward.  The Dredges, good lord I hate them.  They hit you with -ToHit, they through Haunts and Shadow Beasts at you, and they're not fun.  Also the Black Knights, with minions that spam taunt preventing you from targeting anything meaningful.  Animus Arcana and Spirit Stalkers are ok, Spirit Stalkers have fears though, and Animus Arcana are weird; one of them tends to use Absorb Pain on you.

- Vanguard.  Full stop.  They have ridiculously high perception and aggro range, strong resistances to most damage including psi, they will rip your defense and resistance to shreds and the bosses can impart a massive -50 Max End debuff on you that persists for 10 minutes and even death won't fix it, only otherwise removed by a power that costs 50 Vanguard Merits (for 5 uses).  If you do Mr. G's story arc before level 35 you have no way to remove the debuff and you are forced to let it run out.  They are hands down one of the worst mobs in the game to fight, with the only saving grace against them being the Claws Rangers can be immobilized beyond their short ranged attacks (they use Focus and Shockwave on you, which are very short ranged).  Also, thankfully, you only ever fight them in Gaussian's and Mr. G's arcs, as well as the one Elite Boss that's part of Raminel's arc.

- Longbow.  They've never been fun.  A number of their bosses are mean, some of them can self rez, Nullifiers will eat your resistance in large groups (multiple sonic grenades), they now have a Heal/Bubbler thanks to adding Clockwork Menders, and so many of them have assault rifles you may as well just not have any defense based armor going up against them.

- The Family.  Not a terrible group, but they've been expanded to be at pretty much every level.  They're still mostly conventional weapons, but at higher levels you get the bosses with Gravity powers.  In the rare cases you fight them beyond level 40 they're now armed with Beam Rifles and Resistance weapons, and the bosses can use Titan Weapons and Time Manipulation heals (you'll only really see this if you do Mr. G's arc past 40).

- Crey.  Can be nasty but are mostly just slow kills.  Crey Tanks, Juggernauts and Protectors have very high resistances to all but Psi, and are also fast.  Paragon Protectors are flat out annoying, especially the ones using Moment of Glory and Elude.  At level 48 and up, every single mob is a Crey Tank or Paragon Protector, making them a huge slog to fight.

- Rikti.  More annoying than anything but can still be dangerous.  Most of their attacks stun, armored Rikti have high resistance to most damage, many of them deal Psi damage.  Drones have high accuracy and high defense to all but ranged AoEs and tend to spawn in large groups.  Guardians pretty much ensure every Rikti you fight has Accelerate Metabolism up.  At least they give more experience then most mobs.

- Mooks.  They're kind of a joke.  A low level Family knockoff you'll only really find in Port Oakes.  They do most everything the Family already do, though their lieutenants love to run away before shooting at you with their sniper rifles.

- Snakes.  Fairly lame.  They do toxic damage which might be tricky to resist early.  The higher ups can also self-heal, use Psi controls, and cut you down with broadswords.  Not a terrible threat, but can be a nuisance early game.

- Goldbrickers.  Another joke that you'll only find in Cap.  They all have Sonic Rifles to eat your resistances but otherwise not terribly challenging.  They also all have jetpacks and love to fly away so bring a gun.

 

 

Thats why i'll have to start doing more mission archs, to many times I get in a team I don't see them doing nothing but council, which is easy to see since they are by far one of the weakest groups in the game.  Many players probably never fought even most the groups I mentioned.  I also realize my oversight of Crey, Rikti, Longbow and Skulls, as well as the mobs in First Ward, which I expect to be difficult, though I wonder if the Awakened might be exagerated, many sets do deal with psionics, though it is like to give them a higher tier.

 

Vanguard look from what people describe a lot like Ralaruu or Banished Pantheon, wide ability variety.  I'm not sure about the special debuff, largely due to it having a hard counter.  A hard counter 'will' drop somethings threat significantly, the lack there-of is a major qualifier for how dangerous it really is, as well as the frequency it's encountered, which makes a big difference.  This is why I only put Malta Operatives in Tier A, they have some especially potent controls, but they are not as frequent as you'd think.  Combined with Sappers being very fragile it's not very common to be struck by them if you know what your doing.

 

I'll try to find time since I will have it after work today to take a look at Goldbrickers.  I think also Vanguard and Longbow, though i'll make sure I have the counters to the one ability and look it over, but I will consider the counters, which is a factor for how I am tiering the enemies.

 

Remember though it's my opinion in there.

[ZorkNemesis]

Awakened in First Ward aren't as bad, it's the ones you face in Mr. G's arc that really suck.  In addition to Psi attacks, they Fear/Confuse you just for being too close to them, Subjugaters call in multiple extra mobs, a couple of them are capable of healing others and a lot of them just seem to hit really hard.  Even on characters with decent Psi resists I had trouble fighting them at times.

[Grindingsucks]

@LaughingAlex  This is pretty darn good.  But...

 

1) Freakshow are more challenging than Skyraiders.  The only thing Skyraiders have going for them are the Engineers. You target them first, take out the engineers, the rest is just mopping up.  Freaks are tough, inflict a lot of damage, drain energy, and you often have to kill them twice.  Freaks are Tier "C".  Skyraiders are tier "D".

 

2) I would also swap Malta and Tsoo.  It's true- you can deal with Malta by targetting their special operatives just as you do the Skyraider Engineers and Cimms Surgeons.  But they've got a lot of nasty customers and teams seldom coordinate well enough to take out all the threats in a timely fashion.  And if those sappers manage to get off even ONE shot on you... hoo boy. 

 

The most annoying thing about Tsoo are caltrops and Sorcerers.  Sorcerers are easily dealt with using combat teleport to stick hard and run them down.  They have good fighters and do make for an enjoyable fight, but I don't find them at all as nasty as Malta.

 

3) Arachnos- particularly at higher levels, I would place them at Tier "S".  Really, I can defeat twice as many Tsoo at almost any level, compared with the same number of Arachnos (assuming we are talking raw force AT's and not force multipliers like controllers/defenders).

 

4) Rularuu suck if I'm running a defense heavy armor set (SR/Ninjitsu/Etc).  Otherwise, I can pretty much kill them with impunity.  I think they're regarded as dangerous b/c power creep has allowed almost every AT to easily softcap defense and players are overly reliant on that.  JMO here.

 

5)  Carnival of Shadows-  Yeah... GD, I hate these guys.  It's those ****ing illusionists.  The way to deal is to target and take them out quickly, but it's more challenging to do because of getting the timing of that phase power down, so you know when to strike so that your attacks don't whiff.

 

And yeah... those Council War Wolves.  They can do a lot of damage, but they are pretty craven when you start to hit back.  They're also weirdly vulnerable to knockdown, I've noticed.

[Lazarillo]

I think there's a need, in some cases, to differentiate between annoyance factor, and "difficulty" factor.  For example, like, Nemesis are a joke in terms of difficulty, but stacking Vengeance and PFFs mean they take forever to actually put down.  But that's not really difficulty because it's not like they stand any chance of doing anything dangerous to the player, either.  Knives of Vengeance, ironically, are kinda the same, since pretty much all of their LTs and above can pop "godmode" powers, it feels like.  Tsoo, kinda similar.  The Sorcerers are tough at low levels, but after that, they're mostly not a threat, just a "might as well afk for a minute because you've been slowed so much you can't move to the next mob anyway".

 

On the other hand, you have Cimerorans, who you lowballed for being "brute force", but they have a lot of "brute force", to the point that they can and will ruin your day pretty much the moment you underestimate how big those damage numbers can roll.  Arachnos and IDF are both pack a dangerous punch, just because of how bad they can debuff you, and how quickly those debuffs cascade with each other.  Once the first one hits, you can be dead in 10 seconds flat.

[KaizenSoze]

Circle of Thorns are weirdly more dangerous below 40 because of the the succubi. I have seen multiple sudden deaths because a succubus confused a strong AOE player.

 

Devouring Earth should be B or C. If you don't take out their buffs, they will wreck you.

 

Tuatha de Dannan are C tier, they hit like trucks, but that's it.

 

I think trolls should be one tier higher. The bosses and lts hit like trucks at the level you first encounter them.

 

Talons of Vengeance are A tier, they have nasty debuffs. The only reason they don't seem nastier is because you are usually fighting at +1, not +3. Due to incarnate level shifts. 

[Grindingsucks]

@RMS33 They're one of the cooler looking mobs and, I agree, it would be neat if they could get an upgrade.  😎👍